Can you out-deal a dealer?

[Mighty Hal]

Slowly, I've discovered that I'm buying more OA from dealers. I'm pleased with what I've purchased...no eBay 'surprises'...and I've had only a good experience with the dealers I've used. No complaints at all. (The dealers: Tom Fleming/Fanfare-se, Anthony Snyder, Hugo Brache/artguy.net and my wife bought my upcoming Christmas present from Mike Burkey, the Romitaman.)

 

The thing is, these guys KNOW the market. While I've gotten some pieces that I love, I realize that I've paid full market value. Again, I'm completely happy with my purchases -- but, still I wonder: Has anybody here ever gotten a real steal of a deal from an OA dealer?

[ComicsAndCode]

Nope. Not yet. Actually, I lost on a purchase. I did an experiment over the summer....

 

I decided to buy a piece of artwork from Comic Con. But at the time of purchase, I intended to keep in my personal collection. I picked up a Byrne Hulk #314 page from Albert Moy (this has been mentioned on the board before) for $925. I visited a few other comic art dealers on the floor discussing the Hulk OA, and almost all of them said if I had bought it from Moy, then I pretty bought it at FMV. So then I thought to test this out by offering to the board and selling on eBay.

 

The best offer I got on the board was a little under $600 and many comments were made that the piece is nice, but not Byrne's best and would not go for more than $500 on eBay.

I listed on eBay and got $675 for it. I lost some money, but a small loss for me.

 

So if you end up buying OA from Albert Moy, you are likely paying 25-30% more than what it is worth at the time. I imagine this to be the case for many OA dealers. Unlike comic books, guidelines on how to assess the value of comic art are limited.

[mister_not_so_nice]

well, a dealer is going to make money off of every page he sells you(if he plans on staying in business). I realize this(and I'm not trying to insult anyones intelligence), so the best you can do is try to get as good a deal as possible that you feel comfortable with. I purchase 18 or so pages from "The Story of You Know Who" in 2005 for $40 per. I think I got a sweet deal since PREACHER art is hot even though it isn't Dillon.

Did I outdeal him? Doubt it, just means he got them off of someone else chaper than that and I wish I knew the sources he had! ! !

 

Mike

[pkveronese]

Nope. Not yet. Actually, I lost on a purchase. I did an experiment over the summer....

 

I decided to buy a piece of artwork from Comic Con. But at the time of purchase, I intended to keep in my personal collection. I picked up a Byrne Hulk #314 page from Albert Moy (this has been mentioned on the board before) for $925. I visited a few other comic art dealers on the floor discussing the Hulk OA, and almost all of them said if I had bought it from Moy, then I pretty bought it at FMV. So then I thought to test this out by offering to the board and selling on eBay.

 

The best offer I got on the board was a little under $600 and many comments were made that the piece is nice, but not Byrne's best and would not go for more than $500 on eBay.

I listed on eBay and got $675 for it. I lost some money, but a small loss for me.

 

So if you end up buying OA from Albert Moy, you are likely paying 25-30% more than what it is worth at the time. I imagine this to be the case for many OA dealers. Unlike comic books, guidelines on how to assess the value of comic art are limited.

 

 

Ebay is often not FMV. The selling period is limited as it is not an online store wherein the piece can stay for sale for months until a buyer decides to buy it - it is a situation wherein the piece will sell (or not meet reserve) within a pre-determined time frame regardless of whether or not it is sold at FMV.

 

 

Also, the ability to buy from a dealer and sell at FMV also depends on the piece and the artist's popularity at the time. I'm sure I could pick out 10-20 pieces online right now (and not high dollar pieces - pieces in the $500 and less range) that could be bought and sold within a couple of weeks (on eBay even) for a 50-100% profit. I would not in any way say that buying from Moy (or any other dealer for that matter) is like paying 25-30% more than FMV just from your one experience.

[glenbru]

Nope. Not yet. Actually, I lost on a purchase. I did an experiment over the summer....

 

I decided to buy a piece of artwork from Comic Con. But at the time of purchase, I intended to keep in my personal collection. I picked up a Byrne Hulk #314 page from Albert Moy (this has been mentioned on the board before) for $925. I visited a few other comic art dealers on the floor discussing the Hulk OA, and almost all of them said if I had bought it from Moy, then I pretty bought it at FMV. So then I thought to test this out by offering to the board and selling on eBay.

 

The best offer I got on the board was a little under $600 and many comments were made that the piece is nice, but not Byrne's best and would not go for more than $500 on eBay.

I listed on eBay and got $675 for it. I lost some money, but a small loss for me.

 

So if you end up buying OA from Albert Moy, you are likely paying 25-30% more than what it is worth at the time. I imagine this to be the case for many OA dealers. Unlike comic books, guidelines on how to assess the value of comic art are limited.

 

This experiment of yours assumes that prices realized on eBay are equal to FMV. I do not believe this to be the case. eBay prices are simply a representation of what the two high bidders were willing to pay on that given day. Even if you include data from the board you are still not getting a full FMV reading.

 

Dealers also add various incentives to make paying MORE more attractive than on eBay like time payments or taking less desired trade. But make no mistake dealers do what they do to make money and sometimes do make more than a fair mark up on certain items.

