"Limited Distribution in Some Areas" - Conan #3 / SS#4

[BLBcomics-migration]

We got new ones from Gilboy in Oakland, Golden Gate in San Fran, Milligans in San Jose. Each had as their territory pretty much the confines i lay out here - my understanding is Gilboy and Golden Gate merged some time back

 

Great Stuff were these the ID Magazine Distributors of the time or DM Distributors? and if they were the DM Distributors did they supply you with the Normal newstand copy's or the DM copy's mainly interested in the late 70's? Any ideal what year Gilboy & Golden Gate merged? What were some of the last books you got from the east mafia books?

 

On the Star Wars books you mean that #4 had a larger print run than #1 at least for the first printings.

 

You say their were 900 ID's back in the eairly 70's wondering how you know this was their a list somewhere, it sure would be cool to have a list with the territory that they handeled . How many ID's did you know? and How many DM Distributors were their in the eairly and then late 70's I am guessing not many?

 

There used to be a huge network of ID distributors spread out into every area of the USA - each large type city had its distributor, and surrounding areas - pumping out periodicals of all stripes and kinds, including comic books and paper backs

 

Some of the larger paperback publishers were the first to pull away from the ID system, hiring their own salesmen who came into the larger retail outlets and placed orders, which were then "direct" shipped

 

The UG publishes of the San Fran Bay Area set up similar type distribution systems beginning circa 1968 when ZAP COMICS and others were taken national with Print Mint - and rip Off Press, Last Gasp, Krupp (Kitchen) etc followed the same type system

 

In the beginning of when DC & Marvel joined into this "direct" to the retailer system, there was just Phil Seuling, who became known as Sea Gate some years later, beginning in late 1973

 

A few months later the Donahoe Bruddders out of Ann Arbor Michigan became the second DM distributor for both DC and Marvel - they wer ea bane upon the DM, as they never paid any bills, and were forced out of business within six months, but not before burning DC in a big way. The Donahoe Brudders were opened by Carmine Infantino personally, then publisher of DC

 

Infantino then made Sueling a monopoly on DC until 1979 - long story there

 

The 3rd DM distributor was Pacific, out of San Diego - they had Marvel direct, but were subordinated for DCs thru Seuling

 

When the Seuling DC monopoly was broken in 1979, more DM distributors opened up

 

At one time there were 19 DM distributors - now there is one again 30 years later

 

If you bought ID copies from an ID distributor, then you got ID copies

 

DM-type copies began with Star Wars era comic books, when they began reprinting them, there is where the evolution began for DM copies - the UPC code box used for computer controlled bar codes inventory control had a Direct Market tag placed there instead

 

All copies still being printed in Sparta Illinois

 

I do not remember what the very last mafia books we got shipped to the west coast. Mostly we bought Conan 1 2 4 as that Barry Smith title was the guaranteed hottest one to turn over, and not a risk buying 300 case lots at a time (the only way you could get the books to be sent to the west coast)

 

As the DM got larger, and once the Seuling monopoly was broken asunder, one could pre order as many copies as one wanted, as the other DMs gave credit lines varying from 10 days to 20 days, with them having to pay DC and Marvel by 45 days after shipping

 

The ID system at least for comic books shrank over time - and while they were the main suppliers for a comic book store for a long time, by 1979 that aspect of the business was nil

 

Yes, star Wars 4 5 6 first printings were larger into the DM than 1 2 3, which came out before the movie came out, BTW. No one knew what an unproven SF movie comic book would do

 

The movie came out, all hell broke loose, guys like me began to call Marvel, demanding more copies of 1 2 3 any way possible to satisfy a then crazy demand

 

As far as ID distributor lists, yes i have them. I have been working on a comics business history book for some time now. I have ID trade journals sent to all retailers beginning in 1919 when American News Company first began issuing their own in-house trade journal to all their customers.I have a complete run of ANC's trade journal 1919-1957. I also have trade journals in broken runs from most all other distributors in the 1930s 1940s 1950s 1960s - a wealth of data to be gleaned - i do my home work

[BLBcomics-migration]

Bob, Thanks for your insights . . . and the history - D

 

Yer welcome, if it occurred from 1967 up, i basicly lived the experiences, especially when i went full time in 1972 in the comic book biz

[Monstro]

dumb question i'm sure, but does it ever drive you crazy that you didn't hold onto some of those crates of comics.

[BLBcomics-migration]

dumb question i'm sure, but does it ever drive you crazy that you didn't hold onto some of those crates of comics.

