Fantastic Four Collecting Thread! 33 33

[Dick Pontoon]

[trmoore54]

Posted the counterpart to this for ASM 1-50 Census tracking in HG here...https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/71950-amazing-spider-man-collecting-thread/page/734/#comments.  Amazing Spider-Man Collecting Thread p. 734.

FANTASTIC FOUR 1-50 HG CENSUS ANALYSIS                       6.23.2024          TOUGHEST IN HIGH GRADE

I’ve been keeping track for about 10 years on the ASM 1-50 Census (see Amazing Spider-Man Collecting Thread in Silver Age Comic Books) as well as with FF 1-50…my two favorite titles.  The study includes only universal and Signature books, no qualified or restored copies.  As opposed to ASM, FF is crazy more difficult in HG (9.0-9.8) with a little less than half total books graded and only 176 new books graded the last year-plus while ASM had 406 new books.  Which makes some sense with FF first published November 1961 and ASM in March 1963 about 16 months later…but you still wouldn’t expect that big of a disparity for just 16 months.  Some of this could be attributed to Spidey being more popular than the FF but if money ultimately drives submissions, where are all the minty and semi-minty-fresh FFs??

Our update shows very little change in the rankings with the Top 10 holding their order…in fact 5 books had no new entries.  Along the clean-press-resubmit gambit lines, it would appear an FF18 got upgraded from a 9.2 to a 9.8!  This is the only new 9.8 other than a Signature 33 out of 48 books (not counting the most prolific FF 44 and 48 with 1 and 5 new 9.8s respectively).  Also an FF8 moving from 9.4 to 9.6.  There are 21 new 9.6s in the Top 50.  Only 6 new books in the Top 10 were added…that’s pretty crazy.  Only 5 books had 8 or more graded copies while 25 books had 2 or less new copies.

FF 1 remains one of the most difficult of the SA Keys in total HG numbers at 20 graded books tied with The Incredible Hulk 1.  Although FF 1 has two 9.6s and three 9.4s while Hulk has the lone 9.4 as its highest graded copy.  ASM has only 6 books with a total of HG copies less than 100 FF has 31 books…the same as in April 2023!  Warehouse finds are noted as such, and thus the crazier number of HG copies, but are not necessarily conclusive (perhaps anyone in the know can shed additional light here).

Here’s my write-up from July 2019…(same as posted in the ASM thread but posting here as well in the event someone doesn't want to cross-reference.)

I just recently updated my HG Census analysis for ASM 1-50 which I posted in the ASM 11 thread.  Now let’s have a look at the Fantastic Four 1-52.  As for the ASM data, the last time I put his together was in August 2014 as well.  Let’s break it down…As per the title, I am using the Census to examine the numbers.  As with all analyses and empirical data/evidence…there are factors of error to be considered…retired books resubmitted probably the foremost issue…but all-in-all the numbers appear to be consistent with the Jan 2012 analysis and my non-published analysis prior to that.  Also the fact that “key” and singular books will have more submissions than the other issues.

Additionally in the case of the FF issues, issues 44 and 48 are warehouse finds and thus significantly more issues have been submitted and graded for these 2 books with higher grades as would be expected.  Let’s start with some general statements of fact:  Of the 50 books, 14 issues have only added 8 or less copies to the Census in grades 9.0-10.0 or 28-per cent.  The most difficult of all, with only 3/4/5 added copies respectively are issues 1, 11 and 8.  Next up is Issue 12 with 6 copies and then Issues 3, 4, 5, 6 and 18 with 7 copies and rounding out Issues 7, 17 and and 19 with 8 copies.  Issues 16 and 20 have 10 copies added.  Issue 1 retains the top spot with 16 issues and only three 9.0s added.  Issue 3 is next with only 27 copies.  And then those 2 dark covers, Issues 11 (31) and 7 (34) followed by Issue 8 (36 copies) to round out the Top 5.  The order is the same as in 2014 except for 7 and 11 changing spots.  Issues 2, 18, 5, 2, 13 and 6 round out the Top 10.

Twelve issues do not have a 9.8 adding 2 9.8s down from 14…Issues 9 and 49 each added one 9.8  There are a total of 29 9.8s added.  Of the issues without 9.8s, Issues 7 and 8 have only one 9.6!  Fifteen Issues now have 100 or more HG copies graded up from 10.  Issue 48’s total numbers have risen by a staggering 121 copies or an average of 24 per year.  There have  been no 9.8s or 9.6s added for Issues 1, 3, 11, 7, 8, 2, 18, 5, 13, 6 and 4 in their order in the rankings.

