Action #1 8.5 sr

[action1kid]

My opologies zilltoy. Now I know.

[Crowzilla]

Sure why not? a tiny piece of glue? Big Deal. I could x-acto it off and if it loses a whole point I have a 6.5 Action #1 unrestored that I've now bought for 56K less than a 6.0 sold for this year and 6K less than a 4.0 sold for.

[action1kid]

But if you scratch it off its still restored because its in a cgc holder and everyone is going to know that its been de-restored.

Yeah im one of those guys along with D.A that considers the removal of restoration, Restoration.

[ciorac]

But if you scratch it off its still restored because its in a cgc holder and everyone is going to know that its been de-restored.

Yeah im one of those guys along with D.A that considers the removal of restoration, Restoration.

 

Which D.A. might that be?

[FFB]

But if you scratch it off its still restored because its in a cgc holder and everyone is going to know that its been de-restored.

Yeah im one of those guys along with D.A that considers the removal of restoration, Restoration.

 

That's one way of looking at it, but if you actually cut away the part of the book with the glue or color touch on it (not that I'm advocating this), is the end result any different than a copy of Action Comics #1 that used to have a dot of color touch on a corner and then through years of mishandling, lost all of that color touch by abrasion and no longer has any signs of restoration? The book is all original material and had no other work present on it. Does the fact that a now-missing piece of the book once had a dot of glue or color touch on a part of the book that is no longer there make the book undesirable in its present state, if the present physical condition/grade of the book is otherwise acceptable to you?

 

Take your Action Comics #1, for example. The corners are not perfectly square. Would you like the book any less if someone told you that a child once touched up a now-missing corner point with a dot of blue ballpoint pen ink back in the 1940s, but that the portion of the book that had the ink on it had worn away over the years?

[action1kid]

But if you scratch it off its still restored because its in a cgc holder and everyone is going to know that its been de-restored.

Yeah im one of those guys along with D.A that considers the removal of restoration, Restoration.

 

That's one way of looking at it, but if you actually cut away the part of the book with the glue or color touch on it (not that I'm advocating this), is the end result any different than a copy of Action Comics #1 that used to have a dot of color touch on a corner and then through years of mishandling, lost all of that color touch by abrasion and no longer has any signs of restoration? The book is all original material and had no other work present on it. Does the fact that a now-missing piece of the book once had a dot of glue or color touch on a part of the book that is no longer there make the book undesirable in its present state, if the present physical condition/grade of the book is otherwise acceptable to you?

 

Take your Action Comics #1, for example. The corners are not perfectly square. Would you like the book any less if someone told you that a child once touched up a now-missing corner point with a dot of blue ballpoint pen ink back in the 1940s, but that the portion of the book that had the ink on it had worn away over the years?

 

Only in cases where it was documented would it bother me.I cant document that an unslabbed book was ever de-restored [lets call it]. But it would bother me very much where the De-Restoring was documented such as in the Mile High Superman #1.It will live with the book forever.I mean If the Mile High ADV 40[currently in a PLOD at 9.2 comes back in a blue label unrestored Im not touching it because to me De-Restoring it is Restoration. Its De-Restoration is a documented fact in a new cgc holder.How can I not know that? A raw book your right, I would not know.In this case the cgc holder makes the difference[regarding De-Restoring

[FFB]

But if you scratch it off its still restored because its in a cgc holder and everyone is going to know that its been de-restored.

Yeah im one of those guys along with D.A that considers the removal of restoration, Restoration.

 

That's one way of looking at it, but if you actually cut away the part of the book with the glue or color touch on it (not that I'm advocating this), is the end result any different than a copy of Action Comics #1 that used to have a dot of color touch on a corner and then through years of mishandling, lost all of that color touch by abrasion and no longer has any signs of restoration? The book is all original material and had no other work present on it. Does the fact that a now-missing piece of the book once had a dot of glue or color touch on a part of the book that is no longer there make the book undesirable in its present state, if the present physical condition/grade of the book is otherwise acceptable to you?

 

Take your Action Comics #1, for example. The corners are not perfectly square. Would you like the book any less if someone told you that a child once touched up a now-missing corner point with a dot of blue ballpoint pen ink back in the 1940s, but that the portion of the book that had the ink on it had worn away over the years?

 

Only in cases where it was documented would it bother me.I cant document that an unslabbed book was ever de-restored [lets call it]. But it would bother me very much where the De-Restoring was documented such as in the Mile High Superman #1.It will live with the book forever.I mean If the Mile High ADV 40[currently in a PLOD at 9.2 comes back in a blue label unrestored Im not touching it because to me De-Restoring it is Restoration. Its De-Restoration is a documented fact in a new cgc holder.How can I not know that? A raw book your right, I would not know.In this case the cgc holder makes the difference[regarding De-Restoring

 

If is my understanding that the color touch on the Church copy of the Adventure #40 cannot be removed without significantly affecting the grade of the book because of where the color touch is located.

 

As for my question, I think you missed my point. If you found out tomorrow that one of the rounded corners of your Action #1 used to have a dot of color touch that had either been removed or came off through mishandling, would you like or appreciate the book any less? Would you want to get rid of it?

[action1kid]

Hey Scott...

I would not buy an Action 1 unslabbed. I would insist that it was graded before I bought it.

If it was a documented fact[the dot of color touch] I never would have bought it as that piece of info lives with the notes forever. If it was an unslabbed book and I knew it once had color touch I would not want it because If i knew it everone else does to.The book can carry a Rep with it.

With that said case in point,I do not believe the 8.0 Mile High Superman #1 can attain the price that an equivilent 8.0 non pedigree can[in my opinion] The book carries a Rep of being De-Restored that it cannot shake.It will impact the price negitively in my opinion

[FFB]

Hey Scott...

