"Limited Distribution in Some Areas" - Conan #3 / SS#4

[chrisco37]

I've been trying to figure out for a few days how to word this post, and I haven't been able to (I apologize in advance). Anyway....

 

I'm writing this post as some of Bob Beerbohm's posts about the market in the 70's got me thinking about one of Chuck's columns from a few years ago....

 

Chuck wrote a column called Fooling Bob Overstreet, and Other Fun Games.

 

The section of Chuck's article that I find the most interesting is the part about Conan #3. Chuck writes:

 

Just so you don't think I am entirely innocent in this process, I want to tell you a short story about CONAN #3. For the past 25 years, that issue has been listed in the OFFICIAL OVERSTREET COMIC BOOK PRICE GUIDE as having low print runs in some areas. Ummm, I don't think that really true. Back in the early 1970's, CONAN was our best-selling title. A peculiarity about those early days, however, was that the CONAN paperback books were all still in print, and fans really cared about which issue adapted which particular R.E.H. story. Issue #3 contains the adaptation of Grim Gray God, which was especially popular. As result, we were constantly sold out of issue #3, while issue #1 tended to stick around longer because of the higher price. To rectify this problem, all the Denver area dealers started marking #3 as "scarce," and pricing it above #1. To our amazement, this "fact" ended up in Bob Overstreet's price guide soon thereafter. To this day, I can't help but smile whenever I see that notation in the guide.

 

So, for those of you that were buying/collecting/dealing back then, what is your take on books like Conan #3 or Silver Surfer #4 that have been tagged with the "Limited Distribution" notation in the guide? For real or "urban myth"?

 

What were some of the factors that caused a book to be LD? I can't imagine that it's low sales, at least on a book like SS. It was only the 4th issue and I would have to think it was a pretty popular title (at least initially). Same with Conan #3. Bob said in the other thread he loaded up on Conan #1's and had to limit the # people bought at shows so that everyone would get a fair shake. It was obviously a hit right out of the gate.

[BLBcomics-migration]

Chuck's explanation works for him, but is off base

 

the reason Conan 3 and Silver Surfer 4 are listed as scarce in the Guide were the Mafia affidavit return fraud guys on the east coast did not get any copies to stick away.

 

Factor in also the concept that #3 and #4 issues tend to be scarcer on many many titles

 

I'll come back to this when i have more time a little later

[october]

Mafia affidavit return fraud guys on the east coast

 

I have heard some good stories along those lines. I can't believe they used to have returns on the affidavit system. That just screams "corrupt my system, please"!

[joe_collector]

I have heard some good stories along those lines. I can't believe they used to have returns on the affidavit system. That just screams "corrupt my system, please"!

 

Sure, but did you read Chuck's account of what happened when a Marvel executive tried to "clean up the system"?

 

He apparently got a visit from some Mafia leg-breakers.

[BLBcomics-migration]

Back in 1932 a lot of magazine distributors started up their new legit business of periodical distribution - they had all these trucks left over from the boot legging business.

 

It was the distributors who dictated they were no longer going to strip the covers off to count returns - back when the DM first started up, we had to be very quiet about it in some circles for that very concerned reason

[fastballspecial]

I always thought that issues 3 and 4 of a book until say the mid 80s were always lower printed due to the fact that they did not have sales figures until issue 4 came out. I heard that growing up alot in the late 80s and early 90s as a college student. I am unsure if it was true enough, but I heard it quite a bit I am unsure though if it applied to older 60s-70s books as well.

[BLBcomics-migration]

I do not know when exactly what you wrote holds true, but, yes, the 3 and 4 issues of most any given book were printed lower than a #1 for a long time. I would say that even when the DM took over control of most of the comics distribution, comic book store owners and speculators, the latter being the real engine which ran the comic book buying scenarios up until the aftermath of the "death" of Superman, the first couple issues always had higher sales, hence, more copies in storage in collections as well as warehouses,

 

Except of issues were "fan favorite" spec creators

[Aman619]

in another piece, I believe Chuck claimed to have bought all the copies of #3 he could find before they were released to the newsstands. He laughed at the Overstreet notation becaus eHE was personally responsible for the shortage.

