CGC vs PGX grading

[DiceX]

I think it's sad that people still do business with the PGX crooks.

[ignimbrite]

I sent a few off but only because I was mistakingly told that CGC would not grade anything with an overhang even though I did see the same book graded on the census a few months later but I am not bitter, not at all. The odd part was this was told to me by the person at the CGC booth and I had the book in question with me. That all said my experience with PGX was a good one as they told me when the books arrived, sent me a tracking number when they left their possession and the entire process was done in 5 weeks. I do find the cases to be better in terms of strength but it is not a drastic improvement.

 

Another one that can be added to the list for a reason someone would go to PGX instead of CGC is patience. CGC is slow in comparison to PGX and while I know patience is a virtue I have waited up to 5 months to get books back from CGC before and that seems excessive.

[Davenport]

At first glance PGX seemed to have that "independent" element of being an independent 3rd party, without a horde of marketing partners gaming the system. And, if some of the old Con reports were accurate, slowly gaining some acceptance. But then all that T. Leder nonsense...

 

It may be that being able to print money via a labelmaker is powerfully corrupting, too damn easy, near irresistible. Pity, if so.

[mosconi]

It may be that being able to print money via a labelmaker is powerfully corrupting, too damn easy, near irresistible. Pity, if so.

 

Yeah, Daniel may have started out with good intentions but the whole thing has ended in disaster for him. Last place I would want my high priced books would be in his basement, living room, kitchen, god knows where, being graded by his single-man operation. And his ties with T. Leder, etc. made it clear he was playing everyone for a fool.

 

I owned a single PGX book: Batman #244 PGX 9.2 but it was soon liberated from the holder only to be submitted to CGC where it was lost by Fedex in shipment. Hey, maybe this was a sign I shouldn't have purchased it in the first place

 

[valiantman]

Thank you all for your comments.

 

I stand by the following statements.

 

One of many existing discussions...

PGX vs CGC

 

There are a TON of OPINIONS on the subject,

so here's a quick statement of FACTS, before I give my opinion.

 

CGC is the standard for professionally graded books, by a huge margin,

in terms of total books graded, acceptance by major national dealers and auction houses,

and in major industry publications.

 

Given these facts, here's my opinion:

 

If someone uses PGX instead of CGC, despite the facts above, they are either:

A) Cheap (since PGX is cheaper than CGC)

B) Sneaky (since CGC might catch whatever they're trying to hide)

C) Anti-CGC (just giving money to the competition out of spite)

D) near Eugene, Oregon (since PGX would be the local grading company)

E) Ignorant (not recognizing the industry signs, or not doing any research)

F) Other

 

As a regular buyer of comic books on Ebay, I am generally not interested

in dealing with comic book sellers who are Cheap, Sneaky, or Ignorant.

 

Sellers who are Anti-CGC might be ok if they actually know how to grade,

but I can't find that out until after I've paid. So that's risky.

 

Sellers who live near Eugene, Oregon, can't be a huge number of people,

so even if they're great, I won't encounter them often.

 

If there is some other reason to use PGX (such as a love for the plastic holder),

then I wonder why they didn't buy just archival boards and nice mylar holders?

 

My conclusion: People who use PGX may be good people, but the "signs" point

to them also being someone who I would not want to deal with as a buyer of their books.

(Not every single person, of course, but the overall risks seem too much for me to "hope" for rewards.)

 

Your own mileage may vary.

 

If you are SELLING a PGX book, I won't be buying.

If I ever buy a PGX book, I'll assume the grade is lower than the label, and bid accordingly.

We'll get to why at the end of this post.

 

If you aren't SELLING a PGX book, then who cares what the "non-existent buyer" thinks?

 

I didn't say EVERYONE who uses PGX is a CROOK.

 

If you're the greatest guy on earth, which most of you OBVIOUSLY are...

then you fit "F) Other" in my list of people who use PGX. Congrats.

 

Congrats on this great honor you've bestowed upon yourself.

 

People still buy from Hammer every day. They're great people too. I'm sure.

They don't care what anyone thinks... they know what's right for them.

Fantastic.

 

This is all my OPINION, and it is an INFORMED OPINION.

 

PGX just isn't an option for me AS A BUYER.

There's CGC, and there's backer boards with mylars.

These are ACCEPTIBLE to me as a buyer of comic books.

