FFB Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I whole heartedly agree with everything you've said. I'm sure I've asked this before, but does CGC consider watercleaning to be restoration? If they don't then why not? Yes they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Hey Bronty-I just looked at the Heritage scans on the Chicago Subby 3. Concerning the subject of cleaning-how on earth are you going to find evidence of cleaning when the 9.0 scan is set at significantly brighter settings than its 9.6 scan? The 9.6 shows so much more tiny little grain sized dots and aberrations than the 9.0 does. Two different settings- see my earlier post concerning the CAP 12. There's no evidence of cleaning-case closed. Concerning the subject of pressing-I've seen something here.The bottom right corner on the front cover of the 9.6 is sharper than its 9.0 counterpart. But that is not pressing. That corner was straightened by a quick and simple non-invasive procedure. As you know, the procedure known as "pressing" requires tremendous pressure on the entire cover. This is a very common misconception. "Pressing," as that term is used by conservators, involves relatively mild pressure, usually in combination with humidity and heat. Tremendous pressure would split the spines of most golden age and silver age books and would burst the staples on just about any book. If you want to see what I mean, take just about any book you want and stick it into an old-fashioned vise-style book press and keep cranking as hard as you can until you can't crank anymore. Then take the book out of the press and you'll see what happens to comic book staples and centerfolds when a book is subjected to "tremendous pressure." Pressing also involves the use of a tacking iron to flatten a corner, or the use of any number of other devices to flatten bent paper. This is sometimes referred to as "localized pressing." Just because a book isn't being pressed in a dry mount press doesn't mean that it isn't being pressed, though. Pressure and flattening are pressure and flattening. Whether "dry mount pressing" or "tacking iron pressing" meet anyone's particular definition of "restoration" or not is a separate issue -- they're both still forms of pressing, regardless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterChief Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Several Forum members have offered to hold the $$ for the bet. Please send me a PM letting me know who you are most comfortable with, how you want to arrange payment methods etc. It’s a little early in the morning for me, so I would appreciate if someone could clarify the wager here. Is it: The Chicago copy of Sub-Mariner #3 has been cleaned & pressed. Or There is no evidence of books from the Chicago Pedigree as having undergone any form of treatment procedures to improve their original grade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ciorac Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Several Forum members have offered to hold the $$ for the bet. Please send me a PM letting me know who you are most comfortable with, how you want to arrange payment methods etc. It’s a little early in the morning for me, so I would appreciate if someone could clarify the wager here. Is it: The Chicago copy of Sub-Mariner #3 has been cleaned & pressed. Or There is no evidence of books from the Chicago Pedigree as having undergone any form of treatment procedures to improve their original grade. I believe it is more your second option Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stagedoorjohnny Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Hi Johhny. nice post. Are you sure the book in question is a Chicago, and not an Olshefsky copy? Anyway, I'm sure the books you are referring to are beautiful. What I particularly like about your post is your true love for Chicagos. Once you see them, you don't go back. Take care. Oh it's the Chicago copy. At least that's what it says on its purple CGC label. Next to Edgar Church's, Chicago Timelys are my most coveted pedigree. Just a side here, I believe the Chicago collection contained Batman 1-27, but I have never seen any Chicago Bats in the marketplace. Am I incorrect about the Batmans? Anyone know who owns these beauties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hand ® Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I was all gung ho on this last night, but now I'm feeling kind of bad. I'm wondering if we could find an honorable way out of this bet for the new guy. Sometimes the momentum on these boards can move a bit fast. I'm in total agreement with filter and I'm hoping we can get this back to the discussion level. If I'm out of bounds here I'll shut up. Any thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterChief Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I was all gung ho on this last night, but now I'm feeling kind of bad. I'm wondering if we could find an honorable way out of this bet for the new guy. Sometimes the momentum on these boards can move a bit fast. I'm in total agreement with filter and I'm hoping we can get this back to the discussion level. If I'm out of bounds here I'll shut up. Any thoughts? Vince, just read your bio. What a hoot! BTW...would the phrase ‘sucker bet’ be appropriate in this situation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hand ® Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Oh it certainly would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sacentaur Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 I've heard the same thing (cleaned & pressed) about some Recil Macon copies. For those not familiar with Chicago's, here's the Marvel Mystery 29 for a point of reference. I know it has not been cleaned because of the full cover gloss and oxidized interior covers. Pressed? I seriously doubt it, but one never knows... STEVE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Yeah, but yours isn't "in the marketplace" now is it? Long time collection books like that no one is saying have been tampered. I made the comment because the subby 3 was sold through heritage (see ad nauseum threads) and thus out of a long term collection and possibly into 'manipulative' hands. Beautiful book, btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MasterChief Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Very nice, Steve. If you’re looking to get the page fanning fixed, I know someone who can make that right for you. BTW...anyone wanna wager that some Chicago’s have lost their pedigree designation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
batman_fan Posted December 2, 2006 Share Posted December 2, 2006 Very nice, Steve. If you’re looking to get the page fanning fixed, I know someone who can make that right for you. BTW...anyone wanna wager that some Chicago’s have lost their pedigree designation? I am sure that it was just an honest mistake Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filter81 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 There were actually two different bets that were suggested. One was whether or not the Subby 3 had undergone any sort of pressing and/or cleaning process. (With the burden of proof being on me) The other was that I could find 3 other Chicago pedigree books that had been cleaned and/or pressed. If Steelhelmet wants to back out thats fine, I won't say anything rude. I just thought that instead of banging my head into the same brick wall over and over again, it would be interesting to see whether or not someone would stand behind their comments when it counted. If steelhelmet would like to continue with the bet that is A-ok with me, but if he doesn't want to I won't make an issue of it. As far as what type of cleaning I was talking about, I was talking about dry cleaning techniques only. (Something acceptable under current CGC guidelines.) I wasn't talking about any type of solvent cleaning or anything like that, which I agree with FFB, would've been caught by CGC immediately. I wasn't trying to imply that anything nefarious is going on. Just things that are common knowledge and currently accepted as being ok. And by the way Steve, NICE Marvel Mystery! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showcase4 Posted December 3, 2006 Author Share Posted December 3, 2006 lower demand beauty vs. high demand beast. Both sold a few years ago for approx. $5,700. Which one would you choose? ....................or as much as I LOVE high grade, gorgeuos books, I think any opportunity to own a super scarce, high demand comic like Tec 3 must be taken advantage of, and I choose the beast! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filter81 Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 Adventure 39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FFB Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I would take the Adventure 39. Detective #3 is a great book, but when we're talking about rare, non-key books, I'd rather have a nice looking restored copy (for less money) than a low grade unrestored copy that does not present well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronty Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 adv 39 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showcase4 Posted December 3, 2006 Author Share Posted December 3, 2006 uh oh.....my trusted comrads are turning against me on this one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Black Hand ® Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 (edited) Were I selling that Detective 3, I wouldn't have the nerve to call it a 4.5. 3.0 at best. IMO. I'd take the 39. Edited December 3, 2006 by The_Black_Hand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
showcase4 Posted December 3, 2006 Author Share Posted December 3, 2006 fine...I'll never drink vodka and chose again! (It apparently impairs my reasoning abilities---that Tec 3 looks a 7.5 right about now) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