[divad]

As a teenage buyer in the era, I can attest to not being able to get a copy of the title until #5. It was hot out of the gate, but obviously hoarded by the "big boys" at the time. There wasn't a "comics shop" within 20 miles of me, and it was just before I started working at the drug store where I got first dibs from the banded stacks. So I was searching every drug store, grocery store (Mott's and Armata's) and 7-11 around for copies to no avail. Point in fact, it was easier to buy Zap Comix #1 than Conan #1 because of the number of "head shops"

[BLBcomics-migration]

in another piece, I believe Chuck claimed to have bought all the copies of #3 he could find before they were released to the newsstands. He laughed at the Overstreet notation becaus HE was personally responsible for the shortage.

 

Thanks for posting this - if true, one of the silliest things Chuck has ever uttered. Conan #3 is scarce ONLY because there were no copies in that Mafia Affidavit Returns Fraud Holdings which he bought the remnants of in the mid 1980s and dubbed the 2.2 million comic books Mile Two Two replete with Cert of Authenticity

 

Chuck also claims to have invented the Direct Market with Jim Shooter

 

Chuck did send out a letter and helped a lot out in coordinating an August 1979 comic dealer summit during the San Diego comicon which Jim Shooter, James Galton (I think) and a a market researcher named Stan Neville informed all of us present that Marvel was finally going to jump both feet into what was then recently being called the Direct Sales Market

 

The DM was "invented" by Print Mint,Berkeley, Calif HQ'd when they took ZAP COMICS national in April 1968 and augmented with Code comics when Phil Seuling talked DC and Marvel into coming into this system i got into circa 1970

[BLBcomics-migration]

As a teenage buyer in the era, I can attest to not being able to get a copy of the title until #5. It was hot out of the gate, but obviously hoarded by the "big boys" at the time. There wasn't a "comics shop" within 20 miles of me, and it was just before I started working at the drug store where I got first dibs from the banded stacks. So I was searching every drug store, grocery store (Mott's and Armata's) and 7-11 around for copies to no avail. Point in fact, it was easier to buy Zap Comix #1 than Conan #1 because of the number of "head shops"

 

In some cities one or two people got into a ID magazine distributor and scarfed all the copies in any given area - this was not true in all areas - and 7/11 ala Southern Corp generally had its own distribution system, not part of the regular ID system, though mileage may vary on this stat.

 

One also had individuals going around to every outlet scarfing up copies

 

Which is the major reason the Direct Market got into DC and Marvels by late 1973, to feed comic book speculators. Problem with dealing with Phil Seuling was one had to pre pay two months in advance of shipping out of Sparta Illinois's World Color Press, just outside of St Louis

 

If a book did not get printed, it took forever, usually never, actually, to obtain a credit on the pre-payment one made - and if the refund did get made, it took months

[cosmic-spider-man]

Thanks for posting this - if true, one of the silliest things Chuck has ever uttered. Conan #3 is scarce ONLY because there were no copies in that Mafia Affidavit Returns Fraud Holdings which he bought the remnants of in the mid 1980s and dubbed the 2.2 million comic books Mile Two Two replete with Cert of Authenticity

 

Hi blbcomics sounds like you have some great comics knowledge I would be very interested in hearing more about this . Are you saying that these 2.2 million comics were unsold copies that were supposed to be destroyed and the Distributor got credit for more comics even though they were just storing them up in a warehouse to be sold as back issues at a later time . Was this a common practice to warehouse unsold comics back in the 60's & 70's? I thought that the Distributors had to tear off the covers or at least the top 1/3 and send them back in to get credit for unsold copies? I have 3 copies of ASM #8 with the front cover ripped off which I always assumed were unsold copies I always wondered who or where did they send those covers too?

[cosmic-spider-man]

Please grade my ASM #8 just kidding hear is a scan of those 3 with the covers ripped off got them all from a flee market vender back in the 80's.

