Re: The Next Big Hit...

[comicwiz]

The article

 

The company

 

I know you are all probably thinking, what the heck does this have to do with comics? It doesn't take a PHD to figure out the music industry is struggling with the advent of MP3 technology, and music piracy with P2P technology like Kazaa. As ridiculous as hit song science sounds, its actually being touted as one of the modern day breakthroughs in the music industry, and it goes without saying, ALL THE MAJOR RECORD COMPANIES are feverishly chasing this company in hope of acquiring a piece of its concept/technology.

 

Do you think that in the age of single-ish comics, and the inner struggles found in the modern comic market, that something like this should be adopted in the comic market? There are still some great stories being written, but the percentage of good stuff is so low, that it begs the question, why don't the major comic publishers come up with something like this? Think about it; even if you have some of the best writers already onboard, why wouldn't you open up the possibilities of allowing up-and-coming talent to "submit" their work through something like what hitsongscience does for music, for the leading comic publishers? Submission could allow artwork, and written scripts, or even a full blowns story ready for review by the powers that be. I don't mean to say this is a "can't miss" idea, but I also believe that there is huge potential with an idea like this, and it may well allow Marvel and DC (as well as any new comic companies) to explore the scores of undiscovered artists and writers who are otherwise found stocking shelves, pushing shopping carts and are too busy raising kids.

[sckao]

 

I don't think there's too much analysis needed for the comic book industry.. especially given the low amount of relative output. It doesn't take a genius to recognize good writing and art. The industry doesn't need to recognize potential hits.. it needs to find a way to remain relevant with each generation.

 

This new Trouble series is interesting as it is a concerted effort by Marvel to penetrate the bookseller space (and the young female demographic.)

 

What the industry really needs is a way for the next generation to be able to buy and afford comic books. That it may not be in paper form is unfortunate.. but I don't see people really complaining about the VHS tapes going away or going from floppy disk to CDR (or USB plugin storage devices)

 

 

[comicwiz]

I don't think there's too much analysis needed for the comic book industry.. especially given the low amount of relative output. It doesn't take a genius to recognize good writing and art. The industry doesn't need to recognize potential hits.. it needs to find a way to remain relevant with each generation.

 

I wasn't only looking at it that way, but rather a fresh look into allowing a higher degree of participation, and the exploration of new ideas that wouldn't come in through conventional channels.

 

What the industry really needs is a way for the next generation to be able to buy and afford comic books.

 

Have you seen how much magic/pokemon cards are selling for? Have you asked comic store retailers whether they are having trouble selling them? I don't think cost is as much an issue as appeal in relation to the apparent slump in new comic book sales.

[500Club]

Appeal is a definite problem.

 

The perception seems to be that a $2-$3 comic is too expensive for Mom to buy, but a $5 pack of cards is no problem.

 

I think Marvel is trying the non-conventional methods by trying to hire creators from outside the established comic community. Cross Gen is certainly trying new ways of formatting their material. Hopefully some of these methods will work.

[comicwiz]

I think Marvel is trying the non-conventional methods by trying to hire creators from outside the established comic community. Cross Gen is certainly trying new ways of formatting their material. Hopefully some of these methods will work.

 

Anyone have any examples of exactly how Marvel and Cross-gen are doing this?

 

I don't mean to sound like I'm beating this topic over the head, but I've known a few artists who freelanced for some of the major comic publishers at one time or another, and I got the sense from speaking to these artists that the process was "pro-establishment" and very disconnected from reality. I'm not suggesting a revolution, but some change that won't seem so intimidating to young artists or writers to approach comic publishers with new thoughts and ideas. A higher degree of interaction within the mix of artists & repertoire, and between the readership and the artists/writers can only serve to improve what ails the modus operandi.

 

Its this prevailing "snobbery" and stoicism within the establishment that serves to discourage a new talent from ever contributing. IMO, its attitudes like this that make it nearly impossible for any resurgence of change to occur. New ideas and some fresh thinking may be all the new comic market needs to stir some excitement, and recruit young readership. In this age of the quick and the dead, the new comic market badly needs to adopt some new world thinking, or face the pain of extinction.

[Aman619]

"outside the comics community" doesnt mean new inexperienced talent searches. It refers to Straczinski. Professional writers and artists from OUTSIDE comics completely for a breath of fresh air on our often tired conventional and inbred thinking...

[500Club]

Anyone have any examples of exactly how Marvel and Cross-gen are doing this?

 

Straczynski, Smith, Kia Asamiya etc.... getting some new creative blood. Epic... allowing open submissions, which has allowed J.J. Miller from CBG a crack at the industry, and is open to new talent. Trouble and the new Tsunami line... an attempt to appeal to different/new readers.

 

As far as CrossGen goes, they've consistently tried to explore new genres, their attempt to produce anthologies was worthwhile (albeit unsuccessful), and the new 'travellers' format of tpb may allow better product success in traditional bookstores.

 

Why don't you go ahead and give an example of how you feel the idea you've proposed could be applied....

[sckao]

 

Have you seen how much magic/pokemon cards are selling for? Have you asked comic store retailers whether they are having trouble selling them? I don't think cost is as much an issue as appeal in relation to the apparent slump in new comic book sales.

 

There's a perception of "Value" associated with each item. A comic book may be perceived by parents as having a one-time value of approximately 15-30 minutes... the time it takes to read a comic book.

