My Sunday chat with Joe Krolik ( Original Owner of Winnipeg Pedigree)

[Joe Krolik-migration]

Woops, meant #32 (that's thirty-two in longhand). I type faster than the machine can register the letters....sorry.

[Ze-man]

Keep in mind, I am very respectful to him and I am not rubbing salt in an open wound.

 

 

To be quite honest with you that is not what I got after reading your post.

 

I felt like I was reading a PM rant, rather then reading something posted in General.

 

You said what you meant to.

 

 

Ze-

[sckao]

 

Years ago (and yeah..it was many years ago) I saw a Moon Knight 32 in your display case with a cover quite worn and it had a hole in it. You were asking for NM guide for it or thereabouts at the time. Not sure what you've been doing grading wise in the last 10 - 15 years but seeing that obviously left a lasting impression with me that I carry to this day.

 

Hi Herb.

 

The first question that comes to mind is why the heck a Moon Knight 32 would EVER be in a display case anyways? I don't recall the incident, but it sounds kinda weird. Maybe it was the rare "gold ink, double-printed, embossed, foil, sandwich dressing variant"?

 

Can you remember anything else about that? Maybe it was sitting on top of another book that had a price tag showing and you saw the tag but didn't realize it applied to the book underneath?

 

I dunno, because as far as I know, Moon Knight #32 would go for something like $2 to $3 at best. Was it Moon Knight, or more correctly BLACK Knight? That would be Maneely and those are kind of scarce even to this day.

 

Whatever, you oughta come by for a coffee sometime.

 

 

I think he meant Moon Knight's First Appearance... Werewolf by Night #32

 

[jbud73]

I really get a kick out of stuff like that "desert island" comment up there somewhere. Makes you feel that all the work you've put into forwarding the hobby both locally and nationally over the years is really appreciated......or I guess not.

 

Well since I made the Desert Island comment let's see if I can respond with the appropriate measure of candor. I think its fairly interesting that in response Mr. Krolik makes a reference to his work in the comics industry over the years. Should this work be appreciated, yes I think it should, however I also think there is a tacit implication in his response of entitlement - that is, because of his endeavours in this area a benefit of the doubt should be exercised in subsequent business transactions.

 

Again I will use Chuck R. for analogous reasons and because more people know him. I think many would agree that Chuck has been an ethusiastic embassador for the hobby, he exudes a genuine fan boy persona in his public discourse. Yet are we as collectors to lump his honest love for the hobby in with the actuality of a majority of his business practices.

 

Both dealers IMO are attuned to doing what dealers do, 'sell as many books as they can for as much as they can' - collectors are on the other hand trying to get the best book they can for the lowest price. These motives WILL ALWAYS be at some level of opposition, that's just the nature of the buyer/seller arrangement.

 

Back to my original assertion. Does a genuine interest and love / respect for the hobby always correlate to being the dealer who offers the most accurate grades and competative prices? Quite frankly no, these are mutually exclusive ideas. I may agree that Mr. Krolik displays a legit appreciation of all things comics, but that does not mean that a majority of his inventory is not overgraded and overpriced in comparison to the market in its totality.

[Lazyboy]

I think he meant Moon Knight's First Appearance... Werewolf by Night #32

 

Yeah, I'm pretty sure about that.

 

Anyway, I don't want to be left out of the Winnipeg thread, so I guess I'll chime in as well.

 

Comics America's business plan is pretty simple and I have to assume it works since Joe still sticks to it. The store contains a huge selection of new issues, as well as many back issue bins, TPBs, Graphic Novels, Anime & Manga, Figures, Gaming Supplies, etc. The back issues are priced to be discounted. The store has a Frequent Fan Plan (a.k.a. FFP!) which is basically like a Subway Sub Card (to use an analogy which most people should understand). There are also multiple sales thoughout the year where all comics are 50% off (which is obviously very generous for new issues), all Books (including TPBs, etc.) are 35% off, etc. (almost everything in the store has a certain percentage discount). So that's that.