 

what drove me crazy is my comics company Best of Two Worlds suffered a ware house flood in Feb 1986 and by that time there wee a million comic books in it

 

some 3000 pages of original comic book covers and pages of art were also destroyed

 

took me a while to recover

[Monstro]

wow, how horrible

[BLBcomics-migration]

knocked me out of my "big time" perch in the funny book retail biz

[cosmic-spider-man]

what drove me crazy is my comics company Best of Two Worlds suffered a ware house flood in Feb 1986 and by that time there wee a million comic books in it

 

some 3000 pages of original comic book covers and pages of art were also destroyed

 

took me a while to recover

 

Very sorry to hear this that is just awful was the 3000 pages of art completely destroyed or just really bad water damaged. Hope they were not completely destroyed, what were some of those Original Covers? Loosing a Million comics is a real sad thing also, hate to hear that.

 

When is your History book comming out that sounds like something I really, really want to buy. Are you going to include list of the ID Magazine Distributors in that book I would be real interested in learning who the ID's in my area were in the mid to late 70's. I am real interested in all about the ID Magazine Distributors of 70's and how that all worked. Also very interested in those earily DM comics and how those were distributed in 1977-79 time frame.

 

Thanks for the great post I think it is the best I have read on hear in a long time and I really enjoyed every bit of it. If theirs anything you want to talk about on hear I am sure I am not the only one who love to read it.I have lots more questions about all this stuff but I will save them for later.

[cosmic-spider-man]

There used to be a huge network of ID distributors spread out into every area of the USA - each large type city had its distributor, and surrounding areas - pumping out periodicals of all stripes and kinds, including comic books and paper backs

 

 

Ok so say a state like where I live Tennessee only has 4 city's of any size at all would that mean that TN. probably had 4 ID Magazine Distributors that covered the whole state back in the 1970's? And was it likely that some ID's area extended outside their state, like say Memphis TN. who is kind of on the edge of the state could that ID's area have extended in to the surronding states of Arkansas, Mississippi & Missouri?

 

 

 

When the Seuling DC monopoly was broken in 1979, more DM distributors opened up

 

 

Was Seuling's Sea Gate the only DM sorce up till 1979 why I ask is I am interested in those DM Marvel comics that came out before then. I assume that Whitman was the sorce of these since I think they only came in Whitman 3 packs, Did Whitman get them through Sea Gate? Were their other sorces of them besides Whitman where they were sold? Hear is a picture did you ever get any of these in your Stores?

 

[Monstro]

you selling those?

[cosmic-spider-man]

Sorry No those are ones I want to keep .

[Monstro]

don't blame you

[BLBcomics-migration]

There used to be a huge network of ID distributors spread out into every area of the USA - each large type city had its distributor, and surrounding areas - pumping out periodicals of all stripes and kinds, including comic books and paper backs

 

 

Ok so say a state like where I live Tennessee only has 4 city's of any size at all would that mean that TN. probably had 4 ID Magazine Distributors that covered the whole state back in the 1970's? And was it likely that some ID's area extended outside their state, like say Memphis TN. who is kind of on the edge of the state could that ID's area have extended in to the surronding states of Arkansas, Mississippi & Missouri?

 

 

 

When the Seuling DC monopoly was broken in 1979, more DM distributors opened up

 

 

 

Was Seuling's Sea Gate the only DM sorce up till 1979 why I ask is I am interested in those DM Marvel comics that came out before then. I assume that Whitman was the source of these since I think they only came in Whitman 3 packs, Did Whitman get them through Sea Gate? Were there other sources of them besides Whitman where they were sold? Here is a picture did you ever get any of these in your Stores?

 

 

In reply to your previous email, one example of the art destroyed in that 1986 flooding, the same flooding which wiped out Eclipse Comics same week end, located some 43 miles from Best of Two World's central warehouse, were about 30 pages of Russ Manning's Magnus Robot Fighter

 

Re ID distributors in Tennesse, yes, that would as a rule be true, maybe even 2 or 3, not that every city HAD to have an ID - I would have to dig out my file folder of these ID lists i have built up which span most of the 20th century, distributorships being bought & sold, these alliances would shift around a bit - and some ID distributorships would cross state lines, to be sure, in any given area

 

Re your 2nd query

 

Sparta printed all the books

 

Seuling and other DM distributors got their copies form Sparta, and as the DM grew, a concept of what was then called a "drop point" developed

 

I was at one time a "drop point" for Sea Gate, Big Rapids, Glenwood, New Media, Capital City

 

I got a little bit better discount and my employees broke down the shipments for us as well as the other comic book store guys who came in and paid me

 

Whitman contracted with Marvel and DC to make up those 3 packs

 

Whitman was a separate distributorship than ID distributors - i know, cuz i used to have a direct account with Whitman, publisher of Gold Key (BTW)

