Investing in comics.

[Rob]

just another negative person on these forums, i can't take much more of this!

 

There is a difference between a negative person, and a fiscally conservative person. This guy, like me and many others, is just offering a warning about what he thinks could happen to the market. It's not positive or negative. Actually, if the market really does crash, and you heed his warning and sell before the decline, you can see it as positive. If I could go back in time before the tech stock crash, I would view any prophetic warning as positive information.

 

Just like the "roaring 20's" and the depression that followed, and the tech boom of the 90's and the slump we're in now, it's possible (and highly probable) that this ride of increasing, inflated, overvalued prices of comics could see the same fate. Looking back at 1999 in hindsight, I ask myself, "Why couldn't we see a market adjustment coming?" Stock prices were going through the roof, and all we could think about was "How high can it go?" Our own greed kept us from seeing what we didn't want to think about.

 

The same thing applies here. Some people have paid multiples of guide for ultra-high grade books, hoping it'll pay off. So I can see how such a person could get angry at people who are more realistic about the CGC craze. But the statement itself is only negative or positive in relation to whether you are the ones hoping to cash in on this hobby boom. Great risk results in great reward. If it pays off for you, great! But the signs of a decline are too great for me to take that risk.

 

And calling someone here a insufficiently_thoughtful_person is completely unacceptable. Unlike most internet boards, this is an intelligent forum to share differing opinions in this hobby we all love.

[musicmeta]

just another negative person on these forums, i can't take much more of this!

 

There is a difference between a negative person, and a fiscally conservative person. This guy, like me and many others, is just offering a warning about what he thinks could happen to the market. It's not positive or negative. Actually, if the market really does crash, and you heed his warning and sell before the decline, you can see it as positive. If I could go back in time before the tech stock crash, I would view any prophetic warning as positive information.

 

Just like the "roaring 20's" and the depression that followed, and the tech boom of the 90's and the slump we're in now, it's possible (and highly probable) that this ride of increasing, inflated, overvalued prices of comics could see the same fate. Looking back at 1999 in hindsight, I ask myself, "Why couldn't we see a market adjustment coming?" Stock prices were going through the roof, and all we could think about was "How high can it go?" Our own greed kept us from seeing what we didn't want to think about.

 

The same thing applies here. Some people have paid multiples of guide for ultra-high grade books, hoping it'll pay off. So I can see how such a person could get angry at people who are more realistic about the CGC craze. But the statement itself is only negative or positive in relation to whether you are the ones hoping to cash in on this hobby boom. Great risk results in great reward. If it pays off for you, great! But the signs of a decline are too great for me to take that risk.

 

And calling someone here a insufficiently_thoughtful_person is completely unacceptable. Unlike most internet boards, this is an intelligent forum to share differing opinions in this hobby we all love.

 

Well stated. I tend to agree that there is definitely going to be some sort of correction in the world of comic books. I don't think it will be as bad as some folks predict but I don't think it's going to be good either.

 

 

[spideyfan-migration]

You are probably a JC shill ID.

 

Trust me Mushroom Boy, I'm not the only one smart enough to see the CGC/EBay spike for what it truly is, but I guess anyone who isn't Rah-Rah on the market is a shill?

 

You guys really need to get out more, and understand that most of the general public insufficiently_thoughtful_person investors have already left, and it's turning into a "Pitch Black-like" cannibal-fest amongst those that remain.

 

I think some of the speculators/investors have left, but most will probably try to get next summer prior to the hype on the ASM movie. Now when ASM 3, Daredevil 3, X-men 6 start showing up in the theatres, that is when prices will really fall.

 

Once again, I’m not saying prices will go down to zero overnight. I’m just saying that comics as an investment has probably peaked and will trend downwards over the next few decades. Of course, there are exceptions like Action 1, Detective 27, etc….

 

[joe_collector]

Once again, I’m not saying prices will go down to zero overnight. I’m just saying that comics as an investment has probably peaked and will trend downwards over the next few decades.

 

That's the kind of "black and white" comparison that many (like banner and his boyz) like to advocate. Either comics are ultra-valuable or they're kindling.

 

I know they don't actually think in these bizarre terms (or at least I hope so) and realize that any crash is relative to the money being spent before the crash. If an ASM #1 CGC 9.4 drops 60%, that's a serious dent to the sucker who bought high, but banner would be in here stating that it's still "a pretty good return if you bought it off the newstand".