9.8!

Still only 145 copies in the entire run achieving the rarified 9.8 grade status (or 2.9-per cent)!  That represents a meager 32 issues added in the last 5 years of an average of just over 6 a year!

As previously mentioned, Issues 9 and 49 joined the list with 1 copy each.

 

9.6!

Only 73 9.6 copies for an average of a little under 15/year. 

 

Summarily, there are only 5,013 CGC graded issues of FF 1-50 graded 9.0 or better…an overall increase of a 1,130 copies in the last 5 years…and average of 226/year. 

 

Side-by-side comparison

Grade   2014     2019

9.8       113       145       28.3-per cent increase

9.6       391       483       23.5-per cent increase

9.4       849       1066     25.5-per cent increase

9.2       955       1371     30.4-per cent increase

9.0       1443     1948     34.9-per cent increase

 

FF	Issues 1-52					8.25.14
	9.8	9.6	9.4	9.2	9.0	TOTAL
1		2	3	2	6	13
3	1	1	2	10	6	20
7		1	5	8	12	26
11		2	5	6	14	27
8		1	7	5	18	31
18	1	1	5	12	12	31
5		2	11	11	8	32
2	1	2	6	11	14	33
13	1	3	5	10	16	35
9		6	13	7	10	36
6		2	6	11	18	37
17	1	4	8	11	16	40
15	2	4	8	12	15	41
4		6	10	11	16	43
19	1	7	13	8	16	45
31	2	3	11	13	16	45
23	1	4	6	16	20	47
10	2	4	11	12	20	49
12		4	14	17	14	49
37		4	8	17	20	49
29		8	6	19	21	54
16	1	2	18	15	19	55
20	1	7	10	8	30	56
34		2	16	20	21	59
51		7	10	21	21	59
42	2	4	14	17	23	60
43	2	7	12	20	21	62
40		7	6	18	32	63
14	3	7	16	14	24	64
22	2	7	15	14	26	64
27	1	4	13	18	28	64
25	2	5	11	20	33	71
30	1	8	20	22	22	73
32	2	11	10	16	34	73
24	4	11	20	14	27	76
21	4	6	14	23	32	79
33	5	7	22	15	30	79
38	2	9	19	29	22	81
28	2	6	24	22	38	92
39	2	10	18	19	43	92
26	2	11	19	29	33	94
36	1	8	17	33	36	95
45	3	5	15	24	58	105
50	2	5	13	38	57	115
52	3	12	27	37	72	115
35	3	16	22	36	43	120
41	7	10	34	30	40	121
47	2	14	33	39	38	126
49		9	22	35	60	126
46	7	18	45	60	53	183
44	9	33	90	69	64	265
48	28	71	98	105	148	450
TOTALS	116	410	886	1109	1536	4057
2013	105	373	764	955	1314	3511
DELTA	11	37	122	154	222	546

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[FoggyNelson]

On 6/24/2024 at 2:03 PM, dick pontoon said:

Good story arc if I remember correctly 👍

[trmoore54]

I want to get a little more plugged back in here on the boards so am hoping for some conversation/discussion here.  Having said that, I am retiring this week Wed June 26 my last day and then going to Cabo Thursday morning and back Sunday June 30 afternoon.  So if there becomes a bit of a gap here I'll get back to it Monday July 1...Cheers... 

[KirbyJack]

On 6/24/2024 at 5:05 PM, trmoore54 said:

I want to get a little more plugged back in here on the boards so am hoping for some conversation/discussion here.  

I can’t help you with CGC high grade discussions, but I’ll certainly be happy to see you around here more!  

[namisgr]

It's amazing that after all these years of CGC grading there's still no 9.8 copy of FF #51, This Man, This Monster.  Even the Pacific Coast copy didn't make it.

[trmoore54]

On 6/24/2024 at 3:12 PM, KirbyJack said:

I can’t help you with CGC high grade discussions, but I’ll certainly be happy to see you around here more!  

10-4 I'll be in touch Jack...hope all is well with you...

[trmoore54]

On 6/24/2024 at 4:10 PM, namisgr said:

It's amazing that after all these years of CGC grading there's still no 9.8 copy of FF #51, This Man, This Monster.  Even the Pacific Coast copy didn't make it.

Hey Bob...long time...yeah it's kind of strange with Ish 51...would be around 40th place if I included in the Top 51 with 124 total copies...yet only 8 9.6 and 23 9.4...and this seems like a relatively forgiving cover colors-wise... 