 

On the subject of grading, other than some of the older back issues which have grade stickers as well as price stickers, I have no experience with how Joe grades. From what I've seen of the comics with grades on them, they seem at least fairly accurate.

 

On the subject of pricing, how many people here have been to a store that they thought had nothing that was overpriced? That's what I thought. I do agree that it's worse overall than most stores (*cough* mid200sUncannyXMen *cough* excuse me, I was going to ask what's up with that Superman (v.2) 21?) and, like many stores, gets worse for the most part as the comics get older, but that doesn't mean there aren't many reasonably priced comics (some even at sticker price, not factoring in a discount shh... don't tell Joe ). I do miss the 50c bins, though. I guess that's just another part of my youth that I'll never get back.

 

Years back, I had a couple of experiences (and witnessed others) at Comics America that stopped me from returning for a few years. This included a negative experience with Joe himself, which I was quite upset with. I'm not going to go into detail because it was in the past and is better left there as far as I'm concerned. I eventually decided to give him another chance, and have since been quite happy with my overall experience and have even enjoyed talking to Joe briefly a few times when the store hasn't been too busy.

[ninanina]

 

Years ago (and yeah..it was many years ago) I saw a Moon Knight 32 in your display case with a cover quite worn and it had a hole in it. You were asking for NM guide for it or thereabouts at the time. Not sure what you've been doing grading wise in the last 10 - 15 years but seeing that obviously left a lasting impression with me that I carry to this day.

 

Hi Herb.

 

The first question that comes to mind is why the heck a Moon Knight 32 would EVER be in a display case anyways? I don't recall the incident, but it sounds kinda weird. Maybe it was the rare "gold ink, double-printed, embossed, foil, sandwich dressing variant"?

 

Can you remember anything else about that? Maybe it was sitting on top of another book that had a price tag showing and you saw the tag but didn't realize it applied to the book underneath?

 

I dunno, because as far as I know, Moon Knight #32 would go for something like $2 to $3 at best. Was it Moon Knight, or more correctly BLACK Knight? That would be Maneely and those are kind of scarce even to this day.

 

Whatever, you oughta come by for a coffee sometime.

 

 

I think he meant Moon Knight's First Appearance... Werewolf by Night #32

 

 

Yeah, sorry....got my titles mixed up.

[Joe Krolik-migration]

Hi folks. I thought I would check the thread again to see if there have been any more entries since my last few, and of course there have.

 

Right off the bat, if you have a comment to make, for the love of Mike (whoever Mike may be) please identify yourself by name, meaning FULL name.

 

That goes especially for those folks who may have anything negative to say, because otherwise you're just a name, and frankly it's hard to place a face or an incident without a full name and know if the complaint is legitimate or not. It'sd even worse if the person making the comment is located 2000 miles away (as in the case of "Jason" up there).

 

Next, to the subject of the Moon Knight: Well, Werewolf #32 does make sense, doesn't it? But again I inquire: What would a book with a hole in it be doing in a display case? That just doesn't sound like me. I'm wondering if because you got the book mixed up you might also have gotten the circumstances mixed up?

 

Now, no particular offense to anyone intended, but from the comments made on this thread, I think some of the folks here are somewhat lacking in understanding exactly what it costs and the effort it requires to run a store as opposed to dealing at flea markets or from a basement somewhere. I also think there is resentment out there that someone has made a go of it.

 

 

Which begs the question: What do you think it would be like locally if this store did not exist? What do you think it would be like in your local area (if you're reading this from out of town), if your largest, most diverse local store did not exist? Think about it and respond with your best case scenarios.

 

One last comment: Seems that some folks don't care for either me or Chuck Rozanski. We always seem to be associated somehow (at least in this thread anyway). Maybe it's the pedigree thing or whatever.