 

Well DUH!

 

I'm talking about the guy who lost $30K on the transaction.

[spideyfan-migration]

What happened to reading a comic book, and enjoying the story or art???

 

Isn't that what a comic book is supposed to provide? Reading enjoyment?

 

Say what you will about investing, or the supposed market collapse, but if you buy your books to read, who cares???

 

There will always be comic books, whether the CGC market crumbles or not.

 

That’s true. There will always be comics, regardless of whether the CGC market crumbles or not.

 

And part of the appeal of comics is definitely the reading and the artwork.

 

I disagree that most collectors don’t care about prices. If people really believed that, prices would not be where they are today. Would you honestly pay $____ for a book if you thought prices were not going to hold or go higher? I’m not talking about the new issues that you can get for cover, but rather those with prices in the hundreds and thousands of dollars.

 

[joe_collector]

Would you honestly pay $____ for a book if you thought prices were not going to hold or go higher?

 

I only buy comics that have an intrinsic value to me personally, and would gladly own regardless of their eventual value. That way it's a win-win.

 

The problem arises when too many saps pay big bucks for something that holds no meaning or inherent value, thus skewing back issue prices and setting the stage for a melt-down.

[spideyfan-migration]

just another negative person on these forums, i can't take much more of this!

 

There is a difference between a negative person, and a fiscally conservative person. This guy, like me and many others, is just offering a warning about what he thinks could happen to the market. It's not positive or negative. Actually, if the market really does crash, and you heed his warning and sell before the decline, you can see it as positive. If I could go back in time before the tech stock crash, I would view any prophetic warning as positive information.

 

Just like the "roaring 20's" and the depression that followed, and the tech boom of the 90's and the slump we're in now, it's possible (and highly probable) that this ride of increasing, inflated, overvalued prices of comics could see the same fate. Looking back at 1999 in hindsight, I ask myself, "Why couldn't we see a market adjustment coming?" Stock prices were going through the roof, and all we could think about was "How high can it go?" Our own greed kept us from seeing what we didn't want to think about.

 

The same thing applies here. Some people have paid multiples of guide for ultra-high grade books, hoping it'll pay off. So I can see how such a person could get angry at people who are more realistic about the CGC craze. But the statement itself is only negative or positive in relation to whether you are the ones hoping to cash in on this hobby boom. Great risk results in great reward. If it pays off for you, great! But the signs of a decline are too great for me to take that risk.

 

And calling someone here a insufficiently_thoughtful_person is completely unacceptable. Unlike most internet boards, this is an intelligent forum to share differing opinions in this hobby we all love.

 

Rob.

 

Exactly, you’re right. When things are moving too fast, and we asking excitedly waiting and asking to see ‘how much higher can it go’, that is when you should be most concern as an investor.

 

Now, hindsight is everything. But based upon what we’ve seen in the collectibles markets and the general stock market, the outcome seems predictable.

 

[AlexH]

I disagree that most collectors don’t care about prices. If people really believed that, prices would not be where they are today. Would you honestly pay $____ for a book if you thought prices were not going to hold or go higher? I’m not talking about the new issues that you can get for cover, but rather those with prices in the hundreds and thousands of dollars.

Uhh, I don't recall saying that collectors don't care about prices. What I said was, if you buy a book to read, then what does it matter if the market collapses or not??

 

As for books in the hunderds of thousands of dollars, well...I can't say I have very much experience with this. I've never spent more than $100 on any one book. You take your chances when you spend $100,000 no matter what you buy. Whether it is a house, or on the stock market, or investing in your own business. Nothing is without risk nowadays.

 

Sure, you could easily make an argument for the comic market eventually going down. It is fairly cyclical, just like the stock market. But nobody can say when, if, or how long it will last (and yes, I realize you didn't say anything to that effect).

 

And sure, if you say something (like the comic market is crashing) long enough, eventually it just might come true. And then the discussion starts about when the market will bounce back. GEEZ!!! Enjoy the present. No one can predict the future.

 

And Spideyfan, I do appreciate your comments. It seems to have brought out the talkative side in me, as I usually don't say this much.