[trmoore54]

Time for hockey... 

[KirbyJack]

On 6/24/2024 at 7:05 PM, trmoore54 said:

Time for hockey... 

drat.  Wanted the Oilers to win. 

[Straw-Man]

On 6/24/2024 at 6:10 PM, namisgr said:

It's amazing that after all these years of CGC grading there's still no 9.8 copy of FF #51, This Man, This Monster.  Even the Pacific Coast copy didn't make it.

you say this, but be aware i haven't yet submitted my childhood copy.

Edited Tuesday at 11:28 AM by Straw-Man

[Straw-Man]

[Straw-Man]

51 is my favorite stand-alone story.   my don and maggie copy has very strong colors--look at that green!   i do so enjoy it.

[Straw-Man]

naturally, ped designation, grade in the corner, vivid colors, sublime story---they all pale next to second app. of wyatt.

Edited Tuesday at 02:22 PM by Straw-Man

[namisgr]

On 6/25/2024 at 7:21 AM, Straw-Man said:

you say this, but be aware i haven't yet submitted my childhood copy.

The kind you can read are always good.  And when they're parts of your childhood, even better.

Edited Tuesday at 11:40 AM by namisgr

[MattTheDuck]

On 6/25/2021 at 1:45 PM, MattTheDuck said:

Victor Von Doom, he loves to loom.

 

 

[WernerVonDoom]

[WernerVonDoom]

On 6/24/2024 at 3:00 PM, trmoore54 said:

Posted the counterpart to this for ASM 1-50 Census tracking in HG here...https://boards.cgccomics.com/topic/71950-amazing-spider-man-collecting-thread/page/734/#comments.  Amazing Spider-Man Collecting Thread p. 734.

FANTASTIC FOUR 1-50 HG CENSUS ANALYSIS                       6.23.2024          TOUGHEST IN HIGH GRADE

I’ve been keeping track for about 10 years on the ASM 1-50 Census (see Amazing Spider-Man Collecting Thread in Silver Age Comic Books) as well as with FF 1-50…my two favorite titles.  The study includes only universal and Signature books, no qualified or restored copies.  As opposed to ASM, FF is crazy more difficult in HG (9.0-9.8) with a little less than half total books graded and only 176 new books graded the last year-plus while ASM had 406 new books.  Which makes some sense with FF first published November 1961 and ASM in March 1963 about 16 months later…but you still wouldn’t expect that big of a disparity for just 16 months.  Some of this could be attributed to Spidey being more popular than the FF but if money ultimately drives submissions, where are all the minty and semi-minty-fresh FFs??

Our update shows very little change in the rankings with the Top 10 holding their order…in fact 5 books had no new entries.  Along the clean-press-resubmit gambit lines, it would appear an FF18 got upgraded from a 9.2 to a 9.8!  This is the only new 9.8 other than a Signature 33 out of 48 books (not counting the most prolific FF 44 and 48 with 1 and 5 new 9.8s respectively).  Also an FF8 moving from 9.4 to 9.6.  There are 21 new 9.6s in the Top 50.  Only 6 new books in the Top 10 were added…that’s pretty crazy.  Only 5 books had 8 or more graded copies while 25 books had 2 or less new copies.

FF 1 remains one of the most difficult of the SA Keys in total HG numbers at 20 graded books tied with The Incredible Hulk 1.  Although FF 1 has two 9.6s and three 9.4s while Hulk has the lone 9.4 as its highest graded copy.  ASM has only 6 books with a total of HG copies less than 100 FF has 31 books…the same as in April 2023!  Warehouse finds are noted as such, and thus the crazier number of HG copies, but are not necessarily conclusive (perhaps anyone in the know can shed additional light here).

Here’s my write-up from July 2019…(same as posted in the ASM thread but posting here as well in the event someone doesn't want to cross-reference.)

I just recently updated my HG Census analysis for ASM 1-50 which I posted in the ASM 11 thread.  Now let’s have a look at the Fantastic Four 1-52.  As for the ASM data, the last time I put his together was in August 2014 as well.  Let’s break it down…As per the title, I am using the Census to examine the numbers.  As with all analyses and empirical data/evidence…there are factors of error to be considered…retired books resubmitted probably the foremost issue…but all-in-all the numbers appear to be consistent with the Jan 2012 analysis and my non-published analysis prior to that.  Also the fact that “key” and singular books will have more submissions than the other issues.