 

A deck of cards may occupy their child for hours on end. Also, the pursuit of a complete card deck is something that has no analogy in the comic book world for ongoing series. It's possible to complete a basic Magic card or Pokemon set (with additionial hard to find rare cards keeping the search going..) while it's not economically feasible for a parent to, say, complete their child's Spider-man set. (unless they renumber... which is something that the companies have done to the detriment of older fans.)

 

One also fits in the hand and is portable while the other is touted as being "fragile" and in need of bagging and boarding. A child can trade extra Magic or Pokemon cards with their friends which is something that they cannot do with comics.

 

Video games and computer games go for about $40-50 retail... but everyone seems to understand that the 20+ hours or so that it will take to complete the game (or the hundreds of hours it may take to master a fighting or sports game) changes the inherent value and mitigates the high initial cost.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[comicwiz]

Epic... allowing open submissions, which has allowed J.J. Miller from CBG a crack at the industry, and is open to new talent.

 

Epic Submissions

 

Not bad. Thanks for posting this example. I do however have an issue with their exclusion of submissions, and not allowing anyone under the age of 18 to submit their work. One of the best raw talents I have ever had the pleasure of working with was a 15 year-old writer. He is now 17, and could write far better than some of the professional work I have read.

 

Why don't you go ahead and give an example of how you feel the idea you've proposed could be applied....

 

The fact that Epic have not allowed mixed media formats for submission is mind-boggling. Innovation sometimes means not only breaking the mold, but forever relinquishing the task of building the cast. Asking people to provide fresh new ideas, while still keeping with tradition (rigid submission practices, and working within the existing framework) will discourage many talented individuals from ever submitting their work.

 

One thing is for certain. The lines between the printed and digital worlds are completely blurred, and any company with forward thinking ought to realize the importance of exploring new ways of delivering content to the masses. Here's a suggestion: why not allow artists, animators, graphic designers and freehand illustrators an equal opportunity to not only submit their work through a web site, but to allow web site visitors the opportunity to view their submissions for the purpose of reviewing their work, and providing comic publishers with helpful feedback and constructive criticism on the submitted work? For the ambitious minded, allowing short and long flash/web-film submissions for critical review and viewing, similar to a film festival for motion picture. These ideas may seem to many a stretch, but as the old proverb states "Tell me and I may forget. Show me and I may remember. Involve me and I will understand," Sometimes ideas that seem so ridiculous at first glance slowly take shape and begin to form, and soon we realize that the only thing ridiculous is that we didn't see its potential sooner.

[500Club]

I do however have an issue with their exclusion of submissions, and not allowing anyone under the age of 18 to submit their work.

 

This is a legal issue, I suspect. There is age precedent in the industry - Shooter started writing for DC at age 13.

 

Here's a suggestion: why not allow artists, animators, graphic designers and freehand illustrators an equal opportunity to not only submit their work through a web site, but to allow web site visitors the opportunity to view their submissions for the purpose of reviewing their work, and providing comic publishers with helpful feedback and constructive criticism on the submitted work? For the ambitious minded, allowing short and long flash/web-film submissions for critical review and viewing, similar to a film festival for motion picture

 

Is it cost feasible? Marvel's still working to improve a bad balance sheet. DC doesn't show much motivation to it's comic properties beyond having them act as ongoing loss leaders.

[comicwiz]

Is it cost feasible? Marvel's still working to improve a bad balance sheet. DC doesn't show much motivation to it's comic properties beyond having them act as ongoing loss leaders.

 

Marvel is probably in a buy out mode. When companies are in this type of mode, they are not looking too far ahead into the future. They are just trying to look as appealing as possible to other companies that are interested in making some acquisitions. Unfortunately, this also mean looking at everything, down the finest detail, using a cost/benefit approach. I agree that implementing some of the ideas/concepts I mentioned may be fiscally draining within the first 6 months to a year of deployment, but depending on the company and how it is marketed and utilized, using such methods as we have discussed ought also be considered an investment into the future; for instance: i) maintaining and reinforcing brand recognition, and transgress into an all-ages readership (something Marvel and DC have only been able to maintain thus far with the back-issue/collectable market); ii) broadening the way in which to entice the talent pool of new artists and writers, in an effort to keep stories and art as exciting to its readers as when we first laid eyes on people like Adams, Byrne, McFarlane and Lee (I'm talking more modern stuff here, and artists that had an impact on me personally -- so don't tackle me all at once)

 

I don't know whether these approaches that have been mentioned, or the example of Epics current methods are even remotely worth the effort and cost to administer. But I think it has a lot to say about a companys character and their ability to adapt to the ever changing ecomony -- and to take such risks in trying to maintain its foothold in the doorway of the future.

[Aman619]

even today I think Marvel (publishing especially) is not looking any farther ahead than the next wave of books to sell more - - like they always have. They have never planned for any future like a real business plan, and arent now either IMO. Sure you may argue that Ike and Avi want to spruce up the numbers for a sale etc...and they may have that in mind when they see a peak to get out at. But that mindset is not why Marvel isnt actively seeking alternative or innovative ideas that would require investments of time and money.

 

The CHARACTERS are the thing...not how they are published or used. Rather than look for new ways to publish them, they would seek new partners to gamble their money while paying hefty license fees.