 

I would order those 3 packs you picture as well as other 3 packs over the years. I opened up with Whitman direct to get at their Gold Key imprint, as i was a big mover of "kid" comics such as the Disney & Warner Bros, Little Lulu, etc Gold Key published after Whitman was breaking away from Dell in 1962

 

When i was ten years old in 1962, i used to get 3 packs of DCs distributed by Whitman in grocery stores, when cover prices were 12 cents each, anyhoo, they would be 3 for 29 cents each

 

Seagate's size was as a pimple compared to the size of Whitman. In the late 1970s to open up with Whitman required a 41500 a month minimum order size

 

If you have more queries (you or others) please do not hesitate to ask - what you do is jog my memory

[HighVoltage]

I was at one time a "drop point" for Sea Gate, Big Rapids, Glenwood, New Media, Capital City

 

I got a little bit better discount and my employees broke down the shipments for us as well as the other comic book store guys who came in and paid me

 

 

Bob - would you happen to know if Rozanski was also a 'drop point'? I'm talking maybe late 70's & into the 80's...

[cosmic-spider-man]

Seagate's size was as a pimple compared to the size of Whitman. In the late 1970s to open up with Whitman required a 41500 a month minimum order size

 

 

So these comics in the 3 packs I posted above had no purpose for the Direct Market at all in 1977 rather they were especially printed at Sparta for Whitman to sell in their 3 packs is this right? And the Marvel comics that Sea Gate (the DM) sold were just the regular newstand copy's at least up until 1979?

 

 

I was at one time a "drop point" for Sea Gate, Big Rapids, Glenwood, New Media, Capital City

 

Could you explain this more what is a "drop point" did you just Warehouse comics for the DM Distributors to be shipped to the smaller retailers?

 

Back to those comics in those 3 packs I pictured above I was wondering that if these were printed especailly for Whitman why did they not have Whitman printed anywhere on the comics? The DC comics of the same time printed for Whitman all had Whitman printed on the covers . Makes me think that maybe they were not just for Whitman?

[BLBcomics-migration]

I was at one time a "drop point" for Sea Gate, Big Rapids, Glenwood, New Media, Capital City

 

I got a little bit better discount and my employees broke down the shipments for us as well as the other comic book store guys who came in and paid me

 

 

Bob - would you happen to know if Rozanski was also a 'drop point'? I'm talking maybe late 70's & into the 80's...

 

Yes he was Direct on Marvel, never with DC - he got those elsewhere and function as a DC drop point, which is just an industry term then being used to designate a shipment would come direct to the drop point via truck, usually Yellow Freight for us out on the west coast.

 

- one had to hit a certain dollar value to become a drop point. If your own store(s) were not hitting that magic number (which kept creeping upwards inflation style as time went on), you went out and hustled new accounts, which kept the DM growing in size, as there were, like i wrote previously, at the height of the DM, like 19 Direct distributor accounts with Marvel, less with DC

[BLBcomics-migration]

Seagate's size was as a pimple compared to the size of Whitman. In the late 1970s to open up with Whitman required a 41500 a month minimum order size

 

 

So these comics in the 3 packs I posted above had no purpose for the Direct Market at all in 1977 rather they were especially printed at Sparta for Whitman to sell in their 3 packs is this right? And the Marvel comics that Sea Gate (the DM) sold were just the regular newstand copy's at least up until 1979?

 

 

I was at one time a "drop point" for Sea Gate, Big Rapids, Glenwood, New Media, Capital City

 

Could you explain this more what is a "drop point" did you just Warehouse comics for the DM Distributors to be shipped to the smaller retailers?

 

Back to those comics in those 3 packs I pictured above I was wondering that if these were printed especailly for Whitman why did they not have Whitman printed anywhere on the comics? The DC comics of the same time printed for Whitman all had Whitman printed on the covers . Makes me think that maybe they were not just for Whitman?

 

I should qualify that 41500 Whitman figure as $1500 - my finger must have missed the shift key

 

How do you know those particular bagged comics were from Whitman - i do not see Whitman on the scans

 

And, nope, in any regard, the bagged comics were for OUTSIDE the Direct Market - if from Whitman, you had to buy em directly from Whitman - and you had to buy $1500 a month worth of Whitman products to be direct - and i was, and i bought and sold a lot of their non-comic book comics oriented products such as jigsaw puzzles, coloring books featuring Disney and other licensed characters they handled

 

A drop point was an industry term then used to designate where the trucking company (usually Yellow Freight as they had the contract out of Sparta), would drop the shipment at your door step - and those of us who wanted them quicker than that went to pick them up at the freight terminal - a lot of work, loading up, unloading, breaking down the boxes, making sure the inventory count per title was accurate before letting any one have any copies

'

One time a load of Frank Miller Daredevil was all Marvel Two In One - talk about a mad scramble that week.