[BLBcomics-migration]

Thanks for posting this - if true, one of the silliest things Chuck has ever uttered. Conan #3 is scarce ONLY because there were no copies in that Mafia Affidavit Returns Fraud Holdings which he bought the remnants of in the mid 1980s and dubbed the 2.2 million comic books Mile Two Two replete with Cert of Authenticity

 

Hi blbcomics sounds like you have some great comics knowledge I would be very interested in hearing more about this . Are you saying that these 2.2 million comics were unsold copies that were supposed to be destroyed and the Distributor got credit for more comics even though they were just storing them up in a warehouse to be sold as back issues at a later time . Was this a common practice to warehouse unsold comics back in the 60's & 70's? I thought that the Distributors had to tear off the covers or at least the top 1/3 and send them back in to get credit for unsold copies? I have 3 copies of ASM #8 with the front cover ripped off which I always assumed were unsold copies I always wondered who or where did they send those covers too?

 

Go back thru this thread to discover answers to your query

 

I will recap a bit:

 

Yes, to answer the question re ID consignment comic books were supposed to be destroyed

 

The distributor was supposed to destroy the books, but in some cases did not, and lies were told to the publisher, by exactly whom, we will never know for sure

 

Nope, not common practice to say they were destroyed, and then storing unsold books

 

The practice of tearing off covers for credit to be counted was done away with in the main by the late 1950s - it became an "honor" system

 

and i go into a lot more depth earlier in this thread

 

be happy to answer "new" questions after you read the thread

 

Your Spider 8 issues might be returned copies - most likely are, and the coves could have been stripped when sold to a junk dealer. When did you get those Spider 8 issues?

[underthebigw]

in another piece, I believe Chuck claimed to have bought all the copies of #3 he could find before they were released to the newsstands. He laughed at the Overstreet notation becaus HE was personally responsible for the shortage.

 

Thanks for posting this - if true, one of the silliest things Chuck has ever uttered. Conan #3 is scarce ONLY because there were no copies in that Mafia Affidavit Returns Fraud Holdings which he bought the remnants of in the mid 1980s and dubbed the 2.2 million comic books Mile Two Two replete with Cert of Authenticity

 

 

I certainly don't buy Chuck's story regarding #3, but my recollection was that it was broken out in Overstreet as scarce well before the MH2 hoard was bought. I don't have my old Overstreets handy, but wasn't this done as early as 1977?

[cosmic-spider-man]

Sorry about the repeat Questions I just now read over that GL 76 thread and see you covered my questions very well their. and by the way great stories best thread in a long time it is a real treat to hear from someone like you .

 

Those 3 ASM #8's I have I bought all them from a flee marked dealer back in the mid 80's.

 

I have lots of Questions first back in about 1974 I was buying my first comic books at a local 5 & Dime store called Lays and they were all coverless and sealed in three packs from mixed publishers for like 49Cents, well later on I assumed that these comics must have been returns that got bagged and resold do you know if this was the case?

 

Also wondering when you had the stores in San Fran what was your main sorce of new comics did you get them from the local ID magazine distributor and if so do you know how big of a area they handled? Do you remember How many copy's of Star Wars #1 you ordered? Did you get any large back orders of this book since it was very hot at the time from that east cost warehouse maybe?

 

I am very interested in the ID Magazine distributors of the late 70's and how they orperated. Did ID's have to pick up their orders at Sparta Illinois's World Color Press or were they shipped to them by another service? How many ID's were their in the 70's maybe 500 in the U.S. more or alot less?

 

Did you ever order comics from Seagate in the late 70's and did they have the price in those large fat diamonds or were they just the normal news stand copy's? Sorry I know that is alot to answer so I will stop their thanks in advance

[Anfield Fox]

Mafia? Is that why Frank Costello carrying around a Wolverine comic? Did you ever meet him?

[BLBcomics-migration]

Sorry about the repeat Questions I just now read over that GL 76 thread and see you covered my questions very well their. and by the way great stories best thread in a long time it is a real treat to hear from someone like you .

 

Those 3 ASM #8's I have I bought all them from a flee marked dealer back in the mid 80's.

 

1) I have lots of Questions first back in about 1974 I was buying my first comic books at a local 5 & Dime store called Lays and they were all coverless and sealed in three packs from mixed publishers for like 49Cents, well later on I assumed that these comics must have been returns that got bagged and resold do you know if this was the case?

