NICE? EXCELLENT? GREAT? FANTASTIC? sunofabi...

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

Ok, I need to know if I'm just overly sensitive, or if the proliferation of these ambiguous descriptive terms is getting more & more & MORE out of hand.

 

 

 

Why don't they just say they don't know how to grade, or that they're hiding something?

 

And to show that this is not all for naught: I will take the results and include them in my next batch of raw comic listings! Yea!!!

 

Rick

[Joanna]

What words would you like to see for people who don't grade well? Keep in mind that if someone doesn't grade well, and assigns a grade anyway, there will be threads of outrage about that person's poor grading, and there will be negative feedback, complaints, returns, etc. even for a .2 difference (let alone a full grade or more disparity). And keep in mind that it's no longer about grading, it's about grading exactly as CGC would grade -- even though they don't publish their guidelines. It takes looking at tons of CGC'd comics to really get familiar with their system, and not everyone has access to that. Some have never even seen a CGC'd book in person. So what words should that person use?

[Lockjaw]

Since Excellent is actually a degree of condition depending on what type of collectible we are talking about, but is NOT part of comic book grading, I feel that people are being a bit disingenuos when they use that term. It is too vague, and could be their way of describing a very good comic (it might look "excellent" to them, especially if it is an older book). Excellent in a comic description is too loaded a word...could be very good, could be in CGC NM+

 

No need to banish Great, Fantastic or Nice (heck, I sometimes say a comic is Nice in the ebay title, because I want people to look at my auction and not be scared that I only call the book very fine...because once they look they will see a "nice" scan showing that my VF book is maybe not such a distastful item after all). Nice in an auction title is fine, but not as the prime descriptor of the comic. In general, if someone uses great, fantastic, or nice as the only descriptor...it tells me they do not know how to grade comic books, and even though the comic may be in blah shape from the scan they provide, more often than not, they are not trying to be dishonest about their opinion of how the comic book looks to them.

 

Returning to "excellent," heh...I have a feeling that more often than not, people DO know that they are using a term that makes it sound like you are getting grade A merchandise, when in reality they know you are not getting choice meat..oops, I mean merchandise

[HeroDreamer]

on a similiar note...it really disturbs me when people on Ebay refer to books from 10 years ago as "Vintage".

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

What words would you like to see for people who don't grade well? Keep in mind that if someone doesn't grade well, and assigns a grade anyway, there will be threads of outrage about that person's poor grading, and there will be negative feedback, complaints, returns, etc. even for a .2 difference (let alone a full grade or more disparity). And keep in mind that it's no longer about grading, it's about grading exactly as CGC would grade -- even though they don't publish their guidelines. It takes looking at tons of CGC'd comics to really get familiar with their system, and not everyone has access to that. Some have never even seen a CGC'd book in person. So what words should that person use?

 

C'mon Joanna, I'm not asking everyone to be auditioning for a CGC grader, just to use HONEST common sense. If it has a rip, tear or cut, then use rip, tear or cut! Other words like stress 'marks', 'lines', creases, bends, stain, discolorization, fading...these are all universal terms -for every day items, not just collectibles- that do a far better job of description than "nice."

 

Granted, the point system has really magnified defects to an anal degree. But I'm talking adjectives that are not so broad-based. Your average Joe could discern between a fair, fine, and mint book before CGC was around.

 

I'm sure the biggest reason for ambiguity is marketing: emphasize the positives while downplaying the flaws. But by-passing the ol' "truth in advertising" will only get you a dissatisfied customer...and a neg if that customer is ME.

 

Rick

[Joanna]

 

C'mon Joanna, I'm not asking everyone to be auditioning for a CGC grader, just to use HONEST common sense. If it has a rip, tear or cut, then use rip, tear or cut! Other words like stress 'marks', 'lines', creases, bends, stain, discolorization, fading...these are all universal terms -for every day items, not just collectibles- that do a far better job of description than "nice."

 

Okay, I'm unclear on the complaint. Is your objection to "nice" etc. as the only condition note? If so, I understand what you're saying. But if you list all the flaws with honesty yet still want to get across that the overall look and feel of the book is "nice", what would you do?

 

Let's take the example of stockwizard. He absolutely can't grade, we know this. However, he does describe flaws and he includes a large scan. Would you rather he continue to call things NM that are G+ at best, or should he use "nice" which you can choose to believe or ignore much easier than the rather insulting horrendous grading? Personally, I'd rather he used anything BUT a grade, because he has enough information in his auctions to make a decision. The bad grading just leaves him open to complaints, returns and negs despite the fact that his scan alone should've shown the buyer that they were not buying a NM book.

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

1st of all, you, I & everyone else here knows that scans don't show nearly what is necessary (staple biting, page quality, creases that break color but are blended in, not to mention what cropped scans hide). As for the "nice" words, as long as they are backed up with info so we know their definition and can compare to our own, that's fine (fine as in acceptable, not as in better than good but worse than mint ).

 

You said stockwizard can't grade but he does describe flaws , so there you go. That's even better in fact since knowing the pros & cons of a collectible will enable me to come up with my own interpretation of grade!

