Bronze CGC values could be destroyed by this warehouse find

[joe_collector]

The point here is, people can blabber on and on about how common BA books are and how many untold warehouse stashes and pristine runs are sitting in old-time collectors closets, but if the books aren't on the market, there might as well be a million of 'em stashed away, if not zero.

 

Sure, if you're only talking about TODAY, then you are right.

 

But I am assuming there are people who will hold their books for years to come, and that just might be influenced by an influx of books between now and then.

[AussieRuss]

This argument appears to be heading in a few different directions.

 

I agree with the statement that many of these book are more common than a lot people may have originaly thought. I don't understand why they have been thought of as rare unless small print runs are known of or large amounts were destroyed before release to the public.

 

The flip side of this coversation leads back to the opening post in this thread.

Just because many more warehouses may be uncovered in the future, we are not guaranteed an influx of CGC 9.8 copies.

 

After all, the original post in this thread was all about CGC 9.8 copies being uncovered by the hundreds. It was not about these books in general.

 

Russ

[ronm3-migration]

On the topic of Bronze Age scarcity regarding DC's there are tons of collectors that have Bronze Age collections that dont send the books into CGC. All you have to do the next time you work a show is speak to the people buying your books and ask them what their collections consist of. Everytime I help Gus at a show I interview alot of people buying books. I like to do that just to get an idea of what is out there.

This forum is so tiny. It is like a grain of sand on a beach. At the San Diego show ask people what their collections consist of and you will see how much Bronze Age books as well as Silver have yet to be graded.

[Aman619]

very true. but - - out of all the guys who proudly claim to have complete NM runs at home, only one in whatever really do. I was one of them. Im not alone. Don Rosa on the other hand is one of the guys who DID have them all in grade.

 

They exist... plus the warehouses too. But I dont believe all the confident claims I hear until I see their NM runs with my own eyes, or at least til they tell me they have examined them in the last couple years with their newfangled CGC grading specs on! The books sure look diferent when every back cover ding and mark counts aginst them. Not to mention pizza and fingerprint stains on those once-read-and-carefully-stored copies.

[awe4one]

If I have the same books, then the PQ doesn't always match up to the nice glossiness of the covers and other warehousiness. Off-White/White, maybe. Don't remember seeing white pagers when flipping through, and some are more like just OW.

 

We must be talking about different collections then. When the seller started submitting to CGC, the majority of the slabs consistently came back back with White Pages...

 

Jim

[Guest]

They exist... plus the warehouses too. But I dont believe all the confident claims I hear until I see their NM runs with my own eyes, or at least til they tell me they have examined them in the last couple years with their newfangled CGC grading specs on! The books sure look diferent when every back cover ding and mark counts aginst them. Not to mention pizza and fingerprint stains on those once-read-and-carefully-stored copies.

 

That about sum's it up really. Yes we all know of grading that is a little off, sometimes even a lot off. But overall what it takes to score a 9.4, a 9.6 or even 9.8 is something extraordinary!

I know of a very experienced dealer's who collected pure high grade material pre CGC, and still even their run's score eratic grades at best.

Another long time dealer here in the UK now had many multiple copies of giant x-men #1, FF #48. Typically saving the absolute cream for last. In the course of 15 years he had over 2 dozen hign grade copies of these books pass through his hands, and each time he kept the best for himself...naturally. And his hand-on-heart best of best FF #48 came back a 9.6. So it shows even those with the keys to the candy store can't do it, what makes you think joe bloggs with his single maybe double copies is going to acheive grade wise?

[the blob]

"The books sure look diferent when every back cover ding and mark counts aginst them. Not to mention pizza and fingerprint stains on those once-read-and-carefully-stored copies."

 

Exactly. I have some 80s "what the heck was I thinking" speculation purchases my old LCS gave me when he closed up shop. Bundles still in their paper wrapping bands or whatever of one of the early Thor Simonson issues and a few others. He had then sitting in a long boxes, waiting for the day when he might be able to sell them. Anyway, they ain't all pristine. I seriously wonder if I can pull one 9.8 out of any of those bundles and these are 1980s books.

[joe_collector]

very true. but - - out of all the guys who proudly claim to have complete NM runs at home, only one in whatever really do.

 

Of course, and it's the same for everyone. But you seems to be stating that all these collectors who claim to have NM runs, actually have NO NM COMICS??

 

It's far more likely that collectors believe they have full NM runs, and when they actually look at them, find 20% NM+ or better, 30% NM- to NM, and 50% in the VF/NM or lower range. That's still a ton of NM or better books.

 

But to state that average high-grade collectors are all sitting on VG's is just plain stupid.

[joe_collector]

And his hand-on-heart best of best FF #48 came back a 9.6. So it shows even those with the keys to the candy store can't do it

 

Do you know what a CGC 9.6 is? A 9.8 a month before or a month after. CGC's grading criteria changes constantly, and that's not even getting into the areas of a grading curve, rampant pressing or other tawdry subjects.