 

Glen

[batman_fan]

For myself, I don't really care what anyone thinks about a page. If I want it and I can afford it, then I will buy it. Price really doesn't matter as long as I am happy.

[blowout]

For myself, I don't really care what anyone thinks about a page. If I want it and I can afford it, then I will buy it. Price really doesn't matter as long as I am happy.

 

Spoken like a true collector, that's really what it's all about isn't it?

[Solar]

I bought one of the more expensive pieces in my gallery for about 40% of FMV from an art dealer at WW Philly. I'm sure he mad a profit on it though.

[Mighty Hal]

In my original question, I didn't mean to ask if anyone here had kept a dealer from making a profit. I actually expect the dealers to make a profit (or else we wouldn't have any dealers and I wouldn't have been as likely to find the last three or four pieces that I've bought). I just wanted to know if anyone had gotten a terrific bargain from a dealer...or were we all paying FMV? I'm not like batman fan; I won't buy a piece if I think I'm paying FMV + a heavy premium. My dollars are too limited.

 

So, thanks Solar. Which of your pieces is your bargain?

[Solar]

So, thanks Solar. Which of your pieces is your bargain?

 

The Quesada Solar cover, appropriately enough.

[pkveronese]

So, thanks Solar. Which of your pieces is your bargain?

 

The Quesada Solar cover, appropriately enough.

 

 

You were the guy ahead of me!!!

 

That was a great deal.

[micmack]

I think a couple of pieces I got from Spencer Beck 's artists were a good deal. 2 Finch splashes, which within days of posting on CAF, I got offers for twice the amount I paid. Also, one McNiven splash page that I felt was very low priced to begin with, I got numerous offers that went as high as 4 times the price I paid.

[Solar]

So, thanks Solar. Which of your pieces is your bargain?

 

The Quesada Solar cover, appropriately enough.

 

 

You were the guy ahead of me!!!

 

That was a great deal.

 

Really!? Did you end up getting anything at that table? I think I was hogging all the space while the dealer's cellphone/credit card setup took forever to run my card.

[pkveronese]

So, thanks Solar. Which of your pieces is your bargain?

 

The Quesada Solar cover, appropriately enough.

 

 

You were the guy ahead of me!!!

 

That was a great deal.

 

Really!? Did you end up getting anything at that table? I think I was hogging all the space while the dealer's cellphone/credit card setup took forever to run my card.

 

I think I'm talking about another Quesada Solar cover that showed up on Beck's site a couple of months ago - it was really, really nice. Which one did you get?

[Paratrooper]

Yes you can, it's called a five finger discount.

 

folks I am kidding. For those of you that may be missing a finger it's a four finger discount.

[Solar]

So, thanks Solar. Which of your pieces is your bargain?

 

The Quesada Solar cover, appropriately enough.

 

 

You were the guy ahead of me!!!

 

That was a great deal.

 

Really!? Did you end up getting anything at that table? I think I was hogging all the space while the dealer's cellphone/credit card setup took forever to run my card.

 

I think I'm talking about another Quesada Solar cover that showed up on Beck's site a couple of months ago - it was really, really nice. Which one did you get?

 

Number 29. Which one did Spencer have?

[pkveronese]

So, thanks Solar. Which of your pieces is your bargain?

 

The Quesada Solar cover, appropriately enough.

 

 

You were the guy ahead of me!!!

 

That was a great deal.

 

Really!? Did you end up getting anything at that table? I think I was hogging all the space while the dealer's cellphone/credit card setup took forever to run my card.

 

I think I'm talking about another Quesada Solar cover that showed up on Beck's site a couple of months ago - it was really, really nice. Which one did you get?

 

Number 29. Which one did Spencer have?

 

Spencer had the cover to issue 22. It had water damage, but I do not know the extent of the damage. I'm about to send you a PM with the price it was at.

[batman_fan]

In my original question, I didn't mean to ask if anyone here had kept a dealer from making a profit. I actually expect the dealers to make a profit (or else we wouldn't have any dealers and I wouldn't have been as likely to find the last three or four pieces that I've bought). I just wanted to know if anyone had gotten a terrific bargain from a dealer...or were we all paying FMV? I'm not like batman fan; I won't buy a piece if I think I'm paying FMV + a heavy premium. My dollars are too limited.

 

So, thanks Solar. Which of your pieces is your bargain?

 

With original art, price is always very subjective. FMV can vary significantly depending on how tapped out people are. I know when some nice Buscema pages came to market a few years back, I had quite a bit of money built up so I didn't care about price. I bid what I needed to to win them. Right now, I am paying off a big purchase so if something came to market, I would have to watch it go by. That could result in a big change in FMV unless someone else steps up and is willing to pay what I would be had I not been out of spending cash. So far, to date, I have no regrets on any artwork I have purchased. Now comics on the other hand ...

[Mister Trent]

Like any other type of businessman, art-dealers are there to make a profit.

 

If your consideration is to 'out-deal' the dealer, then the likelihood is that you will only do so a number of years down the line (as values escalate in price).

 

In the short term, it's probably unlikely.

 

It's an interesting question. I don't know what drives other collectors, but - me personally - my main focus is on putting-together a collection of art I can derive pleasure from. Monetary considerations hinge on affordability.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Affordability is in the wealth of the wallet.

[action1kid]

Its difficult to challenge a man in his own specialty.