Waid Fired from FF: TRUE To be replaced by Jemas: FALSE says Joe Q

[Zonker]

Ouch!

 

WTF?

[hogations]

Would not be entirely surprised if Waid was let go. He has a history of not getting along with people (left Crossgen on bad terms and made Alex Ross very upset). Too bad, as he has written some very good books.

[Zonker]

I remember something to the effect that Alex Ross was angered at the Kingdom Come followup (the "Hyper-time" thing). Ross felt the sequel betrayed the vision of the original, which ended with the super-beings coming back down to Earth so to speak, rather than setting themselves apart from normal humanity. So that was a creative difference, not a hard-to-get-along difference. Was there more?

 

Oh, and seems the Newsarama site I linked to above is currently down (maybe related to flame wars on this very topic? Last I checked Monday morning there were 5 pages of responses for an article posted Sunday night!)

 

Cheers,

Z.

[Zonker]

Quesada's reply.

[500Club]

Wonderful.

 

Bill Jemas, with a law degree, steering the creative ship of the FF! FF under Waid was as good as it had been in many years.

 

As far as conceptualizing the Ultimate titles or deciding to go forward with Origin, well, it's one thing to make publishing decisions. It's quite another to step in at the creative level.

 

Anybody read Marville?

[blowout]

As far as conceptualizing the Ultimate titles or deciding to go forward with Origin, well, it's one thing to make publishing decisions. It's quite another to step in at the creative level.

 

You are right doc and Jemas has proved, with Marville, that he is just not up to the task. There was actually a thread here a while back (started by Gene I think) that contested that Marville was possibly the worst book of all time.

 

Jemas on the FF would not be good news.

[500Club]

I'd back Gene on that one.... Marville was a waste of paper products. Somewhere, someone has been deprived of toilet paper.

 

Jemas has made one great move. He hired Quesada. From there, it has been JQ and his contacts that have revitalized Marvel. I feel bad for Quesada at times like this - having to justify and defend the decisions of a meddling boss.

[Foolkiller]

I completely disagree with this... while Quesada has been instrumental in revitalizing Marvel from the creative standpoint, Jemas has restored order in the realm of the health and overall financial stability. Jemas has tried to get into the creative side, which is a mistake... he apparently thinks he's talented enough for it to fly... thus far, he's been subpar...

 

But to say it's been all Quesada doesn't factor in how most businesses run... Marvel comics does not live and die with quesada alone, and Jemas has been very good for Marvel.

[Illiterati-migration]

This is why I'm a DC man.

 

FF was FANTASTIC with Waid. Gads, Marvel, get a grip. That entire line is falling apart....... again.

[blowout]

But to say it's been all Quesada doesn't factor in how most businesses run... Marvel comics does not live and die with quesada alone, and Jemas has been very good for Marvel.

 

I don't think anyone is saying its all Quesada. The point is both he and Quesada should both stick to what they are good at, ie the business side for Jemas and the creative side for Quesada.

Its the creative meddling that is a problem with Jemas, no one is disputing the guys undoubted business acumen.

[500Club]

I completely disagree with this... while Quesada has been instrumental in revitalizing Marvel from the creative standpoint, Jemas has restored order in the realm of the health and overall financial stability.

 

Support your argument. What measures has Jemas taken that have made a significant difference? Aside from hiring JQ and allowing him to improve the product, where has BJ made an impact?

 

But to say it's been all Quesada doesn't factor in how most businesses run...

 

No, I won't say it's been all Quesada. In fact, Marvel's movie successes have probably made even more of a difference on the balance sheet than JQs handling of the comic side.

[Aman619]

Jemas is the driving force behind "doing everything except the usual Marvel style" of putting out the books. Having different experimental cover designs. Opening up the writing and art to new names from off the usual list of comics regulars. Marvel used to be in a rut because they former editors did things the way it was always done..and occasionally some of the talent would come up with something fresh that 'stuck'.

