To Restore or not Restore....that is the question

[FFB]

Hello all. I've been buying/selling books for some 35 years now. I have always begged people to not restore ANY books unless they are going to fall apart without it. I have had countless numbers of friends and customers that have taken G and up key Gold and had them restored thinking they would never sell them. Invariably they go for less than if they'd left them alone. Perhaps Action 1 and Det 27 are exceptions but I will say from experience that Superman 1, Batman 1, Adventure 40 and 48, Flash 1, Wonder Woman 1, All-Star 3 & 8 are not. I've had the misfortune to have to move all these books more than once for friends that ended up getting hammered because they got perfectly acceptable copies upgraded and all these books were professionally restored. As unrestored keys get scacer they are going to get pricier. I'm not saying any of this is logical but these are the facts. Silver Age is worse. Why seling a tear on the back of a VF/NM Spidey #1 would kill it's value is beyond me but it has always happened and I contend always will.

keith

 

If the book is a GA book in GD 2.0 or better shape, I agree with you based on what I've seen in terms of sales prices. There is no point in restoring a VG copy of an expensive book, for example. At 1.5 and below, restoration can add real value to a GA book, especially an expensive key like Action 1 or Detective #27. For silver age, it's almost always pointless unless you're restoring a PR 0.5 or FR 1.0 copy of AF#15, because the cost of the restoration usually exceeds the resale value of the book. AF#15 is the only silver age book I can think of that is usually worth the cost of restoring up from PR 0.5 or FR 1.0.

 

Do you think restoring an AF 15 from 1.5-1.8 range makes sense?

 

It depends on what needs to be done to the book. If the book has a six-inch tear on the front cover but is otherwise relatively nice (say a VG/FN if the tear isn't present with no other missing pieces and not a ton of creasing), then the restoration would be relatively cheap and you could wind up with a much nicer book with minimal restoration/minimal cost. But most 1.5s and 1.8s need a lot more work done to them (infilling, lots of color touch over book-length creases, spine rebuilding, and interior page repair which takes a LOT of work) and the increase in value relative to the book's unrestored value will often not justify the cost of the restoration. Plus, you have to factor in the approximately one year that you will not have the book in your hands while it is being restored.

[comicdonna]

About 10 years ago, there was pretty stiff competition for your Golden and SIlver Age comics restoration business. Now, there is pretty stiff competition for your restoration detection and removal business. I personally would not buy a restored book, but I may be in a small minority..so I pose this question, which always interested me:

 

Would you rather own a G/VG unrestored GA book, or a restored VF for the same price? ( let's say the restoration is moderate / professional )

I would much rather own The unrestored 3.0 vs the restored 8.0 Their would be no way, I would intentionally buy a restored book. The guy, I have buying my books from lately, is very good about pointing out resto, and an accurate grader. I prefer to buy my books raw, and then get them graded. It's nice to take it out of the mylar, and flip through the pages a few times, before sending it in.

[showcase4]

If the book has a six-inch tear on the front cover but is otherwise relatively nice (say a VG/FN if the tear isn't present with no other missing pieces and not a ton of creasing), then the restoration would be relatively cheap and you could wind up with a much nicer book with minimal restoration/minimal cost. .

 

This is a great point, however, I have a different viewpoint to offer. In the above scenerio, you end up with a restored VG/FN beacuse the only work done is a tear seal. Now you have a mid-grade restored book....kiss of death if you go to sell.

 

You might as well have the entire book worked on, so you end up with an apparent VF/NM...ar even NM-...this way, you at least have a high grade book when the work is completed. It is my experience that collectors don't distinguish much between slight, moderate, or extensive restoration....they focus on restored or not restored and leave it there. I think you will come out better if you have an apparent NM- with moderate or even extensive restoratin, VS. an apparent FN with slight restoration.

[ft88]

It is my experience that collectors don't distinguish much between slight, moderate, or extensive restoration

While the difference between Blue and Purple is significant, and exponentially so at high grade. I think there is a siginificant difference between certain restorations and others. Forget SP MP or EP for a second. If the only issue is a slight color touch or tear seal, you really can sometimes get 50% guide. The minute you add in trimming or pieces added, it becomes drastically reduced.

 

There's also a weird issue going on with the key Gold since so many have been worked on. Superman 1 can be had for 15k restored when unrestored it starts to hit 50-100k in a hurry.

[FFB]

If the book has a six-inch tear on the front cover but is otherwise relatively nice (say a VG/FN if the tear isn't present with no other missing pieces and not a ton of creasing), then the restoration would be relatively cheap and you could wind up with a much nicer book with minimal restoration/minimal cost. .