 

To me, being associated with Chuck is a compliment, because y'know what? If most of the folks who criticize Chuck had one tenth of his intelligence, they'd be a lot better off. He's got more smarts in his little finger than most people have.....period! So stop criticizing and start emulating maybe, huh?

 

Well, that oughta get a rise out of some people, huh?

 

Remember, when replying or villifying please use your full name so we can all know you're right up front.

[tth2]

It'sd even worse if the person making the comment is located 2000 miles away (as in the case of "Jason" up there).

So what if Jason lives 2000 miles away from you when he's making the comment? That's simply where he lives NOW. If he actually lived in Winnipeg and went to your store in the past, seems to me that his right to comment is perfectly legitimate.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Joe... what the hell are you doing up so late posting in the wee hours of the night!!!

 

I just want to say I don't like the way this thread has gone. I will take full blame for unwarranted criticism at Joe ( the store owner ). My intention with this thread was to have Joe come aboard and share his stories with us. I thought it would add a lot of merit to have a fella like Joe be here to inject some views on the hobby and I think it's great that he had the foresight to see there was something special about these books before most of us were born. I admire Joe for making the business work in Winnipeg for 3 or 4 plus decades. I also think there is merit in the statement that people are jealous of other's stations in life and often insults are used as a way to downplay true feelings. I'm humble enough to admit that I would be jealous, not to the point where it bothers me, just wish I was on board years ago. Anyways, Joe I like your store, I think it has the best eye appeal of any shop I've been too. I especially like sharing stories with you because you are a wealth of information and a true comic fan!!! If someone like myself says "over priced/ overgraded" or anyone else, that's just an opinion and who cares. If we look anywhere we'll always see "raw" books overpriced as we all have different views on grades etc. But I know, and agree, that it's not easy to make a go of it for a business in Winnipeg as I do work with many corporations and small businesses and see the diverse mix of issues that face each entity when I'm trying to establish an investment strategy for the owner's hard earned money. I do sincerely apologize that this thread's intentions have been derailed and that I have offended you in the process, my intention was never to make you feel like this was a witch hunt. I hope you post often in other threads and share you insight, now start selling your private collection damn it!!

Oh yeah... it's Paul in case you forgot

[thirdgreenham]

Well, if my local comic shop closed up here and we had nothing, not too much would change. With todays access to books worldwide via the internet, it's easy to get that comic fix that most of us get. What I would miss personally is the feeling of going into a comic store and seeing many books in front of me. It is much more appealing than looking at my computer screen. I would also miss talking to other knowledgable comic collectors face to face. It's always sad to see a comic shop close up, but for collectors, it's not the end of the world.

 

Andy

[Joe Krolik-migration]

It'sd even worse if the person making the comment is located 2000 miles away (as in the case of "Jason" up there).

So what if Jason lives 2000 miles away from you when he's making the comment? That's simply where he lives NOW. If he actually lived in Winnipeg and went to your store in the past, seems to me that his right to comment is perfectly legitimate.

 

That's why I made the comment. If someone moves, that's fine. But it would be nice to know who they were when they were here and what the problem was so as to SOLVE IT or at worst develop a dialogue so that the individual understands what the intent was (see Paul's comment just above here...Dad&Son that is.)

 

Now, having said that, I see you're in Hong Kong. And I see that you have one of those identifiers that doesn't reveal who you actually are. I also note that on several threads there are requests for people to identify themselves. So this is not an unusual problem overall.

 

If you'd like, contact me privately (this goes for anyone else too), and identify yourself so we can have a useful conversation. That shouldn't be a big deal, should it?

 

Thanks.

[codfish]

Joe

 

I have a lot of respect for you but I have been shopping in the Winnipeg market all my life and I have to say that I have purchased maybe ten back issues off of you in the past. All during sales. Why because other than that they were priced way too high for the condition they were in. Nowadays the only back issues I would buy would be current back issues and then ONLY those that are not "hot" enough to warrant that much of a mark up so that if I bought it with your current back issue discount it would actually be less than cover.