 

Bill's a "thinking outside the box" kinda guy. Perhaps the most interesting thing about his success at Marvel is that he did not grow up reading comics hoping, praying and planning to "get into comics" when he grew up.

 

I dont agree with everything he does: he's overly combative, too aggressive and likes to come across as cocky and smarter than everyone else who take things he says "too seriously'. His ideas for Ultimates have been good, but his Marville was, well, it was so bad I almost believe he did it not to WIN the bet with Peter David, but to give Captain Marvel a big boost in sales and attention.

 

But he hired Quesada, stressed the trades sales, and basically created a new atmosphere at Marvel that "anything is possible" again.

[500Club]

Actually, I'm arguing that Bill hired JQ, and it was Quesada who instituted the changes you mention.

[blowout]

Hmmm, I'm not sure that Jemas would have come up with any of that stuff without JQ.

[Aman619]

I ve talked about Jemas with people who have worked with him. They say Jemas was the same way when he came in to run the Marvel trading cards. Before him it was a just get out the next set as soon as you can, and use the same old marvel artists cause noone else can draw them "Marvel Style" He opened the doors to painters, illustrators and other commercial artists. Until he started, Joe Jusko was gonna have to grow four more arms in order for Marvel to put out an extra set!

 

So Jemas first card set was the Ultra X-men that broke all sales records!! Then he pushed those (ultimately) horrible Flair cards that were computer-colored with no inked outlines. They were awful because noone yet had learned how to do it right yet. But Bill pushed then through because thats how he thinks: computers/cool/different/good marketing angle.

 

To me, Quesada big contribution is hes an extremely talented comics ARTIST and WRITER, with great design sense and the respect of the freelancers. Without all that, Bill would be the lonely angry man everyone hates (wait, that's what he is now!)

 

I guess Im saying think Stan and Jack. Jemas picks the right guy and is the overall guiding force behind sweeping changes...while Quesada does the actual heavy lifting on the books that get published.

[blowout]

Jemas picks the right guy and is the overall guiding force behind sweeping changes...while Quesada does the actual heavy lifting on the books that get published.

 

You are obviously speaking as one who knows a fair bit from the inside on Jemas. I have no problems with what he has achived at Marvel, they were in a horrible state before he arrived and he has certainly turned things around.

 

I just wish he would stay away from writing comic books.

[Aman619]

I'm with you there!

[fantastic_four]

I guess Im saying think Stan and Jack. Jemas picks the right guy and is the overall guiding force behind sweeping changes...while Quesada does the actual heavy lifting on the books that get published.

 

I take great offense to your likening of Jemas to Stan Lee. I can guarantee you that in 30 years, we will not be seeing "Bill Jemas Presents:" above the title on the splash page of every Marvel comic. Plus, Kirby wasn't as good a writer as Quesada is; Kirby was mostly a pure artist and creative idea guy. Quesada is somewhat of a "renaissance man," a jack-of-all-trades, whereas Kirby specialized in art and character creation.

 

Stan Lee didn't do what he did alone, he had lots of help...but Jemas hasn't done ANYTHING creative that was successful, to the best of my knowledge. Certainly nothing like Lee did.

[fantastic_four]

Driving home, I realized that comparing Jemas/Quesada to Lee/Kirby is inaccurate...Jemas/Quesada is more similar to Goodman/Lee. Certainly the positions match up better since Quesada is editor-in-chief just like Lee was. Lee has always told stories about the creative decisions that Goodman fed him that were almost entirely inspired by his pontifications on what people like to buy, and like Jemas in this instance, a lot of them sound really stupid in retrospect.

 

I believe in the auteur theory that has come to dominate filmmaking. Too many chefs doth spoil the broth...Jemas shouldn't be spouting creative directions because it's not his specialty. Whoever Jemas hires next for FF, we're all gonna know it's somebody who will take his vision and make it real...which means whether the book bears his name or not, it probably should because the direction will have come from him.

[500Club]

Jemas/Quesada is more similar to Goodman/Lee.

 

Good call. I've just read Stan's biography, and the analogy fits pretty well.