[sfilosa]

In general, the comic market doesn't CRASH per se, it becomes dormant. The CRASH occurs on the highly speculative modern material that is referred to aS "RARE" but in essence is very common (5,000 copies in NM of a 10,000 print run is still pretty common in my opinion).

 

During a dormant period, people don't buy as much Silver-Age and Golden-Age and therefore there are not as many sales and little to no price increases. This keeps the investors away and is the best time for true collectors to buy the books they want. Of course, because prices aren't increasing it becomes harder to find the books you want as people don't want to sell (since they aren't making any profit). A catch-22 until, prices increase again.

 

As a side note, books in VF or below appear to have been in a dormant period for over a decade.

 

Where we are in the cycle is really anyones guess. What is really ISN"T a guess is that THERE IS A CYCLE.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[garthgantu]

I think it's a bit strange for a first post to be so "inflammatory" - at least in the eyes of many posters here... but maybe SpideyFan didn't realize this when he couched his comments as he did.

 

And I think that many of us who "reside" on these boards DO view comics as a long-term investment, and reasonably so. When I priced my collection in 1983, it was worth about $2,000. When I next priced it, in 1999 (without adding to it in the interim), it was valued at $25,000. Since then, I've purchased maybe 1,000 additional comics. I won't care if they collectively go down in value next year, or even over the next several years. But I'm confident that in 2020, they'll be worth considerably more than today.

 

In the meantime, I enjoy reading many of them, and enjoy owning all of them.

 

Does a collector of fine art have to look at all his/her paintings every day to enjoy them, or be considered something other than a speculator or investor? I don't think so.

 

I also don't think it's fair to say that "books in below VF aren't moving, price-wise." Again, if you're looking at their prices from month-to-month or perhaps even from one year to the next, their prices may only move modestly. But that Tracy #10 in VG that's now valued at $44 in the OS Guide was probably a $5 book 10 years ago. (Now, selling it for $44 is another matter... but even if you only realize 1/3 of guide price, that might represent a 200% return on your $5 investment in 1993 or whenever...)

[drbanner]

That's the kind of "black and white" comparison that many (like banner and his boyz) like to advocate. Either comics are ultra-valuable or they're kindling...banner would be in here stating that it's still "a pretty good return if you bought it off the newstand".

 

I think you're confused about me CI/tinkerer/JC.

 

I posted on this board long before you were a gleam in CGC's eye that ultra-high grade CGC books were reaching a glass ceiling, the price of comic books in today's market relative to the cost of the staples of life (food/gas/shelter) was pricing them out of the collectible/sensible range for most collectors, and that I was personally being driven from being a buyer to being a seller due to the prices. I've never hyped CGC books as investment vehicles, and never denied that prices on common junk plummeted from the crazy peaks of last year.

 

But then again, I don't question the motivation of CGC buyers, and while there are certainly some "investors" that may not have any emotional attachment to the book in the plastic case, I know that most collectors that buy high grade CGC books for "investment" also buy them because they love 'em and want the best possible specimen they can afford. I mean after all, who on this board wouldn't want to own that 9.8 Hulk 181 or a 9.4 Spidey 14? I envy those books!

 

Simply put, I don't feel it's necessary, productive, or really called for for you to relentlessly spew forth your litany of bitterness and hatred towards CGC/Overstreet/Ebay/Paypal/Wizard/movies/etc.,. ad infinitum. In fact, it's rather disgusting. No, I think Old Guy said it best - "I don't dislike you because you're "bad for business", I dislike you because you're a ."

[joe_collector]

I mean after all, who on this board wouldn't want to own that 9.8 Hulk 181 or a 9.4 Spidey 14? I envy those books!

 

Sorry banner, but you lead one seriously uneventful life. I mean that seriously.

[joe_collector]

I think you're confused about me CI/tinkerer/JC

 

I'm confused? Who the heck is tinkerer and why is he between my two screen names, you pinhead?

[COI]

Post deleted, since this thread is becoming a little cat-fight.

[drbanner]

Sorry banner, but you lead one seriously uneventful life.

 

You know nothing about my life...I sure wish I had those books, but I wouldn't trade my life for yours, theirs, or anyone else's for that matter.

