Fantastic Four pricing variants

[EwanUK]

Guys, can you help - know nothing about Marvel price variants... what's the difference betwen these two? Is one a Whitman? Which is the regular? Any price difference? thanks

 

 

[Spider-Variant]

Here is a good link. I think the new terminology is Marvel Direct Edition.

 

 

Marvel Direct Editions

[Spider-Variant]

Here is some updated discussion on these.

 

A little too long for me to digest through.

 

 

More Marvel Direct Edition discussion

[shadroch]

Simple rule of thumb-

UPC code-sold thru newstand type distribution,returnable.

Diamond,no upc-sold direct to comic shops/distributors as non-returnable.

Both are 1st printings.

[joe_collector]

Since this is a 1978 comic, it's a Whitman edition.

[Spider-Variant]

Since this is a 1978 comic, it's a Whitman edition.

 

Joe

 

Are you saying Whitman because eventually Marvel re-shaped their diamond and begin putting these non-returns in comic book shops? So early diamonds Whitman / later diamonds comic book stores

 

or

 

Are you saying that you can definitely tell this was a Whitman and not Seagate?

Essential the second link says that Whitman was not the only distributor of these. Hence, the new focus on calling these Marvel Direct Editions and not Whitmans.

[shadroch]

There is no such thing as a Whitman edition of a regular Marvel Comic.

[joe_collector]

Are you saying Whitman because eventually Marvel re-shaped their diamond and begin putting these non-returns in comic book shops?

 

I am saying that the different Direct Market covers did not exist in 1978, so it has to be a Whitman. The only "Diamond covers" that are even in dispute are in the early 1980's, where they *might* be either one due to potential "test markets" (like price variants) for these new Direct Market covers.

 

I think we covered this in-dpeth and it was 1983 or 1984 when Marvel switched over to non-returnable Diamond covers for the Direct Market and there were no "test dealers" before the early-80's.

 

So circa 1978 it's gotta be a Whitman, no question.

[joe_collector]

Essential the second link says that Whitman was not the only distributor of these. Hence, the new focus on calling these Marvel Direct Editions and not Whitmans.

 

That STL thread is filled with BS, and I have talked to DOZENS of old dealers over the years and none have stated they received Diamond Direct Copies as early as 1977-79. None.

 

And to say that ALL the Whitman 3-packs were Dealer rejects is insane, as you can find the EXACT SAME issue combination in pack after pack, and many EBay sellers have unearthed SEALED CASES of the EXACT same issue combinations.

 

Tell me, do you really believe that one of the few comic shops in operation circa 1977 is going to have so many unsold copies (not to mention the free time) that they can collate 3-packs and seal case after case after case of the EXACT SAME COMICS, arranged in EXACTLY the same order?

 

 

And that "this proves they were Diamond copies" Diamond copy of X-Men 118? Well, I've seen it in Whitman 3-packs, consistently in the same place. Amazing but true.

 

Someone seems to have an agenda in making these Whitman 3-pack books "more valuable" and are trying to get OS to break them out in the Guide as definitively "Direct Copies". Who knows, maybe these guys are sitting on a few cases of X-Men 118 and PPSSM 27 3-packs?

[shadroch]

Are you saying Whitman because eventually Marvel re-shaped their diamond and begin putting these non-returns in comic book shops?

 

I am saying that the different Direct Market covers did not exist in 1978, so it has to be a Whitman. The only "Diamond covers" that are even in dispute are in the early 1980's, where they *might* be either one due to potential "test markets" (like price variants) for these new Direct Market covers.

 

I think we covered this in-dpeth and it was 1983 or 1984 when Marvel switched over to non-returnable Diamond covers for the Direct Market and there were no "test dealers" before the early-80's.

 

So circa 1978 it's gotta be a Whitman, no question.

 

Phil Seuling was selling non-returnable Marvels for a few years in 1978.There had to be way of telling a nr book for a returnable book.Direct Market Diamonds were around and controversial long before 1983 in the US.

[joe_collector]

Phil Seuling was selling non-returnable Marvels for a few years in 1978.There had to be way of telling a nr book for a returnable book.Direct Market Diamonds were around and controversial long before 1983 in the US.

 

Then riddle me this:

 

Why are there no complete runs of these "Direct Market" books through the years stated? Why do they only appear for a month or two, then suddenly disappear, and miraculously I might add, those SAME books are found in Whitman multi-packs, yet none of the newstand issues (that comic stores were obviously selling) were present?

 

Hmmm...

[shadroch]

I can't answer that. But it doesn't change the fact that PS was selling Marvel books on a NR basis in the late 70s.Given the history of Marvel being burnt by its distributors,it obvious that a system had to have been in place for Marvel to id which books were returnable or non.

I know next to nothing about Whitman 3-packs. Its a path that never interested me.

What I do know was that direct copies with the diamond shaped logos were appearing long before you give them credit dfor appearing.

Keep in mind,in the mid-late 70s,Seuling was only selling a few thousand copies of most issues.Even most comic stores(few as there were)relied on newstand copies for a good bit of their stocks.My shop in Brockport carried ten copies of the most popular Marvels,and three of the less popular Marvels and DCs. He expected to fully sell out of every copy,then two weeks later he'd get his second batch that was returnable.

[joe_collector]

I can't answer that.

 

I hate to cut out the rest of your message (and I did read it) but this is the key. No one can seem to find anything but random Diamond copies from this era, that appear one month, then might disappear for 6 months to a year.

 

If Marvel wanted the non-returnable comics to be easily distinguishable circa 1977, then why, as even the DC advocates admit, were the vast majority of comics sold in comic stores the newstand versions? Why did Comic X had a Diamond in February, but not again until December? Seems to defeat the entire purpose, no?

