Hulk 1

[ghoulaid]

I agree, it's not the blades but poor paper quality that leads to Marvel Chipping. I also wonder if the grain of the paper is going the "wrong way" compared to DC books from that era? Now that I think about it, probably not, since it's on rolls.

[ghoulaid]

And Im sure at least 300 (600??) more are out there in the hands of collectors not yet interested in selling.

 

Yep, I've got one in my collection too. It's a desirable book but not especially rare. I'm sure the UK edition is rarer than the stateside edition but also has less demand. You want rare? I have a Detective ANNUAL from the early '60s but there's no demand because 99.9% of collectors don't know such a thing exists!

[Kevin76]

I agree, it's not the blades but poor paper quality that leads to Marvel Chipping. I also wonder if the grain of the paper is going the "wrong way" compared to DC books from that era? Now that I think about it, probably not, since it's on rolls.

 

Not all paper is created equal,I'm almost certain Marvel and DC was using brands of paper at the time,DC seems like it was using a high quailty than Marvel was,still both newsprint though

[Aman619]

weent both DC and Marvel using the same printer at the time???

Why would they use 2 different paper stocks..doesnt make sense.

[Aman619]

And Im sure at least 300 (600??) more are out there in the hands of collectors not yet interested in selling.

 

Yep, I've got one in my collection too. It's a desirable book but not especially rare. I'm sure the UK edition is rarer than the stateside edition but also has less demand. You want rare? I have a Detective ANNUAL from the early '60s but there's no demand because 99.9% of collectors don't know such a thing exists!

 

wait a minute - - A DetectiveComics (as in Batman) Annual?? Never heard of it. Lets see a scan! What am I missing here....

[Kevin76]

weent both DC and Marvel using the same printer at the time???

Why would they use 2 different paper stocks..doesnt make sense.

 

Why not? We print flyers (sunday inserts) and every job has a different paper stock,different pound,brand name,coated,uncoated,newsprint,ect...I don't have any DC Silver age books,but I'll let you know and compare them to the Marvels from 62

[Aman619]

switching in and out different reams of 8.5x11 paper is very different from a large printing company that specializes in comic books on huge web presses! Perhaps they changed the rolls on the days they printed for each company, having DC and Marvel book a complete day.... but I dont really know

[Bugaboo-migration]

...its still a foreign version of an American comic. Yes it can be argued that its a "variant" but to date, hardly anyone, even the avowed variant collectors are remotely interested in pence editions. Rarity is only one function to value in a collectible. The rarest example of something for which demand is rarer still is not going to ever be worth much. Will this change in the future? For your sake I hope so.

I wholeheartedly second that statement, aman619.

 

Netmaster, I'm glad you like your book, and I'm sure it's a wonderful copy. However, you're preaching to the wrong people if you think you'll convince anyone in here that's it's more desirable than an American version. Yes, it may be more rare, but the pence copies of American comics just tend to sell for less than the American priced versions. That's just a fact. It doesn't really matter how many numbers are quoted or when it was printed, or if the blades were sharper when it was manufactured. The market just does not support the theory that it's more valuable.

 

And, as far as I know, they aren't considered "variants" over here. Just foreign priced copies of the same comic made for sale in another country. True price variants over here have alternate (higher) prices, are made for sale in America, and are put on the shelves at the same time as the regular priced versions.

[Kevin76]

switching in and out different reams of 8.5x11 paper is very different from a large printing company that specializes in comic books on huge web presses! Perhaps they changed the rolls on the days they printed for each company, having DC and Marvel book a complete day.... but I dont really know

 

Sunday inserts are not printed on 8.5 x 11 paper,they are printed on web presses with paper with of up to 65 3/4,Walmart uses 65 /34 slightly coated stock to print thier flyers,Rolls weigh close to 4000lbs. 45 inch diaminatar rolls.

[Aman619]

when you said flyers I thought you meant hand out flyers. sorry. With your experience then, do you think Sparta printed on different stock for DC and Marvel at their request to save one of them $$$s? I would think they would negotiate with whoever printed less that they use the same paper as their bigger client to make it easier for them to schedule print runs for both?

[Kevin76]

when you said flyers I thought you meant hand out flyers. sorry. With your experience then, do you think Sparta printed on different stock for DC and Marvel at their request to save one of them $$$s? I would think they would negotiate with whoever printed less that they use the same paper as their bigger client to make it easier for them to schedule print runs for both?

 

You got to remeber Marvel was "trying something new" when FF Spider-man and Thor came around in 1962,DC was King,they could afford the quality paper,Marvel I can see going to a cheaper stock at the time,Notice the paper quality improved during the late 60's? Another reason why early Marvel is so hard to find in 9.0 or better.The customer chooses the paper BTW.After each job is done and "make ready" is done,New plates are put on,New Stock is loaded,new equipment is added or taken away up front ( ex.trimmers are set up) angle bars and comps are moved ect...The customer has to pay for setting up the job and is configured into the cost of the print run.

