cover color guides

[comix4fun]

I said they go for around $150- and I have been proven correct. Only one went for the $50- you were spouting and what is run of the mill? Moon Knight #1 went for $148 and I think that is run of the mill.

 

Don't talk about markets and prices that you aren't active in.........

 

 

Maybe you should calm down a touch.

 

 

You were the one spouting off that the X-men #94 and Daredevil etc etc etc went for "Thousands and Thousands" and only one piece cracked $1,000 and neither of the pieces you quoted came close.

 

So perhaps you can step down off your high horse of exaggeration and give the shilling a rest.

 

There are 50 auctions over the last 3 years for color separations through heritage, allstar, ebay etc according to comic art fans market data:

 

23 recieved no bids at all

17 more went for $50 or less

10 went for more than $50 (the 10 through heritage that I posted before)

 

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt with my last post, but if you want to throw down with numbers I will be more than happy. 40 of the 50 4 color seps that sold at auction went for $50 or less with only 20% going for more than that as they were truly exceptional pieces. In the 17 that sold there were a healthy group in the $20 or less category.

 

By the way, when you admit you own over 10% of an existing group of items and then proceed to exaggerate their value on a public board it is alot like wearing a sign on your forehead that reads "SHILL".

 

Maybe that doesn't bother you, but I do know that with the opinion you are passing off as fact here I am pretty sure I have forgotten more about comic art than you have ever known.

 

Chris

[Mushroom]

I said they go for around $150- and I have been proven correct. Only one went for the $50- you were spouting and what is run of the mill? Moon Knight #1 went for $148 and I think that is run of the mill.

 

Don't talk about markets and prices that you aren't active in.........

 

 

Maybe you should calm down a touch.

 

 

You were the one spouting off that the X-men #94 and Daredevil etc etc etc went for "Thousands and Thousands" and only one piece cracked $1,000 and neither of the pieces you quoted came close.

 

So perhaps you can step down off your high horse of exaggeration and give the shilling a rest.

 

There are 50 auctions over the last 3 years for color separations through heritage, allstar, ebay etc according to comic art fans market data:

 

23 recieved no bids at all

17 more went for $50 or less

10 went for more than $50 (the 10 through heritage that I posted before)

 

I was trying to give you the benefit of the doubt with my last post, but if you want to throw down with numbers I will be more than happy. 40 of the 50 4 color seps that sold at auction went for $50 or less with only 20% going for more than that as they were truly exceptional pieces. In the 17 that sold there were a healthy group in the $20 or less category.

 

By the way, when you admit you own over 10% of an existing group of items and then proceed to exaggerate their value on a public board it is alot like wearing a sign on your forehead that reads "SHILL".

 

Maybe that doesn't bother you, but I do know that with the opinion you are passing off as fact here I am pretty sure I have forgotten more about comic art than you have ever known.

 

Chris

 

I own almost 10% of the Adler. Most of which are handpainted. I own maybe a handful of colour seps. Those heritage aren't Adlers and they aren't mine. Heritage has been around for a long time and production art has only really started to kick off in the last 12 -18 months. You made an unsupported comment about the value of something that you had no real market knowledge on. A lot of the colour seperations recently on Heritage were to do with the Gold Key files. You need to compare apples with apples. Should I base the average price of line art on the average page cost for a gold key title?

 

It is just plain old ignorance.

 

As for calling me a shill well if you want to stoop to insults then that is your perogative. What am I shilling? The Adler collection is DC and yet the colour sep examples are Marvel. Besides that, I haven't sold one piece of production art in my life. The term private collection means that I own it. I am not a seller.

 

I will state again that 4 colour seps go for around $150-.

[comix4fun]

You made an unsupported comment about the value of something that you had no real market knowledge on. A lot of the colour seperations recently on Heritage were to do with the Gold Key files. You need to compare apples with apples. Should I base the average price of line art on the average page cost for a gold key title?

 

I made a comment based on what has actually sold publically and is supported by actual sales data.

You did not delineate between color seps...you said they go for $150. I showed actual hard market data that showed 80% of all color seps sold publically in the last 24 months were $50 or less...and 90% of those less than $20.