 

I am not the only Winnipegger who thinks your back issues prices are crazy high. It is a common enough opinion to be fact. I know that you do sell back issues but to be perfectly honest most people I see in your store are buying new.

 

I think it is very cool how much new stuff you carry. The frequent buyer cards are cool too but it still cost a lot of dosh to get the discounts on the card. That being said I perfectly understand NOT giving an outright discount on new stuff.

 

a.) think they understand grading and market forces but really don't

b.) try to downgrade the objects they desire to use as a negotiation tool

c.) think that by buying and selling "objects of value" (my sometimes unfortunate opinion of slabbed books) rather than enjoying the content of the books firstly, that it makes them an expert on comics and comics history....which they aren't

d.) criticize without offering an alternative view that has any supportable points of merit

e.) think that their remarks aren't read and enjoyed by the people they criticize.

 

with respect to a few of these points:

 

a.) This is a bit derogatory many of us do understand grading and the WINNIPEG market very well. I may not have been collecting as long as you have ever run a successful business but I do know how to grade and I do know that the Winnipeg market is a discount market. That does not mean you have to undercut yourself but I am very sure that many of your prices could be far lower than they are without costing you anything but a larger profit. In fact I think you could probably sell more and get more customers through the doors with some lower prices.

 

I think of one of the 100 page giant DC romance books that I saw in your bins not too long ago it was NOT in and better than a 6-7 grade range and yet it carried a $75 dollar tag on it. Grant it that it probably is the only one in a Winnipeg stores but that was the NM guide price at the time and the book was CLEARLY far from NM. Saying that it was priced for one of your discount sales does not fly either since it was a discount sale the first time I saw it and I had the cash to buy it. I just new that I could get it cheaper almost anywhere else ... and in fact I did end out picking it up elsewhere in Winnipeg later for $16 and in better shape to boot.

 

b.) Very true but not everyone does this. I will only question grades when I see a crazy price sticker. Even then it has more to do with the price than the grade. I have seen so many instance of people placing ridiculous prices on books that I wonder how they sell anything.

 

c.) Well some people are investors and we cannot get around that nor is our place to tell how to collect. Many folks buy slabbed books and crack them open and enjoy the book many buy slabbed books or get slabbed book to have copies of the books well preserved. Many folks who are very strict on grading and try and negotiate price are very knowledgeable. Just because you do not like their practices or personality doesn't change this.

 

d.) Lots of people would worry about how you would take criticism of some of your practices. Many people do not take criticism well nor want really hear what customers have to say regardless of the fact many may have something helpful to say. Many of us listen and respect what you have to say but wonder if you really want to hear what we have to say.

 

Anyway Joe like I say I will never argue with you about your love of the industry and many of your views of it. Indeed, beyond back issue prices I would not even want to question you or offer alternative POV since I am amazed at how you can still do so well despite bringing in so much stuff. Clearly much of your business model works fine for you otherwise you would have folded long ago. I do think you could do way better back issue business with some lower prices but if your sales in this area are satisfying then by all means you are free to stay the course. Just don't expect people to change their opinions and criticism of this aspect.

 

I also know, from talking with you, that you are a nice well intentioned person. You just come off a bit too cocky sometimes and it has lead to much of the negative image of you. There is not really much you can do about that though. Clearly some people are jealous of your success.

 

I really hope I did not offend you with any of this but I need to express this here so you understand how some of us feel and to also understand that despite any ill feelings we have had we do respect you.

[Joe Krolik-migration]

Joe

 

I have a lot of respect for you but I have been shopping in the Winnipeg market all my life and I have to say that I have purchased maybe ten back issues off of you in the past. All during sales. Why because other than that they were priced way too high for the condition they were in.

 

Hi Aaron: That's your opinion and I respect it. But you miss out on a lot of reasonably priced stuff because of what may be a narrow viewpoint.