[Aman619]

yeah, I know about make-up generally, and that the client chooses paper and pays for set-up etc. but depending on the difference in cost of the 2 kinds of paper (which must have been cheap and cheaper since no comics jobs were EVER high quality productions) I would think there was a possibility that the printer would rather take a small hit on paper rather than switch out different rolls of paper for each comics client. After all, even with a setup charge for the down time, a printer makes their money when the presses are running. So any step that keeps them up more of the time is more profitable.

 

And, they wouldnt have to switch any equipment since both clients are making comics. Which, as Ive always believed, was ALL Sparta printed back then..

 

But, there must re a resourch still alive thta can explain every step in detail once and for all! Perhaos one of our Gemstone posters (Arnold?) can scare up an essay from contacts they have?

[dolphinsrwj]

speaking of quality of paper,is it just me or does dcs comics nowdays seem A LOT better quality than marvel?it just seems like batmans and some others tend to look and hold up better than any of the ultimate lines or amaz spiderman.

[Netmaster-migration]

The blades don't get sharpened,the get replaces when ever it is needed,once the start cutting like S T that is.This is not the reason for the marvel chipping,poor paper quailty is

 

I never said that the blades got sharpened during print runs. I happen to know that they were just replaced, but not until they where so dull that they started to do serious damage .

 

The reason for chipping isn't just the paper quality. While the fact it was basically newsprint did play a part, chipping has also been found on a number of early DC print runs (and others) as well. The condition of the equipment used in production did play a part in chipping as well.

 

As for the varients being less sought after I've already explaind the reason for that. Besides the collectors I talk to are all seemingly aware of varients being less sought after, while at the same time, rarely found (but that is why almost all look for them and buy them when they happen to find any) Serious collectors know that rarity, no matter what the monitary value, is what makes something valueable in the comic book sense, especially if its a rare varient of a very prominant character.

 

As far as varients not going for as much as main printings I've seen the results of many auctions that would prove otherwise.

[Aman619]

all DCs? I think the paper used today is all over the map: different kinds for different titles selling at different prices. There must be some internal consistency to it at DC and Marvel, but I dont see it. Going to the cashier at the store, I see 2.25, 2.50, 2.75, 2.95, 2.99, 3.25, 3.50. 3.75. 3.95. 3.99. 4.95. 5.95. etc etc etc.

 

ALso interesting to note si that many of DCs comics with better slicker paper have pages printed on inferior Mando-like high-end newsprint stock. Just the ads. Youd think they would rate the better paper?

[rob_react]

I've never seen so much advocacy for pence copies in my life before today.

 

it's spreading:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2180372146&category=32734

 

 

[Bugaboo-migration]

Serious collectors know that rarity, no matter what the monitary value, is what makes something valueable in the comic book sense, especially if its a rare varient of a very prominant character.

 

Just keep telling yourself that.

[rob_react]

As far as varients not going for as much as main printings I've seen the results of many auctions that would prove otherwise.

 

Post them.

[Netmaster-migration]

Just keep telling yourself that.

 

Is money the only reason you collect for Bugaboo? If so then thats fine, but don't make me out to be a dumb [!@#%^&^] just because the varients I collects may not go for as much as some of the main prints would. I sometimes collect for monitary value too but mainly I collect for rarity and if I see something that I,ve never have seen or heard of before, and I like the book, then I'll buy it.

 

As for posting auctions on varients, I've already admitted to you Rob that varients are hard to come by (that means sales and auctions) and that they sometimes do go for less money but that I have seen some auctions in the past that have ended in prices that would have been about the same or more had it been a main printing. Besides it looks like you've already posted one for me in one of your previous posts. Just look at how much time is left in the auction: six days and twelve hours is an eternity in auction time. If it doesn't go over at least 500 I'll be very surprised. Kind to think of it, a good copy of #5 is even harder to find than #1. I'll probably contact the seller to find out the grade. I just might bid on that myself!! Thanks Rob

 

I don't know why some of you people keep being so hostile, I'm just trying to have a nice conversation on some of the issues I have found, while trying to get some input on some issues some of you might have found, but if none of you are interested then I'll promptly leave this thread. After all, I know when I'm not wanted.

[rob_react]

Besides it looks like you've already posted one for me in one of your previous posts. Just look at how much time is left in the auction: six days and twelve hours is an eternity in auction time. If it doesn't go over at least 500 I'll be very surprised. Kind to think of it, a good copy of #5 is even harder to find than #1. I'll probably contact the seller to find out the grade. I just might bid on that myself!! Thanks Rob

 

I don't know why some of you people keep being so hostile, I'm just trying to have a nice conversation on some of the issues I have found, while trying to get some input on some issues some of you might have found, but if none of you are interested then I'll promptly leave this thread. After all, I know when I'm not wanted.

 

We're not being hostile. It's just that you're presenting an opinion that is exactly opposite our personal experience with pence copies and acting like we're just ignorant. That's a frustrating approach.

 

As for the auction I posted, the BIN is set at less than condition guide (it's 7.0 and right in the auction title), so I'm not sure how much even the seller believes his own line.

 

You said you've seen examples though. Can you post any or even describe them?