 

This is a great point, however, I have a different viewpoint to offer. In the above scenerio, you end up with a restored VG/FN beacuse the only work done is a tear seal. Now you have a mid-grade restored book....kiss of death if you go to sell.

 

You might as well have the entire book worked on, so you end up with an apparent VF/NM...ar even NM-...this way, you at least have a high grade book when the work is completed. It is my experience that collectors don't distinguish much between slight, moderate, or extensive restoration....they focus on restored or not restored and leave it there. I think you will come out better if you have an apparent NM- with moderate or even extensive restoratin, VS. an apparent FN with slight restoration.

 

I didn't mean just seal the tear and leave it as a VG/FN. My point is that if it's a VG/FN apart from the tear, then the damage is probably limited to some blunted corners and some creasing, which are relatively easier to fix when compared to missing pieces and a spine with thousands of small creases that all need color touch. You could wind up with a VF or better with relatively minimal expense on the VG/FN with the tear, whereas a typical FR/GD 1.5 copy is going to need a lot of work to get it up to a high grade -- including interior page work, which can really run up the cost of the restoration.

[showcase4]

There's also a weird issue going on with the key Gold since so many have been worked on. Superman 1 can be had for 15k restored when unrestored it starts to hit 50-100k in a hurry.

 

yes, and for this reason, I find the new blossoming business of restoration removal very interesting. You could in theory by a slightly restored CGC graded key book, crack it out of its case, pay to have restoration removal, and have it re-graded and hope for that all important blue label.

[showcase4]

I may be VERY out of the loop on this and be the last to know , but what is the latest info on CGC changing their labels, and adding additional categories such as restoration for the purposes of preservation?

[Silver Surfer]

Would depend on the book but if it was a major grail for me I'd go with a VG unrestored copy probably every time. For example, if I could have a Marvel Mystery Comics #9 in VG vs a restored one I would take the VG copy in a heartbeat.

[ciorac]

Would depend on the book but if it was a major grail for me I'd go with a VG unrestored copy probably every time. For example, if I could have a Marvel Mystery Comics #9 in VG vs a restored one I would take the VG copy in a heartbeat.

 

What about a FA for the same money as a restored VG for example? Which would you choose?

[Silver Surfer]

Would depend on the book but if it was a major grail for me I'd go with a VG unrestored copy probably every time. For example, if I could have a Marvel Mystery Comics #9 in VG vs a restored one I would take the VG copy in a heartbeat.

 

What about a FA for the same money as a restored VG for example? Which would you choose?

 

Very interesting question Mr. Ciorac. Well I guess it would depend on the price, I'm all ears.

[ciorac]

Would depend on the book but if it was a major grail for me I'd go with a VG unrestored copy probably every time. For example, if I could have a Marvel Mystery Comics #9 in VG vs a restored one I would take the VG copy in a heartbeat.

 

What about a FA for the same money as a restored VG for example? Which would you choose?

 

Very interesting question Mr. Ciorac. Well I guess it would depend on the price, I'm all ears.

 

It was a hypothetical!!

 

Say for instance the FA/GD on eBay that looks like it will hammer at leasr if not more than 3K. Then, if you were offered a restored VG for the same money, which would you rather have?

[Silver Surfer]

I would probably lean towards the restored copy but I doubt I could fetch one for that price. Also would dpend on the level and quality of the restoration. I see the "VG" copy that was listed on Comic Link finally sold for $3,600 (must have been listed for 2 years) but I have to say it was very ugly indeed and obviously was not worked on by a professional. The market on this book is unknown because so few copies ever surface for sale. If you have a lead on such a book, I'm looking to make a move soon.

[Ze-man]

Would depend on the book but if it was a major grail for me I'd go with a VG unrestored copy probably every time. For example, if I could have a Marvel Mystery Comics #9 in VG vs a restored one I would take the VG copy in a heartbeat.

 

What about a FA for the same money as a restored VG for example? Which would you choose?

 

Very interesting question Mr. Ciorac. Well I guess it would depend on the price, I'm all ears.

 

 

Would it also not depend if the work done was Slight, Moderate, or Extensive? And the quality of work done? I think that plays a large role when deciding how much to restore a book. Is it worth the extra work if people wont pay more for the bump in grade a book might receive?

 

Ze-

[FFB]

Would depend on the book but if it was a major grail for me I'd go with a VG unrestored copy probably every time. For example, if I could have a Marvel Mystery Comics #9 in VG vs a restored one I would take the VG copy in a heartbeat.

 

What about a FA for the same money as a restored VG for example? Which would you choose?

 

Very interesting question Mr. Ciorac. Well I guess it would depend on the price, I'm all ears.

 

It was a hypothetical!!

 

Say for instance the FA/GD on eBay that looks like it will hammer at leasr if not more than 3K. Then, if you were offered a restored VG for the same money, which would you rather have?

