Stocks vs. Comics

[fantastic_four]

Given that the Nasdaq hit 2000 again today and has almost doubled from its lows of the year, I thought I would gloat bump this thread.

 

We appreciate the investment advice, but could do without the gloating...you're like an NBA player going out to a basketball court in a public park, dunking on the amateurs, and then having the gall to talk trash, point, and laugh at how unskilled they are because they only play ball a few hours a week.

[jduran1]

I bought 2 AF 15 NM in 1990 for 600 each. Two Hulk 181's NM for 250 and Iron Fist 14s NM for 20 bucks each and on and on. Liquidity yes, return incredible. Everytime I drive my Benz I think of the NM Silve Age Batmans I sold. I bought 100 Spawn 1s for a buck and sold them for 2 bucks (100 % return in two years) Stocks are ok. Volume baby on moderns and only buy keys.

[UnrulyAppendage]

I just hope people on this board collect comics for fun. Spending investment money on comics is not a smart idea. It is fun to buy and sell on ebay and some people do make good money doing it. However, if you buying comics so that Jr. can go to college or pass something off to the next generation, then your money would be better elsewhere.

 

Buying individual stocks is almost as dangerous. There are stories of those that made good choices and cashed in, and there are stories of those that bought the hot stock and lost everything. Any form of investment is a risk, but common investments among self-made millionares are real estate and mutual funds. There are more stories of those guys being succesfull than those that bought comics as investments.

[joe_collector]

I bought 2 AF 15 NM in 1990 for 600 each. Two Hulk 181's NM for 250 and Iron Fist 14s NM for 20 bucks each and on and on. Liquidity yes, return incredible. Everytime I drive my Benz I think of the NM Silve Age Batmans I sold.

 

Yep, and you are a definite investor, who bought low and is naturally SELLING during the period of unprecedented CGC speculation.

 

Now, what about the sappers who are BUYING your books and providing you with a Benz? Hmmmmm?

[Zonker]

::Bzzzzzzzzzz::

 

I know! I know! It's Number Five!

[delekkerste]

We appreciate the investment advice, but could do without the gloating...

 

What part of "Sue me if you can't take a joke" didn't you understand? And this coming from a guy who started a thread titled, "Can somebody tell me WHEN in 2004 the Great Crash is coming, please?"

 

I actually don't recommend that people put their money into the broad stock market, which I think is just as overpriced as high grade CGC SA/early Bronze comics. However, I couldn't resist writing this exaggerated, tongue-in-cheek post precisely because the perma-bull, pro-comics-as-investments crowd has clearly been doing way too much gloating themselves the past couple of weeks. "When is the market going to crash? I can't wait to scoop some bargains!", "The crash is coming next year, just like it was in 2001, 2002, 2003, etc.", "Where's the crash? Check out this auction result!", "Silver and early Bronze Age comics can't ever go down much!" Sound familiar?

 

Gene

[joe_collector]

However, I couldn't resist writing this exaggerated, tongue-in-cheek post precisely because the perma-bull, pro-comics-as-investments crowd has clearly been doing way too much gloating the past couple of weeks.

 

People see what they want to see, and obviously FF can't even read his own sig.

[delekkerste]

Stocks are ok. Volume baby on moderns and only buy keys.

 

That strategy may have worked great in 1990, but it's altogether different in 2003. Two AF 15 NMs nowdays will set you back over $200K and 2 Hulk 181 NMs will set you back over $4K. Let's see you make any money over the next 13 years buying at those kinds of prices, let alone anywhere near what you could have made buying in 1990.

 

How many people have made fortunes "investing" in comics? You can count them on one hand. Maybe on a couple of fingers. The number of people who have made fortunes in stocks and real estate probably numbers in the millions over time and worldwide. Not saying that it's always easy, but sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. So what were you when you were buying high-grade comic keys on the cheap in 1990 - lucky or good? If you're still advocating buying at today's prices, then I'm inclined to say you were lucky.

 

Gene

[fantastic_four]

People see what they want to see, and obviously FF can't even read his own sig.

 

I see more than the kidding tone in this thread, I see a tone of condescension related to financial matters that's been there all along...and since my sig line does mark me as one of the guys out in the park playing basketball...I don't need Vince Carter coming out and telling me my jump shot sucks the entire time he shows me the right way to do it...I already know my jumper sucks compared to his.

 

But I am sincere in expressing appreciation for the advice.

[lou_fine]

Do you declare profits made at a garage sale as capital gains? When you take your used DVDs and CDs to the record store do you declare profits/loss to the government?

 

Kev

 

 

Kev;

 

Sorry to give you the bad news, but Greggy is 100% correct.

 

According to Revenue Canada and IRS, any personal property which you sell falls under "Listed Personal Property" and is FULLY taxable if you sell it for a profit. They don't care about your use CD's or shoes because you will most likely end up selling them at a loss. I know that attention is being paid to this by the IRS. I don't think it is being done by Revenue Canada YET. Of course we are talking about bigger dollar items here, not the little ones which nobody would ever pay any attention to.

 

Try cashing a cheque from Heritage for any amount greater than $25,000 USA and you better pray that it doesn't flagged by the bank or spotted by the IRS or Revenue Canada.

[jduran1]

Good Point.