 

If you want to practice some revisionism on your comments now and say "Gold Key don't count" that is not the same as validating your original comment.

 

If you are saying that the very best or more recognizable/desireable pieces demand premium prices then I want to thank you for that revelation.

 

It is just plain old ignorance.

 

As for calling me a shill well if you want to stoop to insults then that is your perogative.

 

Call me ignorant in one breath and then say you won't stoop to insults.....okay.

 

And calling you a shill is a statement on your activities and comments not on who you are as a person. You may be a perfectly nice guy, but your first post and last post in the comic art area were to call people stupid...that is pretty damn insulting.

 

 

What am I shilling? The Adler collection is DC and yet the colour sep examples are Marvel. Besides that, I haven't sold one piece of production art in my life. The term private collection means that I own it. I am not a seller.

 

When you come into a room, call everyone that disagrees with you ignorant, uninformed (or some other variation of stupid) then proceed to VASTLY exaggerate the value of a certain area of artwork (production art as a category color guides, seps and proofs as a single area) that you just happen to own hundreds of examples of, you come off as a shill.

 

And naming a "bunch of pieces" that have sold for "thousands and thousands" when only 1 piece has EVER sold for $1000 and only one other piece has ever even crossed $500 at public sale...your credibility needs more help than calling everyone who disagrees with you ignorant will give it.

 

FYI...A shill doesn't have to sell to attempt to drive a market higher in an attempt to increase the value of his own collection.

 

Oh and if you only knew what the Adler pieces were original sold for, and what the Key Comics guys paid for them not all that long ago you might drop a lung. They do a great job marketing something at very nice prices when almost no one wanted them at 4 for a $1.

 

I have tried to give you room to have your opinion on the hand colored stuff, but you stampeded into the original art section with a high level of pomposity and some questionable claims followed up by shots at everyone's mental capacity when they call you on those claims...exactly what do you expect when this is the first impression that you make?

 

 

Chris

 

 

PS. You might want to check out theartistschoice.com literally hundreds upon hundreds upon hundreds of color guides and seps with almost nothing above $50.

[comix4fun]

Hey is the screen name "Kolor Krazy Kat" taken?

 

Chris

[Mushroom]

I have a few 4 color seps...I have never paid very much for them though. And never seen them sell for more than $50. Which ones have sold for $150. I would not mind knowing to see where the others stack up?

 

 

This is your original comment. Do you have Alzheimer's?

 

Do you actively collect anything other than line art?

 

Do you follow the market on anything other than line art?

 

If you look at traditional 4 colour seps for mainstream titles then they go for $150-.

 

Just because this is the Line Art forum doesn't stop other people stepping in to correct unsupported and non factual statements.

 

It is just this snoberry and pretentiousness that underpins characters like Krazy Kat and yourself.

[comix4fun]

If you look at traditional 4 colour seps for mainstream titles then they go for $150-.

 

 

Nice backpedal....when faced with overwhelming factual evidence of actual public sale to the contrary of your claims it is always more mature to revise your original claim than admit it was faulty.

 

Chris

[Mushroom]

If you look at traditional 4 colour seps for mainstream titles then they go for $150-.

 

 

Nice backpedal....when faced with overwhelming factual evidence of actual public sale to the contrary of your claims it is always more mature to revise your original claim than admit it was faulty.

 

Chris

 

Daredevil 172 203.15 13/05/2006

Giant Size X-Men 1 4481.25 13/05/2006

Marvel premier (Dr Who) 57 49 13/05/2006

Moon Knight 1 262.9 13/05/2006

Red Sonja 12 77.68 13/05/2006

ROM 18 119.5 13/05/2006

Spider Woman 38 107.55 13/05/2006

What if 27 83.65 13/05/2006

X-Men 130 143.4 13/05/2006

X-Men 135 358.5 13/05/2006

X-Men 137 418.25 13/05/2006

X-Men 94 717 13/05/2006

 

You state never more than $50 but the only one that meets your criteria is a Marvel premier starring Dr Who. Did you make the comments or not. The fact that you are even trying to argue your case astounds me.

 

Stick with your prelims........