 

The question wasn't posed to me, but I'm going to give my two cents anyway.

 

Assuming that the restored book started out as about an unrestored FR/GD and the restoration work were professionally done, I'd take the restored book if both copies were priced the same. You're basically getting the same book, plus $1,000 or more worth of "free" professional restoration that makes the book look a lot better.

[ciorac]

Would depend on the book but if it was a major grail for me I'd go with a VG unrestored copy probably every time. For example, if I could have a Marvel Mystery Comics #9 in VG vs a restored one I would take the VG copy in a heartbeat.

 

What about a FA for the same money as a restored VG for example? Which would you choose?

 

Very interesting question Mr. Ciorac. Well I guess it would depend on the price, I'm all ears.

 

It was a hypothetical!!

 

Say for instance the FA/GD on eBay that looks like it will hammer at leasr if not more than 3K. Then, if you were offered a restored VG for the same money, which would you rather have?

 

The question wasn't posed to me, but I'm going to give my two cents anyway.

 

Assuming that the restored book started out as about an unrestored FR/GD and the restoration work were professionally done, I'd take the restored book if both copies were priced the same. You're basically getting the same book, plus $1,000 or more worth of "free" professional restoration that makes the book look a lot better.

 

Good answer!

 

But in my case, the one I bought was cheaper than what the one on eBay will probably hammer for and is much more attractive.

[Apotheosis]

Just because I don't want to start another thread....

 

Thoughts on restoring (or conserving on Matt's site) a book that is literally falling apart. Cover is holding on to one staple by a thread or two, three center wraps have detached completely, rusty staples, bad spine roll, some worm holes in the interior, and some other issues. Does it get restored so that it doesn't continue to get worse? Book was bought for a little more than 50% of 2.0 guide and conservation costs would take it to a little over the same guide.

[showcase4]

Just because I don't want to start another thread....

 

Thoughts on restoring (or conserving on Matt's site) a book that is literally falling apart. Cover is holding on to one staple by a thread or two, three center wraps have detached completely, rusty staples, bad spine roll, some worm holes in the interior, and some other issues. Does it get restored so that it doesn't continue to get worse? Book was bought for a little more than 50% of 2.0 guide and conservation costs would take it to a little over the same guide.

 

I think this would all depend on the cost of restoration, and the value of the book after restoration. I would not make sense to spend $1200 to completely restore a book that will be worth $1,000 when finished. On the other hand, if you can turn an ugly duckling into a swan, and your acquisition cost + resto cost are less than the books value after resto is complete....then go for it

[TheEyeSees]

Just because I don't want to start another thread....

 

Thoughts on restoring (or conserving on Matt's site) a book that is literally falling apart. Cover is holding on to one staple by a thread or two, three center wraps have detached completely, rusty staples, bad spine roll, some worm holes in the interior, and some other issues. Does it get restored so that it doesn't continue to get worse? Book was bought for a little more than 50% of 2.0 guide and conservation costs would take it to a little over the same guide.

 

I think this would all depend on the cost of restoration, and the value of the book after restoration. I would not make sense to spend $1200 to completely restore a book that will be worth $1,000 when finished. On the other hand, if you can turn an ugly duckling into a swan, and your acquisition cost + resto cost are less than the books value after resto is complete....then go for it

 

Good points... I am going through this debate right now on a few books I own , and one that i just won on ebay (with a taped spine I would like to get cleaned up and sealed). I have never had any resto work done on books I own, but I do buy restored books. I think I'll test the water with a couple books that only need minimal work (tape removal, spine splits sealed), and see how those turn out. I hear Matt Nelson is the champ at resto work!

[Silver Surfer]

One more comment on restoration, I'm not against it but as a colelctor if I can buy a book that is untouched from its original state I'm going to try and do so every time, especially with those rare GA books. For me it just adds to the mystique of owning some of these rare gems.

[mr.schomburg]

One more comment on restoration, I'm not against it but as a colelctor if I can buy a book that is untouched from its original state I'm going to try and do so every time, especially with those rare GA books. For me it just adds to the mystique of owning some of these rare gems.

 

I am in complete agreement with Surfer! I would always prefer to have an unretored book, and have only bought one restored book that I new about ahead of time. I am not against it, but I would never do it to a book, unless it was already tainted. I mean if the damage is done and cost is not prohibitive, why not have a nice copy to look at and read. As a collector, I have often spent more than the book or market value to obtain a book I wanted and had been unable to purchase, so why not overspend fixing a previously tampered book for your own benifit. I mean thats what this is all about, right? Our love for the art form, the challange of completing a run or finding a key you have wanted since you were 12....One doesn't always make good investments, but if you invest in what you like, I would think you at least will be happy.