 

"Hi, I'm CI and since I'm an expert on it, let me tell you all about banner's life... "

[murph0]

hey look it's the one millioneth thread about investing in comics..weird, everyone has made the exact same responses to this one as they have to all the other ones. If we're this low on topics, maybe we should start a thread about people's favorite eBay seller again..

 

Brian

[spideyfan-migration]

I think it's a bit strange for a first post to be so "inflammatory" - at least in the eyes of many posters here... but maybe SpideyFan didn't realize this when he couched his comments as he did.

 

And I think that many of us who "reside" on these boards DO view comics as a long-term investment, and reasonably so. When I priced my collection in 1983, it was worth about $2,000. When I next priced it, in 1999 (without adding to it in the interim), it was valued at $25,000. Since then, I've purchased maybe 1,000 additional comics. I won't care if they collectively go down in value next year, or even over the next several years. But I'm confident that in 2020, they'll be worth considerably more than today.

 

In the meantime, I enjoy reading many of them, and enjoy owning all of them.

 

Does a collector of fine art have to look at all his/her paintings every day to enjoy them, or be considered something other than a speculator or investor? I don't think so.

 

I also don't think it's fair to say that "books in below VF aren't moving, price-wise." Again, if you're looking at their prices from month-to-month or perhaps even from one year to the next, their prices may only move modestly. But that Tracy #10 in VG that's now valued at $44 in the OS Guide was probably a $5 book 10 years ago. (Now, selling it for $44 is another matter... but even if you only realize 1/3 of guide price, that might represent a 200% return on your $5 investment in 1993 or whenever...)

 

Sorry everyone if my posts on this matter seem inflammatory. My apologies. Guess I got caught in the investing/collecting/crash/correction aspect of things from all the previous threads. Just thought I’d throw in my two cents.

 

I respect everyone’s opinion here. They may differ, of course. That is why for any particular comic there is usually a buyer and a seller.

 

I’m just offering an opinion on where the investing comic market may be headed. This is outside of the reading and other intangible benefits you get from a comic. I personally collect ASM (first series), Fantastic Four, Transformers, and Conan. But there is for me a clear line between collecting & investing in comics. Beyond a certain level, play money becomes real money!

 

Other than certain keys, what will propel the comic market as an investment forward, once the ‘factors’ (ie. Ebay, collecting base, CGC, etc.) that have bought prices to this level becomes old or goes away?

 

 

[dam60]

Other than certain keys, what will propel the comic market as an investment forward, once the ‘factors’ (ie. Ebay, collecting base, CGC, etc.) that have bought prices to this level becomes old or goes away?

 

IMO, you need to expand readership. That will create a future market for these comic books and will inspire the next generation of collectors. IMO, this is the biggest challenge of the entire industry.

 

DAM

 

[AlexH]

Other than certain keys, what will propel the comic market as an investment forward, once the ‘factors’ (ie. Ebay, collecting base, CGC, etc.) that have bought prices to this level becomes old or goes away?

 

IMO, you need to expand readership. That will create a future market for these comic books and will inspire the next generation of collectors. IMO, this is the biggest challenge of the entire industry.

 

DAM

*HI-JACK ALERT*

 

I couldn't agree more. It is important to put out books that capture a new audience every once in a while. With Marvel and DC putting out books that are 10 cents or a quarter, they may expand their readership. And I like that idea,

 

Here is a thought for people out there:

 

For the last 2 Halloweens, I gave out comic books instead of just candy. Last year I bought 100 Fantastic Fours (the 9 cent one), and gave those away with a chocolate bar, and the kids just loved it. It doesn't have to be an important book, or an expensive one, as long as the kids read it and maybe become a fan of the book. That is important.

 

Just a thought...

[dam60]

Here is a thought for people out there:

 

For the last 2 Halloweens, I gave out comic books instead of just candy. Last year I bought 100 Fantastic Fours (the 9 cent one), and gave those away with a chocolate bar, and the kids just loved it. It doesn't have to be an important book, or an expensive one, as long as the kids read it and maybe become a fan of the book. That is important.

 

Just a thought...

 

Great idea - I know that people talked about doing this in CBG around Halloween time last year and everyone had some great results! No one comes trick or treating to my apartment, but I want to get 100 copies of one of these 10 centers (preferably Batman!) or 100 FCBD books and get my parents to give them out this year. It is healthier than chocholate!

 

DAM