 

Unless you're trying to SELL ME a comic, then who cares what I say?

However, there may be others who agree, so you may (not) be selling to them either.

 

Don't I do the CGC Analysis? Yes. For free. For fun.

 

I can do PGX Analysis, too... want to see it?

 

Let's take a book that I know... Shadowman #0.

 

Here's the PGX census for Shadowman #0:

1. SHADOWMAN #0 (Gold Variant) Mint (9.9)

2. SHADOWMAN #0 Mint (9.9)

3. SHADOWMAN #0 Mint (9.9)

4. SHADOWMAN #0 Mint (9.9)

5. SHADOWMAN #0 Mint (9.9)

6. SHADOWMAN #0 (Gold Variant) Mint (9.9)

7. SHADOWMAN #0 (Gold Variant) Near Mint / Mint (9.8)

8. SHADOWMAN #0 Near Mint / Mint (9.8)

9. SHADOWMAN #0 (Gold Variant) Near Mint / Mint (9.8)

10. SHADOWMAN #0 Near Mint (9.4)

 

6 books in PGX 9.9, three in PGX 9.8, and a PGX 9.4

 

60% "MINT" 9.9 ... 60%. Scam.

 

Thank you, and good night.

[Mr. Zipper]

6 books in PGX 9.9, three in PGX 9.8, and a PGX 9.4

 

60% "MINT" 9.9 ... 60%. Scam.

 

Thank you, and good night.

 

PGX might be in bed with Leder and assign gift grades. No one was arguing that point.

 

The point is that you basically insulted just about everyone that ever submitted to PGX. Many collectors and dealers don't know about PGX's woes and see them as a comparable service to CGC. Just because someone would rather pay $20 for a comparable service instead of $50, I'd hardly call them "cheap." Kinda harsh, don't you think?

[Jarren]

I just sent some books to PGX to give it a try, all this talk is making me uncomfortable.

[valiantman]

6 books in PGX 9.9, three in PGX 9.8, and a PGX 9.4

 

60% "MINT" 9.9 ... 60%. Scam.

 

Thank you, and good night.

 

PGX might be in bed with Leder and assign gift grades. No one was arguing that point.

 

The point is that you basically insulted just about everyone that ever submitted to PGX. Many collectors and dealers don't know about PGX's woes and see them as a comparable service to CGC. Just because someone would rather pay $20 for a comparable service instead of $50, I'd hardly call them "cheap." Kinda harsh, don't you think?

 

So you admit the point of caution about PGX, but disagree that I should point it out?

(People who save $2 using PGX on a Modern they plan to sell are CHEAP,

they are the same small-bus-riders who overcharge for Priority Shipping and "Handling",

and then use bubble envelopes and media mail. Yes, I'm calling them out.)

 

You described people who don't know about PGX's problems.

If they don't know about the "scam" then they fit the category of "Ignorant", not "Cheap".

("Ignorant" is not necessarily a putdown. I'm quite ignorant about Japanese calligraphy. I'll admit it.)

 

You probably won't like my opinion of people who purchased Yugos.

(Which matches all the categories above, except, replace "Eugene, Oregon" with "Former Yugoslavia",

and replace "Anti-CGC" with "Anti-GMC".)

 

(Still doesn't make it untrue.)

 

If I believe something to be a scam (Hammer, Pyramid Schemes, "Mystery Lots", and PGX)

then I have a duty to at least try to warn people who ask for opinions.

 

Sorry for being dutiful.

[richnerd]

When I first got into the grading comic book thing I sent my first 3 books to CGC then got as 4 months went by and my books were still waiting to be graded, so I sent my next 3 to the other guy. They made it back before the cgc books did. Oh and to mention 2 of the books I sent to each place were ASM 300 and x-men 266 here were the results.

 

title....................CGC......................other

 

asm 300.............9.2.........................9.8...

 

x-men 266..........8.5.........................9.8...

 

 

In my opinion the better books were sent to CGC as I cherry picked my first 3 books to be sure I sent the best on my first try.

 

I then sold these books at the same time on ebay and the cgc books sold for twice the amount.

 

Since that sale I never went to the other guy but have thought about it many times just because of the turn around time. But usually if I'm getting it graded its to sell for profit. So waiting isn't all that bad.