 

Nowadays the only back issues I would buy would be current back issues and then ONLY those that are not "hot" enough to warrant that much of a mark up so that if I bought it with your current back issue discount it would actually be less than cover.

 

So here you state that you're price driven only, to the exclusion of every other consideration. Also your prerogative, and your choice.

 

I am not the only Winnipegger who thinks your back issues prices are crazy high. It is a common enough opinion to be fact. I know that you do sell back issues but to be perfectly honest most people I see in your store are buying new.

 

First, anyone who shares the same opinion should come forward. You should not set yourself up as the defacto spokeperson for local fandom. Your statement above is a non-issue because I've heard the same criticism of many places. Nice to see that on the once-every few months (I think) that you actually attend the store you take the time to assess what others are doing. You should be in the consulting business maybe.

 

I think it is very cool how much new stuff you carry. The frequent buyer cards are cool too but it still cost a lot of dosh to get the discounts on the card. That being said I perfectly understand NOT giving an outright discount on new stuff.

 

Actually, the card works out cheaper than other ideas. All you need to do is basically buy the equivalent in price of about 6 comics on a visit, give or take, for 5 visits. That's easy to do. Then you can come and buy ANY QUANTITY YOU WANT TO if you want to and take the discount. You'll find that on balance it's a far better deal than those others being offered.

 

a.) think they understand grading and market forces but really don't

b.) try to downgrade the objects they desire to use as a negotiation tool

c.) think that by buying and selling "objects of value" (my sometimes unfortunate opinion of slabbed books) rather than enjoying the content of the books firstly, that it makes them an expert on comics and comics history....which they aren't

d.) criticize without offering an alternative view that has any supportable points of merit

e.) think that their remarks aren't read and enjoyed by the people they criticize.

 

with respect to a few of these points:

 

a.) This is a bit derogatory many of us do understand grading and the WINNIPEG market very well. I may not have been collecting as long as you have ever run a successful business but I do know how to grade and I do know that the Winnipeg market is a discount market. That does not mean you have to undercut yourself but I am very sure that many of your prices could be far lower than they are without costing you anything but a larger profit. In fact I think you could probably sell more and get more customers through the doors with some lower prices.

 

Well, you may know how to grade, but you may not know about the economics of stores. There are what might be termed intangible costs attached to every item. That's why we introduced the back issue deal. I am just as sensitive to the economics of back issues as anyone else. It's one hell of a great offer and people have appreciated it. The results have been nothing short of excellent for both the buyer and the seller. Everyone should take advantage of it.

 

I think of one of the 100 page giant DC romance books that I saw in your bins not too long ago it was NOT in and better than a 6-7 grade range and yet it carried a $75 dollar tag on it. Grant it that it probably is the only one in a Winnipeg stores but that was the NM guide price at the time and the book was CLEARLY far from NM. Saying that it was priced for one of your discount sales does not fly either since it was a discount sale the first time I saw it and I had the cash to buy it.

 

You're not accounting for a couple of things on this one: First, it was probably (and I'll use that word here because again it's a single item which I can't pinpoint exactly), priced a few years ago for guide with Canadian dollar exchange added. If it was a number of years ago, that exchange could have been as much as 40% or more. Remember that you have to separate guide pricing from Canadian pricing because guides are quoted in US$. If it was on sale, it would have been half the tag price, so that changes that argument there. Lastly, we constantly try to go through and keep the bins updated as things in the marketchage, but with close to 100,000 bin back issues, it's a truth that there isn't enough time to hit everything, so there'll always be something out of whack and sure enough someone will find it and latch onto it to bolster this kind of argument. Have an issue with a price? Bring it up to me, state the issue you have with it and let's see if there's merit. I'm willing to listen and negotiate. See comments further on.....

 

I just new that I could get it cheaper almost anywhere else ...

 

Really? And you knew that someone else immediately had one? I guess they aren't as hard to find as they are made out to be, which may very well be the case. You yourself stated right up there that it "probably is the only one in a Winnipeg stores [sic]" so that kinda knocks that argument out a wee bit.