I would not buy an Action 1 unslabbed. I would insist that it was graded before I bought it.

If it was a documented fact[the dot of color touch] I never would have bought it as that piece of info lives with the notes forever. If it was an unslabbed book and I knew it once had color touch I would not want it because If i knew it everone else does to.The book can carry a Rep with it.

With that said case in point,I do not believe the 8.0 Mile High Superman #1 can attain the price that an equivilent 8.0 non pedigree can[in my opinion] The book carries a Rep of being De-Restored that it cannot shake.It will impact the price negitively in my opinion

 

Peter,

 

Let's try this again.

 

You currently own an Action Comics #1 CGC 6.5. I know this because I have seen your pictures. It is slabbed. You have no idea whether it has ever had a drop of color touch on it. You only know that as of the time it was slabbed, it had no color touch detected.

 

What if you found out tomorrow that this book, which was slabbed when you bought it, used to belong to a collector who saw a tiny dot of color touch on the book when he owned it and scraped it off 10 years ago? Whether it be with a fingernail, by pulling off the paper that had the color touch by hand, scraping it off with a scalpel, whatever. Or what if he says, "Yeah, great book. I used to own that book. It had a tiny pinpoint of color touch on it when I owned it, but it's gone now. I wonder what happened to it." Assume that the book was never CGC graded while it had color touch, so it's not "documented" at CGC -- but the person you're talking to is 100% sure that your book is his old copy and that it had a tiny dot of color touch that is gone now, and "documented" or not, YOU know that the book used to have a dot of color touch.

 

I know this is a hypothetical, but this sort of thing happens every now and then, as we've seen from other threads (I think it happened to Mark Zaid with his Rockford More Fun #52).

 

How would you feel about your copy of Action Comics #1 that you currently own if you found out tomorrow that it once had a dot of color touch that is now gone?

[nearmint]

Peter's never going to look at his Action #1 the same again.

[action1kid]

Peter's never going to look at his Action #1 the same again.

 

Well I would not be as happy as If I knew it was a virgin true untouched book.That is my answer.I would not love the book as much as I do now especially if it is known to the general public that this luggage is being carried with this book.

So as for a direct answer, I would love it less.

[esquirecomics]

I know this is a hypothetical, but this sort of thing happens every now and then, as we've seen from other threads (I think it happened to Mark Zaid with his Rockford More Fun #52).

 

Yep, although I found out about it before I purchased it. I would've been if I found out afterwards, though I have no objection to restoration removal. Just a disclosure issue. In the case of the MF #52, it was a deliberate attempt to launder the book between the two stages that was exposed (I think by Comic-Keys of all people!).

[Aman619]

hey Action, I gota say that this is one thing that FFB has argued for years here that he has convinced me of! He has often described this situation, and the Church Superman#1 in particular, and the thing is that he's right. Once the color touch is gone, sure we all remember that book as "damaged goods" due to the color touch Snyder infected it with, BUT - - hey, its gone now and its been graded as to its current condition. I havent seen it, but Ill assume it was structurally an 8.5 or 9.0 before, an dbeen knocked down due to the now missing piece.

 

so that being the case, would you rather have the 8.0 MH copy that looks like a 9.0 with a missing piece etc and is a Mile High, or the 250K CGC 7.5 under copy that looks like a 7.5 with no pedigree?

 

(and you cant take door #3 which is Dave's other copy that he kept after selling off the MH!!! : )

[Aman619]

...and who's to say that the 7.5 didnt also have a fleck of ct cut off at some point?

 

So what Im saying to you is that I have moved my stance a bit on situations like this (maybe just for top pedigrees with CT or other tiny tiny resto that was done intentionally but foolishly, and probably not merely to deceive a buyer (perhaps)). Because in the final analysis the book has been "pubished" by a lower grade, and deserves a second chane, right? Doesnt everyone (cept Ewert I guess) deserve a second chance to make a first impression?

[action1kid]

1st off im not going to believe him with some sort of concrete proof.If a person tells me hey, I owned that book and It once had color touch on it,well Im not going to believe him.Talk is cheap.Why on earth would I believe talk. If he has a before or after picture then that is another story.

 

Ill take the cgc 7.5 copy.I still think the luggage it carries will effect the price adversly....and that is my opinion ONLY. No rule of the universe here.

[action1kid]

You know I have a picture of the blue label 7.5 Action 1 but it stinks.Anyone have a better picture.

 

http://scoop.diamondgalleries.com/news_images/544_709_2.jpg

[FFB]

1st off im not going to believe him with some sort of concrete proof.If a person tells me hey, I owned that book and It once had color touch on it,well Im not going to believe him.Talk is cheap.Why on earth would I believe talk. If he has a before or after picture then that is another story.

 

Ill take the cgc 7.5 copy.I still think the luggage it carries will effect the price adversly....and that is my opinion ONLY. No rule of the universe here.

 

What if it was someone you trusted 100% telling you that the book had color touch? Someone like the Dentist?

 

 

 

Sorry, Peter, I am being a little cruel here. You answered my prior question just fine.

[action1kid]

Your talking about a huge some of money here.Im going to need more than just someones word.Even the dentist......

[FFB]

Your talking about a huge some of money here.Im going to need more than just someones word.Even the dentist......

 

Fair enough, Peter. My original question was answered and there's no need to keep bugging you about this.

[comicdonna]

Your talking about a huge some of money here.Im going to need more than just someones word.Even the dentist......

 

Fair enough, Peter. My original question was answered and there's no need to keep bugging you about this.

The show is over already. I just got here.