 

my 2 cents

[Mr. Spider-Woman]

What exactly is this T. Leder connection with PGX? I tried searching the boards but came up with nothing.

[richnerd]

oh let me add this though.. If I was looking to get a complete run done say 100 books just to help store the books. I would think really hard about the other company. I know before I sold my Cap collection and was planning on getting it all graded I was thinking about it. Since it wasn't for resell value and it was just to help keep them in good shape.

[Davenport]

What exactly is this T. Leder connection with PGX? I tried searching the boards but came up with nothing.

Here's Old Guy's site: PGX/Leder

[Mr. Spider-Woman]

What exactly is this T. Leder connection with PGX? I tried searching the boards but came up with nothing.

Here's Old Guy's site: PGX/Leder

 

Oh boy. That is way too much to read but it gives me a pretty good idea of what the problem is. Thank you kindly for the link.

[lizards2]

Thanks to everyone who provided info on this thread - I'm new, so didn't know any of the history on this situation. I guess I fit into the "ignorant" category on this situation until today, but now I'm enlightened.

 

I do have to say that this, along with the Ewert and Spectre52 threads, makes me very leary of any high-graded, high-dollared, slabbed books. I guess it's a good thing I don't have the high-dollars to spend on such things.

[Davenport]

 

I do have to say that this, along with the Ewert and Spectre52 threads, makes me very leary of any high-graded, high-dollared, slabbed books. I guess it's a good thing I don't have the high-dollars to spend on such things.

Leery? Why?

 

Check out the journey of this book, since it's not exactly a key or high demand issue. It's, uh, aging well.

 

$32.00 Our Army at War #166 9.0 VF/NM

$141.50 Our Army at War #166 CGC 9.4

$295 Our Army at War #166 CGC 9.4

[lizards2]

Uhhh...., undisclosed restoration in a CGC slab?

[lizards2]

 

I do have to say that this, along with the Ewert and Spectre52 threads, makes me very leary of any high-graded, high-dollared, slabbed books. I guess it's a good thing I don't have the high-dollars to spend on such things.

Leery? Why?

 

Check out the journey of this book, since it's not exactly a key or high demand issue. It's, uh, aging well.

 

$32.00 Our Army at War #166 9.0 VF/NM

$141.50 Our Army at War #166 CGC 9.4

$295 Our Army at War #166 CGC 9.4

 

Oh, whoops! I didn't see the full message.

 

Sigh. I guess I''ve been in the hobby for about 35 years, so I'm in it for the long haul. Not to cash out by willfully deceiving others, and not caring about the future of the hobby.

[Mr. Zipper]

I do have to say that this, along with the Ewert and Spectre52 threads, makes me very leary of any high-graded, high-dollared, slabbed books. I guess it's a good thing I don't have the high-dollars to spend on such things.

 

The old adage, "If it's too good to be true, it probably is," should be the official motto of high grade slab collecting.

 

I don't have thousands to spend on single HG slabs either, but be aware that -- for some books -- there is also plenty of profit potential in upgrading 5.0s to 7.0s.

[Inhuman Fiend]

One of many existing discussions...

PGX vs CGC

 

...Given these facts, here's my opinion:

 

If someone uses PGX instead of CGC, despite the facts above, they are either:

A) Cheap (since PGX is cheaper than CGC)

B) Sneaky (since CGC might catch whatever they're trying to hide)

C) Anti-CGC (just giving money to the competition out of spite)

D) near Eugene, Oregon (since PGX would be the local grading company)

E) Ignorant (not recognizing the industry signs, or not doing any research)

F) Other

 

As a regular buyer of comic books on Ebay, I am generally not interested

in dealing with comic book sellers who are Cheap, Sneaky, or Ignorant.

 

 

 

If someone collects VALIANT comics instead of Marvel or DC, they are either:

 

A) Cheap (since Valiant back issues are worthless and therefore much cheaper than Marvel or DC)

B) Sneaky (they have to be in order to avoid ridicule from other collectors)

C) Anti-Marvel and DC (just giving money to the competition out of spite)

D) Love Rob Liefield (yikes)

E) Ignorant (nobody told them that Valiant comics were overprinted by the gazillions and not worthy of being collected)

 

[OldGuy]

What exactly is this T. Leder connection with PGX? I tried searching the boards but came up with nothing.

Here's Old Guy's site: PGX/Leder

 

That is way too much to read......