 

Would you rather he continue to call things NM that are G+ at best

Yes, if he lists the flaws and highlights along with it. Then I can determine myself whether or not to avoid him like the plague.

 

"NM with a grocery list of defects."

That's info I can use.

 

"Excellent condition. Period."

Info?

 

My psyche prof revealed these non-descriptives as being "avoidance" terms; used in order to hide info (deception) or in place of (laziness). I don't want to deal with either type of seller.

 

Rick

[Joanna]

 

"Excellent condition. Period."

Info?

 

 

Okay, so you are referring to the no description auctions. As I said above, under those circumstances, I understand your beef.

 

Personally, I'd rather have a large scan and lots of description and don't bother telling me the grade (unless it's CGC'd) because I don't trust the grading of most of the people on ebay. Because of that, "VF" and "NM" are as meaningless as "nice" and "excellent" to me.

 

Most people's grading is so off, that I've held auctions where the average guy's bad grading actually worked in my favor! I put up a book I thought was around VG. I posted a large scan, front and back, wrote a detailed description, and chose the minimum bid with VG guide in mind. Yet the auction got bid up to over guide for Fine -- and there were several people bidding. I'm assuming they thought it would grade Fine. Because I left off any grade guessing, they were free to draw their own conclusions. I have no idea who was right (VG or F, I'll never know), but had I put VG on the auction, chances are it would never have gotten the bids it did. So is my grading bad or is theirs?

 

I know mine is bad, so I'm not going to do something foolish like grade my books. There are very few experts, so why should every seller be expected to be one? Especially since so many people are convinced they can grade (with lots of evidence to show they can't). And because we are all expected to magically grade with the same accuracy as the professionals at CGC (again, using an unknown set of guidelines and somehow possessing the expertise of professional graders) it makes even less sense for me to assign a grade!

 

One time I tried. I had a book without a flaw that I could find. It looked perfect. No folds, spine ticks, blunted corners, creases, etc. Razor sharp Kirby Jimmy Olsen book. Looked flawless to me, yet to be safe, I called it VF. I sold it and the guy who bought it wrote in my feedback that it was "overgraded".

 

Why should I set myself up to wreck my feedback like that? I should've said "nice" or "sweet" or "a beauty" or whatever other words everyone hates. No one argues with those.

[lighthouse]

I like to be more specific in my descriptions of comics...

• This X-Men 3 is reminiscent of the latter stages of the Byzantine Empire.
  
• This copy of JLA 75 is a grand ballroom with just a hint of feldspar.
  
• This Ultimate Spider-Man 1 has the emotional balance of an aardvark in July.
  
• On Tuesdays, this Hulk 3 sounds like bacon frying in an open window.
  
• When you add this Batman 232 to your collection, your storage boxes will register with the Libertarian Party and wear fedoras after midnight.
  

 

Words like "Nice", "Excellent", "Great", and "Fantastic" just don't convey enough for me... But in the absence of full disclosure, I will settle for Joanna's large scans and tales of the Man-Bait dress...

[Joanna]

I like to be more specific in my descriptions of comics...

• This X-Men 3 is reminiscent of the latter stages of the Byzantine Empire.
  
• This copy of JLA 75 is a grand ballroom with just a hint of feldspar.
  
• This Ultimate Spider-Man 1 has the emotional balance of an aardvark in July.
  
• On Tuesdays, this Hulk 3 sounds like bacon frying in an open window.
  
• When you add this Batman 232 to your collection, your storage boxes will register with the Libertarian Party and wear fedoras after midnight.
  

 

Now there's a man who knows how to write an auction!

 

Words like "Nice", "Excellent", "Great", and "Fantastic" just don't convey enough for me... But in the absence of full disclosure, I will settle for Joanna's large scans and tales of the Man-Bait dress...

 

[lighthouse]

I like to be more specific in my descriptions of comics...

• This X-Men 3 is reminiscent of the latter stages of the Byzantine Empire.
  
• This copy of JLA 75 is a grand ballroom with just a hint of feldspar.
  
• This Ultimate Spider-Man 1 has the emotional balance of an aardvark in July.
  
• On Tuesdays, this Hulk 3 sounds like bacon frying in an open window.
  
• When you add this Batman 232 to your collection, your storage boxes will register with the Libertarian Party and wear fedoras after midnight.
  

 

Now there's a man who knows how to write an auction!

 

Words like "Nice", "Excellent", "Great", and "Fantastic" just don't convey enough for me... But in the absence of full disclosure, I will settle for Joanna's large scans and tales of the Man-Bait dress...

 

 

Mmmmm... Man-Bait dress...

[Joanna]

Did you ever find out if LL 29 is in your stock of LLs?

[lighthouse]

Did you ever find out if LL 29 is in your stock of LLs?

 

It's on my list of things to do... just ahead of buying Easter candy and filing my taxes... Where has the first half of this year gone?

 

It's not out on the floor, but I have about half my LLs in my convention boxes and I haven't had a chance to check those yet. Hopefully I have a copy or two...

[Joanna]

I acutally scanned the entire story so that I could pick and choose the panels I wanted to include (it helps if the comic is beat up, because you don't need to worry about wrecking it in the scanner). If you can't find a copy, I could always send you the scans to read.