 

and in fact I did end out picking it up elsewhere in Winnipeg later

 

What's your definition of "later"? A day? week? month?

 

for $16 and in better shape to boot.

 

So? Good for you. I'm glad you were able to get one, and I don't begrudge you. There will always be something available somewhere which undercuts someone on someprice, which can be used to say that so-and-so overprices. Just as an aside, (and an unabashed ad....might as well get a plug in here.....we happen to have, at the time of this writing a very nice selection of "very nice" Romance 100-pagers......just in case anyone is out there looking......and for that matter tons of other scarce DC and Charlton romance books available. End of plug.

 

b.) Very true but not everyone does this. I will only question grades when I see a crazy price sticker. Even then it has more to do with the price than the grade. I have seen so many instance of people placing ridiculous prices on books that I wonder how they sell anything.

 

So from this I see that perhaps I'm not alone....in your opinion. Remember.....subjective there. YOUR opinion. I have never seen a person on the buying end of the negotiation EVER come up to the seller and say that the condition is too good and that because of that they are going to pay a higher price whether the seller liked it or not. Never. If you can cite an instance of this specifically, then I want to meet those folks in person.

 

c.) Well some people are investors and we cannot get around that nor is our place to tell how to collect. Many folks buy slabbed books and crack them open

 

Not unless they are screwy they don't, because once opened that book's grade is destroyed, and the book has to be regraded. Now, the person pays a premium for a graded book. You can't tell me that anyone who pays a premium for a graded book would knowingly open it unless there was a very serious and specific underlying reason affecting the original grade. It just doesn't happen that way.

 

That's why I respect slabbed books and agree that they have a place for establishing the preservation of the form, but they are still objects as opposed to readable books for the very reason that they MUST remain sealed.

 

and enjoy the book many buy slabbed books or get slabbed book to have copies of the books well preserved.

 

agreed.

 

Many folks who are very strict on grading and try and negotiate price are very knowledgeable.

 

Agreed, but most negotiations also involve the aforementioned collision between dealer necessity and collector necessity. I have absolutely no problem with that whatsoever. In fact, I enjoy "haggling" if the end result is a deal that both parties can be happy with. That's part of the fun of being a dealer on one hand and a collector on the other.

 

Just because you do not like their practices or personality doesn't change this.

 

Where did I ever say I didn't like the practices? I said I noted the PURPOSES, not that I didn't like it. Nor did I let personalities enter into the discussion because everyone is different and unique and it's dealing with a plethora of collectors that makes our hobby so enjoyable. You should come and negotiate with me sometime. You might enjoy it too.

 

d.) Lots of people would worry about how you would take criticism of some of your practices. Many people do not take criticism well nor want really hear what customers have to say regardless of the fact many may have something helpful to say. Many of us listen and respect what you have to say but wonder if you really want to hear what we have to say.

 

I think I take criticism quite well. What I don't take well is if someone blindsides me. I don't know of too many people who react well to that. I absolutely have to say that I hear everything when someone talks to me, whether critical or complimentary. However, there are just some things that are possible in the business and some that are not possible. Usually the criticisms center on the latter, the latter centers on the selling prices, and unfortunately there just isn't much that can be done. So what comes down to criticism is usually actually frustration, and I can accept that. It's frustrating to me too.

 

Anyway Joe like I say I will never argue with you about your love of the industry and many of your views of it. Indeed, beyond back issue prices I would not even want to question you or offer alternative POV since I am amazed at how you can still do so well despite bringing in so much stuff. Clearly much of your business model works fine for you otherwise you would have folded long ago. I do think you could do way better back issue business with some lower prices but if your sales in this area are satisfying then by all means you are free to stay the course. Just don't expect people to change their opinions and criticism of this aspect.