 

2) Also wondering when you had the stores in San Fran what was your main sorce of new comics did you get them from the local ID magazine distributor and if so do you know how big of a area they handled? Do you remember How many copy's of Star Wars #1 you ordered? Did you get any large back orders of this book since it was very hot at the time from that east cost warehouse maybe?

 

3) I am very interested in the ID Magazine distributors of the late 70's and how they orperated. Did ID's have to pick up their orders at Sparta Illinois's World Color Press or were they shipped to them by another service? How many ID's were their in the 70's maybe 500 in the U.S. more or alot less?

 

Did you ever order comics from Seagate in the late 70's and did they have the price in those large fat diamonds or were they just the normal news stand copy's? Sorry I know that is alot to answer so I will stop their thanks in advance

 

1) yes, the coverless books you, me, others were buying back in the day that way were returns which should have been destroyed, pulped, but were not. This recycling reselling practive began in he 1940s and for a while there in the 1950s, publishers placed disclaimers about not buying the comic books coverless like that, saying laws were being broken

 

2) We got new ones from Gilboy in Oakland, Golden Gate in San Fran, Milligans in San Jose. Each had as their territory pretty much the confines i lay out here - my understanding is Gilboy and Golden Gate merged some time back

 

I had pretty much stopped getting back east mafia books (as i always called them) cuz as the DM took hold, i pretty much ordered the large quantities i needed from the various DM distributors, being a 'drop point" for 3 of them at the same time in my prime in this business - back when there were 19 distributors opened for Marvel comics

 

I do not remember my initial Star Wars numbers - the first 3 were under ordered by most dealers and the rush was handled by #4 - and these first issues were reprinted several times to handle demand

 

3) What? Go pick up? ID distributors got their stuff in by train box car when the loads were large enough, or by Yellow Freight for many

 

My understanding in the early 1970s there were some 900 ID periodical distributors - dunno how many there were in the late 1970s

[cosmic-spider-man]

We got new ones from Gilboy in Oakland, Golden Gate in San Fran, Milligans in San Jose. Each had as their territory pretty much the confines i lay out here - my understanding is Gilboy and Golden Gate merged some time back

 

Great Stuff were these the ID Magazine Distributors of the time or DM Distributors? and if they were the DM Distributors did they supply you with the Normal newstand copy's or the DM copy's mainly interested in the late 70's? Any ideal what year Gilboy & Golden Gate merged? What were some of the last books you got from the east mafia books?

 

On the Star Wars books you mean that #4 had a larger print run than #1 at least for the first printings.

 

Sorry for the lame question about Distributors picking up their books but I assumed that all the ID Magazine Distributors probably had their own fleet of Trucks so I was just guessing . Would have loved to see a box car full of comics being unloaded.

 

You say their were 900 ID's back in the eairly 70's wondering how you know this was their a list somewhere, it sure would be cool to have a list with the territory that they handeled . How many ID's did you know? and How many DM Distributors were their in the eairly and then late 70's I am guessing not many?

[divad]

As a teenage buyer in the era, I can attest to not being able to get a copy of the title until #5. It was hot out of the gate, but obviously hoarded by the "big boys" at the time. There wasn't a "comics shop" within 20 miles of me, and it was just before I started working at the drug store where I got first dibs from the banded stacks. So I was searching every drug store, grocery store (Mott's and Armata's) and 7-11 around for copies to no avail. Point in fact, it was easier to buy Zap Comix #1 than Conan #1 because of the number of "head shops"

 

In some cities one or two people got into a ID magazine distributor and scarfed all the copies in any given area - this was not true in all areas - and 7/11 ala Southern Corp generally had its own distribution system, not part of the regular ID system, though mileage may vary on this stat.

 

One also had individuals going around to every outlet scarfing up copies

 

Which is the major reason the Direct Market got into DC and Marvels by late 1973, to feed comic book speculators. Problem with dealing with Phil Seuling was one had to pre pay two months in advance of shipping out of Sparta Illinois's World Color Press, just outside of St Louis

 

If a book did not get printed, it took forever, usually never, actually, to obtain a credit on the pre-payment one made - and if the refund did get made, it took months

 

Bob, Thanks for your insights . . . and the history - D