 

What would this forum think a hulk 181 9.8 be worth in 2010. I would guess 40 to 50K.? So at what point do you not buy. I haven't seen the keys come down in the last two decades . All CGC has done is give us the confidence to pay what they really are worth. An action 1 in 2020 5 Million??? I don't think they will come down maybe a few bumps here and there. There are two thing the comic marketpalce and the stock market have in common " Greed and Fear" Buy comics when people panic.

 

"From nothing comes nothing my dad used to say.

[PovertyRow]

Try cashing a cheque from Heritage for any amount greater than $25,000 USA and you better pray that it doesn't flagged by the bank or spotted by the IRS or Revenue Canada.

 

This is out of my realm of expertise, but I thought the magic number was $10,000?

[joe_collector]

Try cashing a cheque from Heritage for any amount greater than $25,000 USA and you better pray that it doesn't flagged by the bank or spotted by the IRS or Revenue Canada.

 

So what happens if you can prove that you bought it for $20K 10 years ago, and have extra storage/interest charges in excess of the $25K?

[joe_collector]

What would this forum think a hulk 181 9.8 be worth in 2010. I would guess 40 to 50K.? So at what point do you not buy. I haven't seen the keys come down in the last two decades

 

Ah, the logic of the Hopalong Cassidy collector, circa 1980.

[DoubleCovaBrotha]

Try cashing a cheque from Heritage for any amount greater than $25,000 USA and you better pray that it doesn't flagged by the bank or spotted by the IRS or Revenue Canada.

 

This is out of my realm of expertise, but I thought the magic number was $10,000?

 

By law, all United States banks are required to complete a Currency Transaction Report for all cash transactions that they process over $10,000. I am not certain how it works in Canada.

[blazingbob]

Gene, I must have been lucky.

 

Bob

[aardvark88]

Canadian banks are supposed to file a report if u deposit $10k Cdn or more. This is supposed to help prevent rampant money laundering. Easy to avoid if u have the buyer remit 2 bank drafts & deposit into 2 different banks.

[greggy]

Canadian banks are supposed to file a report if u deposit $10k Cdn or more. This is supposed to help prevent rampant money laundering. Easy to avoid if u have the buyer remit 2 bank drafts & deposit into 2 different banks.

Yeah...it gets reported into a database that the investigators in the Canada Customs and Revenue Agency has access to. But...like you said, it can be easily circumvented. You don't really have to deposit it into 2 bank accounts. Just deposit it at different times!

[Foolkiller]

How many people have made fortunes "investing" in comics? You can count them on one hand. Maybe on a couple of fingers. The number of people who have made fortunes in stocks and real estate probably numbers in the millions over time and worldwide. Not saying that it's always easy, but sometimes it's better to be lucky than good. So what were you when you were buying high-grade comic keys on the cheap in 1990 - lucky or good? If you're still advocating buying at today's prices, then I'm inclined to say you were lucky.

 

 

Hmmmm... how many people have made "fortunes" investing in comics... well... I mean, a fortune is probably a sliding scale of how much money you're talking about here.

 

But I'm not sure it's fair to compare the people who have made fortunes in the stock market by raw numbers... I'm sure you're well aware of the things I'm going to point out... but anyway: 1) there's far more people who invest in stocks 2) there's simply more opportunity to invest in stocks 3) there's more information concerning how to effectively invest in stocks 4) the two products are completely different in many aspects, especially the manner in which they either will or will not make money.

 

So saying that there have been millions of people making money on stocks is not really a fair comparison... but of course it lends credence to the fact that you are probably targeting which is that if you are thinking of investing, you are better off investing the money in more traditional financial avenues.

 

That being said, a wise businessman CAN make money investing in comics, there are probably more than just a handful... but it requires both intellect (and an excellent knowledge of the hobby and market itself) and luck, and because of the inherent instability in ANY collectible, I would not recommend placing large sums of money as an investment in comic books with the hope of a secure return.

[blazingbob]

This is not a slam on stocks.

 

My biggest problem with the stock market is a number of things.

 

No matter how much you know, invest or research you still won't have all the knowledge about a company unless you work for it or work in the securities field. Just like comic dealers you (Gene) know the inner workings of the securities industry, the IPO game, Mergers and Acquisitions, who underwrites the bonds for these companies, arbitrage, spreads, P/E, book value, commidities, etc.

 

And you Gene worked in the industry, you were an investment banker, therefore you probably know more about the market than most. And if you can sit in front of me and tell me with a straight face that market manipulation or pumps and dumps by sales forces doesn't happen than I'm Donald Duck. Currency trading and precious metal trading, I think you pretty much left most of us behind on that one. With the typical comic budget dare say can many afford that $400 ounce of gold. Better yet, I think Silver is a good investment, I hear the Hunts are dead so market manipulation is a thing of the past. I work in the Telecommunication's field, I work for Verizon, I work in Billing, I hear what's going on and for years we had our butts handed to us by Worldcom, Quest and Global Crossing. For years the "Darlings of Wall Street". Gee, let's see. Cooked books, sold access lines to itself and now out of business. Did I see it coming? How did they get away with it?

 

I buy and sell high grade comics. I try to buy them for a fair price and sell them based on what I know. And I will dare say that I am extremely knowledgeable about what I am buying and selling. Does everything go up, no. Have I made a very nice return on my investment, yes. Will a person buying today get the same returns I did, not likely.

 

If you are the person you claim to be instead of the person I cannot believe wrote the below post feel free to post on a weekly basis how to invest your money.

Specifics - Stocks to buy, funds or metals, how to do it. Share the knowledge on how to make real money versus wishing our comic books lower.