[jjeanius]

Chris...you're probably better off just cutting your losses at this point. It's pointless to argue with someone who misquotes both you and himself to try to back up his "arguments".

 

When reason and logic have left the room, the conversation is effectively over.

[comix4fun]

Shroom

 

Since you believe yourself to be the authority I thought you should read this.

It was sent to me by someone who ACTUALLY is an authority in the area of color guides, production art and their sale prices.

 

I am sure you will find a way to think he doesn't know what he is talking about either.

 

Mr. Caira - Having seen the recent post from someone named MUSHROOM, I felt it necessary to respond even though I am not a member of that board. Please feel free to post this to the collectors society message board ...

 

To MUSHROOM -

 

I have been an art dealer, artist agent and / or representative for close to 20 years. At the current time ... I represent over 90 artists and have represented ( at different times ) about 10 different major color artists until I sold out their collections or they decided to keep the few pieces they had left.

 

Although, as in any business, there are RARE exceptions, color GUIDES ( not blue line paintings ), and other production art pieces such as color seps are not worth more and do not sell for more than $100.00 for a complete issue or pin up.

 

In my opinion ... anyone that has said otherwise is "guilding the lilly" to take advantage of an uninformed collector.

 

YES, there have been a small selection of color guides and production art that have gone for high prices, but even they go for a fraction of the black and white line art. In the case of the Giant Size X Men # 1 color sep., it did not sell for even 1/20th the price the original black and white line art sold for a couple of years ago. I know this for a fact as I was involved in the sale. It is the most significant issue of the Bronze age, thus the production art associated with it will be head an shoulders above the rest. In general color seps sell closer to 1/50th to 1/100th of what the original art sells for on the open market. SO ... To use your own vernacular ... You should not speak about subjects you know nothing about. A single sale or a handful of sales do not indicate the length and breadth of the market. The sales you mention are the exception and not the rule.

 

Furthermore ... using your own quote ... It is you who is making "an unsupported comment about the value of something that you had no real market knowledge on" ... As you state, you are a collector ... while I have sold somewhere in the neighborhood of about 5,000 or more color guides and production art pieces from many of the top colorists in the industry.

 

I think I am well qualified, and far better qualified than anyone who collects and does not deal or represent the artists, such as you, to judge the value, resale value, and production process than you ... and I am telling you here and now ... although color guides are an important part of the production process and fun to own ... your thought process with respect to the value and resale value of color guides is incorrect and greatly exaggerated.

 

Spencer R. Beck

The Artist's Choice

http://www.theartistschoice.com/

[Nexus]

Oh, *spoon*! You got served! Owned!

 

[comix4fun]

This will be my last word on the topic since using common sense and logic and documented fact are lost on you...

 

Since you are big fan of using exact words, here are yours

 

Go to Heritage and look up what the x-men #94, Daredevil etc etc etc went for less than 12 months ago. Many thousands........

 

here is what the heritage lots you mentioned went for

 

Daredevil 172 203.15 13/05/2006

Giant Size X-Men 1 4481.25 13/05/2006

Marvel premier (Dr Who) 57 49 13/05/2006

Moon Knight 1 262.9 13/05/2006

Red Sonja 12 77.68 13/05/2006

ROM 18 119.5 13/05/2006

Spider Woman 38 107.55 13/05/2006

What if 27 83.65 13/05/2006

X-Men 130 143.4 13/05/2006

X-Men 135 358.5 13/05/2006

X-Men 137 418.25 13/05/2006

X-Men 94 717 13/05/2006

 

So only one piece went over $1000 and only one other even cracked $500. It doesn't look like X-men #94 and Daredevil 172 went for "Many Thousands" now did they? It doesn't look like X-men 94 came close to one thousand and DD missed the mark by a good 5 times its sale price. You still want to use exact words? Do you still want to tell other people they don't know what they are talking about when you seem pretty darn fuzzy on the facts yourself?

 

You can show 10 examples of public sales over $50, I showed 40 more examples from public sales below $50 with almost all below $20 and plenty getting no bids at all with a 9.99 starting bid. It looks like the vast majority of these 4 color seps sell for $50 or less (if they sell at all) with a small percentage crossing over the top. It was nice of you to post the heritage results, but if you had read my post from yesterday you would have seen I did it for you.