 

I would not say the Marvels you pictured were printed especially for Whitman, they simply bagged up a portion of the print runs - DC's deal would obviously been different

[cosmic-spider-man]

How do you know those particular bagged comics were from Whitman - i do not see Whitman on the scans

 

I don't realy know for sure but the bags have a free prize inside, and in one of those bags is a game that says by Western publishing company on it. I was kind of hoping that you might know if these bags were from Whitman or not, Did you ever get any of them in your Whitman orders from 1977-79?

 

 

would not say the Marvels you pictured were printed especially for Whitman, they simply bagged up a portion of the print runs - DC's deal would obviously been different

 

 

I have just been trying to nail down where these comics came from they are printed different from the normal print run they have the price and issue number in a large diamond and allot of them do not have UPC codes so I figured (no UPC code) they were not ment for the ID Magazine Distributors. So if their not for the Direct Market and they are not for the Newstands are they printed like this for Whitman? I guess that will be a tough one to figure out.

 

 

I was wondering something else you talked about buying cases of 300 Conan's comics from that East cost Warehouse. Did Comics normanly get shipped from the Sparta plant in cases of 300 comics? Was their a minum number of a single issue you had to purchase if you were a ID Distributor to get that comic? Like say if you wanted 100 copy's of a comic that did not sell well like a reprint comic did you still have to buy 300 to get that book or could you just order any number you wanted if you were a ID Magazine Distributor in the 1970's?

[BLBcomics-migration]

How do you know those particular bagged comics were from Whitman - i do not see Whitman on the scans

 

I don't realy know for sure but the bags have a free prize inside, and in one of those bags is a game that says by Western publishing company on it. I was kind of hoping that you might know if these bags were from Whitman or not, Did you ever get any of them in your Whitman orders from 1977-79?

 

 

would not say the Marvels you pictured were printed especially for Whitman, they simply bagged up a portion of the print runs - DC's deal would obviously been different

 

 

I have just been trying to nail down where these comics came from they are printed different from the normal print run they have the price and issue number in a large diamond and allot of them do not have UPC codes so I figured (no UPC code) they were not ment for the ID Magazine Distributors. So if their not for the Direct Market and they are not for the Newstands are they printed like this for Whitman? I guess that will be a tough one to figure out.

 

 

I was wondering something else you talked about buying cases of 300 Conan's comics from that East cost Warehouse. Did Comics normanly get shipped from the Sparta plant in cases of 300 comics? Was their a minum number of a single issue you had to purchase if you were a ID Distributor to get that comic? Like say if you wanted 100 copy's of a comic that did not sell well like a reprint comic did you still have to buy 300 to get that book or could you just order any number you wanted if you were a ID Magazine Distributor in the 1970's?

 

Blow up a scan of the free prize - let me see it. We are trying to jog a memory 30 years old, not part of my main mental rolodex, as it were

 

I do not remember all specifics on much of my Whitman ordering which began direct in 1977. I did go direct with them to get at the Disney comics for my stores and other dealers who wished to build up their clientele forward-thinking on a long term basis. Groom em young, get em reading comics, wean em over to other stuff as they got older, those types of thought patterns

 

So, you say some of these baggie comics you showed have UPC codes and some to not?

 

Post a scan of the prize which sez Whitman - blow it up to be easily read here, that will help

 

Sounds like there were some extras which were placed into this bag system Whitman was running and experiments were tried. All kinds of experimentation was tried trying to get product to market back in the day - i should dig out my pics of Comicmobiles, vans with comic books and other rmags which would drive around and set up on corners to hawk their wars, mainly in the NYC area as yet another experiment. I know this was tried in 1961 as well as the mid 70s

 

The comic bag experiments were efforts to get into chain discount stores as well as grocery stores as efforts to get outside the ID system - and the DM was less than 5% of total comic book sales in 1979 - just another dot in sales for the publishers at the time

[cosmic-spider-man]

hear is a close up of the bag with the Whitman game inside the bags are still sealed so this is the best I can do Also these 3 comics in this bag are from Oct. 1977 and none of them a UPC code

 

[BLBcomics-migration]

OK, so what you have there is a Whitman distributed 3 pack - with some Marvels in there, which you obviously already know this

 

Did Whitman "publish" these books?

 

nope

 

Whitman merely distributed them into their system, and it doesn't sound like it was very successful, otherwise there would be lot more varied issues kicking around