Additionally in the case of the FF issues, issues 44 and 48 are warehouse finds and thus significantly more issues have been submitted and graded for these 2 books with higher grades as would be expected.  Let’s start with some general statements of fact:  Of the 50 books, 14 issues have only added 8 or less copies to the Census in grades 9.0-10.0 or 28-per cent.  The most difficult of all, with only 3/4/5 added copies respectively are issues 1, 11 and 8.  Next up is Issue 12 with 6 copies and then Issues 3, 4, 5, 6 and 18 with 7 copies and rounding out Issues 7, 17 and and 19 with 8 copies.  Issues 16 and 20 have 10 copies added.  Issue 1 retains the top spot with 16 issues and only three 9.0s added.  Issue 3 is next with only 27 copies.  And then those 2 dark covers, Issues 11 (31) and 7 (34) followed by Issue 8 (36 copies) to round out the Top 5.  The order is the same as in 2014 except for 7 and 11 changing spots.  Issues 2, 18, 5, 2, 13 and 6 round out the Top 10.

Twelve issues do not have a 9.8 adding 2 9.8s down from 14…Issues 9 and 49 each added one 9.8  There are a total of 29 9.8s added.  Of the issues without 9.8s, Issues 7 and 8 have only one 9.6!  Fifteen Issues now have 100 or more HG copies graded up from 10.  Issue 48’s total numbers have risen by a staggering 121 copies or an average of 24 per year.  There have  been no 9.8s or 9.6s added for Issues 1, 3, 11, 7, 8, 2, 18, 5, 13, 6 and 4 in their order in the rankings.

9.8!

Still only 145 copies in the entire run achieving the rarified 9.8 grade status (or 2.9-per cent)!  That represents a meager 32 issues added in the last 5 years of an average of just over 6 a year!

As previously mentioned, Issues 9 and 49 joined the list with 1 copy each.

 

9.6!

Only 73 9.6 copies for an average of a little under 15/year. 

 

Summarily, there are only 5,013 CGC graded issues of FF 1-50 graded 9.0 or better…an overall increase of a 1,130 copies in the last 5 years…and average of 226/year. 

 

Side-by-side comparison

Grade   2014     2019

9.8       113       145       28.3-per cent increase

9.6       391       483       23.5-per cent increase

9.4       849       1066     25.5-per cent increase

9.2       955       1371     30.4-per cent increase

9.0       1443     1948     34.9-per cent increase

 

FF	Issues 1-52					8.25.14
	9.8	9.6	9.4	9.2	9.0	TOTAL
1		2	3	2	6	13
3	1	1	2	10	6	20
7		1	5	8	12	26
11		2	5	6	14	27
8		1	7	5	18	31
18	1	1	5	12	12	31
5		2	11	11	8	32
2	1	2	6	11	14	33
13	1	3	5	10	16	35
9		6	13	7	10	36
6		2	6	11	18	37
17	1	4	8	11	16	40
15	2	4	8	12	15	41
4		6	10	11	16	43
19	1	7	13	8	16	45
31	2	3	11	13	16	45
23	1	4	6	16	20	47
10	2	4	11	12	20	49
12		4	14	17	14	49
37		4	8	17	20	49
29		8	6	19	21	54
16	1	2	18	15	19	55
20	1	7	10	8	30	56
34		2	16	20	21	59
51		7	10	21	21	59
42	2	4	14	17	23	60
43	2	7	12	20	21	62
40		7	6	18	32	63
14	3	7	16	14	24	64
22	2	7	15	14	26	64
27	1	4	13	18	28	64
25	2	5	11	20	33	71
30	1	8	20	22	22	73
32	2	11	10	16	34	73
24	4	11	20	14	27	76
21	4	6	14	23	32	79
33	5	7	22	15	30	79
38	2	9	19	29	22	81
28	2	6	24	22	38	92
39	2	10	18	19	43	92
26	2	11	19	29	33	94
36	1	8	17	33	36	95
45	3	5	15	24	58	105
50	2	5	13	38	57	115
52	3	12	27	37	72	115
35	3	16	22	36	43	120
41	7	10	34	30	40	121
47	2	14	33	39	38	126
49		9	22	35	60	126
46	7	18	45	60	53	183
44	9	33	90	69	64	265
48	28	71	98	105	148	450
TOTALS	116	410	886	1109	1536	4057
2013	105	373	764	955	1314	3511
DELTA	11	37	122	154	222	546

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Seems like #50 should be the king of the trilogy in 9.4+.

[namisgr]

No 9.8 copies yet of FF #49 either.

[Straw-Man]