 

To state that someone receiving a CGC 9.6 is deemed a "failure" is to not understand what is really going on.

[Silver Surfer]

No Avengers #164-166, or Hulk #131-#132, etc in that lot so most of it is

[jediknight]

I ain't read the whole thread but Doug Sulipa's Overstreet article stands out. It is possible that these warehouse comics were stored improperly and that he has f/vf's of each of these issues. You gotta know that if collectables really has these in 9.8, he'll cgc 'em quicker than you can say Attack of the Watemelons. Only a frikkin' fool would think otherwise.

[ronm3-migration]

I ain't read the whole thread but Doug Sulipa's Overstreet article stands out. It is possible that these warehouse comics were stored improperly and that he has f/vf's of each of these issues. You gotta know that if collectables really has these in 9.8, he'll cgc 'em quicker than you can say Attack of the Watemelons. Only a frikkin' fool would think otherwise.

 

If everyone used CGC you would have to wait a year to get a book back.

There are plenty of people sitting on raw high grade books that they havent sent in to get graded yet.

There are plenty on here.

The majority of books sent in to CGC are by dealers not collectors.

[jduran1]

BFdeal............25,000 comics is nothing. When you talk about every bronze age book print run times the number of bronze age books published divided by 25,000 it equals .2778 percent. I will round up to .30 or one third of a percent.

 

What I want to know is how neat stuff keeps finding this stuff. What is his secret that is the question. Anyone know why empty warehouses call him on the phone.

thx.

[sterlingcomics]

I ain't read the whole thread but Doug Sulipa's Overstreet article stands out. It is possible that these warehouse comics were stored improperly and that he has f/vf's of each of these issues. You gotta know that if collectables really has these in 9.8, he'll cgc 'em quicker than you can say Attack of the Watemelons. Only a frikkin' fool would think otherwise.

 

If everyone used CGC you would have to wait a year to get a book back.

There are plenty of people sitting on raw high grade books that they havent sent in to get graded yet.

There are plenty on here.

The majority of books sent in to CGC are by dealers not collectors.

 

Count me in the minority, then.

[the blob]

true, 25,000 isn't so much. a lot of people here probably have collections that large, and given the anality, probably in decent shape too

[Aman619]

And his hand-on-heart best of best FF #48 came back a 9.6. So it shows even those with the keys to the candy store can't do it

 

Do you know what a CGC 9.6 is? A 9.8 a month before or a month after. CGC's grading criteria changes constantly, and that's not even getting into the areas of a grading curve, rampant pressing or other tawdry subjects.

 

To state that someone receiving a CGC 9.6 is deemed a "failure" is to not understand what is really going on.

 

one post says they are common as toast (20% of all books in collections!).

Now you say a 9.6 is a sweet to have. Make up your mind

[Comicdey]

true, 25,000 isn't so much. a lot of people here probably have collections that large, and given the anality, probably in decent shape too

[mosconi]

I think 6 years later the Census has become a great indicator of scarcity, and I've seen books that were on my want list 6 years ago remain on my want list and surprise surprise - the census has provided an independent confirmation that indeed, some of these books (non-key books in the middle of a huge run of Hulk, FF, etc.,.) are indeed scarcer than other non-key books surrounding them. The whole scarcity of BA DC's vs. Marvels debate has also been confirmed by the census - when 15 and 20-cent slabbed 9.4+ DC's are selling for higher prices than Marvels, you know those puppies are tough!!

 

If I were a speculator and investor at this point, my money would be firmly embedded in early BA & Silver DC books (pre-direct market) just because I love all those cool Adams covers. Every warehouse find notes the insane quantities of BA Marvels available but I have yet to see a warehouse discovery noting any early DC books pre-1972/73. Even the MH2 discovery had no mention of DC's from this period (the oldest I believe were some Wrightson Swamp Thing's). I'm sure eventually something may surface but right know the CGC numbers indicate a wide discrepancy between DC's and Marvel's from this time period. Has anyone ever seen an early DC Adams issue with a MH2 certificate???

[joe_collector]

one post says they are common as toast (20% of all books in collections!).

Now you say a 9.6 is a sweet to have. Make up your mind

 

Wow, you have a serious reading disorder.

 

This thread is about BRONZE AGE WAREHOUSE FINDS and COLLECTIONS in the BRONZE AGE FORUM, which is where the first comment you state comes from.

 

The second part is in reply to a SILVER AGE KEY in CGC 9.6, and has NOTHING to do with my previous statement concerning BRONZE AGE COMICS.

 

If that's not clear, go see a doctor you senile old fool.

[joe_collector]

If I were a speculator and investor at this point, my money would be firmly embedded in early BA & Silver DC books

 

What? If you were a SMART speculator, you'd forget all about over-priced CGC comics and start nosing around for warehouse/store/etc. finds of various 1980's paraphernalia like games, action figures, carts, cards, etc. that are bound to be extremely popular in the next 5-10 years.

 

Speculators should understand they missed the boat on comics, and just accept it and move on.