 

And no one seems to be able to find all these 1970's "Direct Copies" that were NOT in Whitman 3-packs.

 

Until someone answers those questions satisfactorily, I will continue to believe these 1970's Diamond Editions were targetted for Whitman 3-packs, with a very few sent to "Test Market" comic stores.

[EwanUK]

Thanks for all your comments!

 

Will the fact I bought these in England have a bearing either way?

 

The reasons I'm asking is that I recently bought a copy (with the diamond and blank UPC) in a small collection of old UK "distributor" stock - about 400 comics - though this was the ONLY Marvel in there. The others were predominately Charltons and a few DCs - all from 1975 to 1982 (two copies of Swamp Thing 21 were the latest books).

 

However, what I find strange is that all the copies were CENTS copies - not one UK priced. (e.g. 12p or at least some dual-pricing).

 

Why would UK newstands be getting CENTS copies in the late 70s, early 80s - they wouldn't I'd say - but I reckon there'd only be 4 or 5 comic shops in the entire country at this point. Strange...

 

Were Whitman 3-packs distibuted in England?

[goldust40]

 

Why would UK newstands be getting CENTS copies in the late 70s, early 80s - they wouldn't I'd say - but I reckon there'd only be 4 or 5 comic shops in the entire country at this point.

 

Some cents copies of various Marvel comics made their way to Britain in the 1970s as ballast on ships. They weren't officially distributed, though, but often made their way to newstands.

[cosmic-spider-man]

I find this subject very interesting . I agree with JC on this one in that I believe that at least the fist year or two of these Fat Diamond priced Marvels 1977, 1978 & mabye into 1979 were only sold in those Whitman 3 packs and were distributed to Department stores and 5 & Dime stores and not to comic shops I know I did not see any at comics shops until the 1980's and they had a thinner diamond on them. I also have several of those three packs and I see the same combinations appear in some of them. I would love to hear from comic store owners of that time if any of them carried those early Direct market Marvels but I really think they only started shipping to comic shops when they changed the Diamond from the Fat ones to the Thin ones .

and since I am posting I might well show off my little find of these out of the 50 cent boxes at the Nashville TN. comic show today I think I over paid by 20 cent each .

[joe_collector]

Cosmic, you may have gotten lucky there, and I'll tell you a little aside a dealer once told me:

 

He stated that the early-Direct Market "test market" copies would have had a date on them, while the Whitman Editions would not have. It's logical to understand why this format was used (shelf comics benefit from a date, while it would date pre-packs), and I think you'll notice the pattern in the true Whitman 3-packs.

 

You just might have some very rare comics there.

[shadroch]

JC,

You raise some interesting points,

1)Why were the majority of comics sold in comic stores the newstand variety?

First off,in 1977 there were not all that many comic stores and many of the ones that did exist didn't sell any new comics,only back issues.Secondly, if you did sell new books,unless you lived fairly close to NY,it wasn't worth buying from Phil as the postage ate up your potential profits.

An example-500 30 cent comics from Seagate=$75 plus shipping(I have no idea what shipping would have cost in 1977,but it wasn't free.,lets say $10.)

Your cost is $85. Total sell thru is $150-$85=$65 profit.

ID distribution-500 30 cent comics-your cost =ZERO.If you sell all 500 of them,you make a $$50 profit,with no out of pocket expenses,except for the intial one-time $300 deposit most distributors wanted.ID distributors also provided your racks free of charge,a program Marvel didn't start until the mid-80s.The numbers get much worse if you didn't sell out every NR book.

Second-ordering your comics from Seagate meant laying out the money for books two months before you got them.ID sales were paid for only after you sold the books.Seagate offered terms to select credit worthy clients only after a few months of first paying two months in advance and then COD for awhile.ID accounts were settled monthly,with you having until the month the book was dated to return it or pay for it.

Last-Seagate only carried Marvels,which meant you still had to deal with an ID distributor anyways,and I doubt that bunch would be happy servicing an account that had just withdrawn 75% of its business.

[joe_collector]

But Shad, the point I;m making is that Diamond copies from the late-70's only exist for random issues. There are no copies of the surrounding issues, and none were ever printed. These are also the SAME issues that were in the Whitman 3-packs, which obviously did not follow a monthly schedule.

 

That tells me the "Diamond Direct Copies" were not in effect back then, as otherwise we'd have entire runs of Diamond books from 1977-79, rather than the insanely incredible coincidence of epic proportion that Diamond Direct store copies were ONLY printed for those random books that were also in Whitman 3-packs.

 

And if you believe that BS, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

[Spider-Variant]

But Shad, the point I;m making is that Diamond copies from the late-70's only exist for random issues. There are no copies of the surrounding issues, and none were ever printed. These are also the SAME issues that were in the Whitman 3-packs, which obviously did not follow a monthly schedule.

 

That tells me the "Diamond Direct Copies" were not in effect back then, as otherwise we'd have entire runs of Diamond books from 1977-79, rather than the insanely incredible coincidence of epic proportion that Diamond Direct store copies were ONLY printed for those random books that were also in Whitman 3-packs.

 

And if you believe that BS, then I've got a bridge to sell you.

 

Ok, I must profess my ignorance on this subject, but if I look on Gifflefunk's site, I can see Feb.-Dec. 1977 for the Amazing Spider-Man and then Aug. 1978- Feb. 1979, with three more months between these two runs. These are all the fat diamond ones, or as I have been lead to believe pre-direct sales. So, what I am I missing with the statement these only exist for random issues?