 

I was trying to agree with you that the cream or the #1's or the titles people remember well obviously sell for more than $50 but that on the whole most don't hit that number. You were too busy telling everyone here who disagreed with you how ignorant we are instead of stopping and reading.

 

I will wrap this with more of your exact words since they apply to your position on this:

The fact that you are even trying to argue your case astounds me.

 

End

 

Chris

[jjeanius]

pwned!

 

[Mushroom]

This will be my last word on the topic since using common sense and logic and documented fact are lost on you...

 

Since you are big fan of using exact words, here are yours

 

Go to Heritage and look up what the x-men #94, Daredevil etc etc etc went for less than 12 months ago. Many thousands........

 

here is what the heritage lots you mentioned went for

 

Daredevil 172 203.15 13/05/2006

Giant Size X-Men 1 4481.25 13/05/2006

Marvel premier (Dr Who) 57 49 13/05/2006

Moon Knight 1 262.9 13/05/2006

Red Sonja 12 77.68 13/05/2006

ROM 18 119.5 13/05/2006

Spider Woman 38 107.55 13/05/2006

What if 27 83.65 13/05/2006

X-Men 130 143.4 13/05/2006

X-Men 135 358.5 13/05/2006

X-Men 137 418.25 13/05/2006

X-Men 94 717 13/05/2006

 

So only one piece went over $1000 and only one other even cracked $500. It doesn't look like X-men #94 and Daredevil 172 went for "Many Thousands" now did they? It doesn't look like X-men 94 came close to one thousand and DD missed the mark by a good 5 times its sale price. You still want to use exact words? Do you still want to tell other people they don't know what they are talking about when you seem pretty darn fuzzy on the facts yourself?

 

You can show 10 examples of public sales over $50, I showed 40 more examples from public sales below $50 with almost all below $20 and plenty getting no bids at all with a 9.99 starting bid. It looks like the vast majority of these 4 color seps sell for $50 or less (if they sell at all) with a small percentage crossing over the top. It was nice of you to post the heritage results, but if you had read my post from yesterday you would have seen I did it for you.

 

I was trying to agree with you that the cream or the #1's or the titles people remember well obviously sell for more than $50 but that on the whole most don't hit that number. You were too busy telling everyone here who disagreed with you how ignorant we are instead of stopping and reading.

 

I will wrap this with more of your exact words since they apply to your position on this:

The fact that you are even trying to argue your case astounds me.

 

End

 

Chris

 

Where are the 40 you showed.

 

As for the guy who represents artists. Modern color guides do not go for as much as the Adler collection and as he doesn't own that collection he is talking out his arse. I have many colour guides done by Tollin, LeRose etc etc and I only paid $50 or so a piece. Do not take words out of context. I also know what the Adler hand coloured's go for as well.

 

I was also talking about acetates. The ones I showed that sold this year for the main stream titles average more than $150- a piece.

 

OA guys obviously aren't good at maths or economics.

 

As for revisionism....you categoriacally stated that you have never seen one sell for more than $50- and you are wrong wrong wrong. Yet you accuse me of changing my tune. Which I haven't.

 

At least you guys win because this is the most myopic, retarded, and bigoted forum on the CGC boards and anybody with a smidgeon of intelligence is best to stay well away from here............

[justin]

Wow, I wanted an opinion yet start a war.

[Solar]

This should be interesting...

 

Uncanny 108 Color Cover

[*paull*]

That's a really nice example.

[comix4fun]

Here's hoping the bidders aren't novices and think this is the actual line art just colored over, or that Byrne or Cockrum had anything to do with it other than Cockrum providing a photocopy of his art to be colored

 

The seller did a reasonable job of describing it in a way that art collectors will know what they are bidding on though, I will give him that. The novice is who I am worried about. Talking about Cockrum and Byrne but nothing about the colorist might lead to some incorrect presumptions. But Caveat Emptor I guess.

 

That is a very clean piece though with the exception of the top edge, it was kept in good shape. If you have X-men CG's from this era they seem to be the ones that people will actually pay for...pretty cool.

 

C