 

See? Again with the back issue prices. If you must know, there have been many times I wish we could go back to the days when all the guide values and slabbed values and all that stuff didn't exist and things sold for nickels and dimes and quarters. But that's not realistic I guess in the current world. So again, having said that, what is your constructive alternative to that specific situation? Remember, up there I earlier stated that I invite constructive solutions to the problems, so this is your chance to be SPECIFIC. All retailers might benefit from such an idea.

 

I also know, from talking with you, that you are a nice well intentioned person. You just come off a bit too cocky sometimes and it has lead to much of the negative image of you.

 

I try my hardest to downplay stuff sometimes, but short of wearing a paper bag (might improve the looks, who knows?....joke...ha ha...humour....not serious here, ok?) someone will always react to some remark or something meant to be innocuous as being bravado.

 

There is not really much you can do about that though. Clearly some people are jealous of your success.

 

Can't help that either. I wish it was different. I wonder if people are the same with Chuck or even Doug (both Dougs) and for sure Steve G.? I find that if people spend their time and energy being jealous of someone else, it's time and energy that they take away from their own success or potential success. Which I suppose perpetuates the jealousy towards someone else and on and on and on ......So hey folks, stop doing that and be more successful! (Hey, can I build a motivational speaking career on this?)

 

I really hope I did not offend you with any of this but I need to express this here so you understand how some of us

 

Again you have set yourself up as a spokesman for others. Those others should come right out and identify themselves and state their views separately.

 

feel and to also understand that despite any ill feelings we have had we do respect you.

 

Thanks for the respect, but I will remind you that in an earlier posting you said you straight out didn't like me. I find this strange, because I have nothing against you, nor do I recall any instance where anything I have done in my life was directed specifically at you in a negative way or may have affected specifically you in a negative way or was derogatory to you specifically in a negative way. So if you can name a specific incident, please privately message me and I will be the first one to apologize to you.

 

Now thatI have broken the record for lengthy specific responses, I rest.

[thirdgreenham]

Sleep well....

 

 

Andy

[jbud73]

Its actually about 2500 miles so sometimes it takes me a while to respond.

 

I can remember quite vividly the first time I ever walked into Comics Paradise AKA Styx Comics service in the North End of Winnipeg - I was about 8 years old. I think the thing that sticks out for me is the smell, that paper storage smell that only comes from a comic shop - in a similar fashion to Comic World in its old Portage Ave location there were comics everywhere, for the size of the city Styx had a lot of floor space and it was one of those classic elements, wire spinner racks attached to the wall, fanzines, magazines, T-shirts, toys the whole wack. I remember a JIM 87 on the upper wall over the doorway, being 8 It was my fav thing to stare up at when I walked in and out. The ever present 1984 (I believe) red and white Corvette in the parking lot. I think its safe to say the Mr. Krolik's store was my childhood LCS. From about 8-14 years old every single $$ I spent on comics went into that store.

 

Slowly I ventured downtown to other establishments and learned more and more about comics and grading, bought an OS, started attending a few of the very small local shows, reading fanzines and absorbing more and more knowledge about the stories, art and industry in general. The interesting and irrefutable thing I found about my increase in comic knowledge was that the more I learned about the facets of the hobby, the fewer trips I made to Styx Comics paradise, my old LCS. Within the collectors in the "Peg as its known, Mr. Krolik's establishments were characterized as the place to go when you had exhausted all other avenues of obtaining a back issue. You were/are in reality paying for the convenience of just being able to buy the book in question. Of course with the proliferation of access by collectors, with the advent of the CBG - bigger and bigger conventions and of course the 800 lb gorilla known as EBAY - there are more avenues than ever to obtain the book you want in the condition you want for a competitive price.

 

After studying and living abroad for a number of years, I remember driving around the old neighborhood to notice that STYX had closed up shop - I ventured downtown and inquired with the last LCS owner I bought stuff off of before my last move to the US - he indicated that the Academy location was still open, so I strolled in. There was a lot of the same nostalgia in that store, I had a quick look through the back issue bins, smiled to myself, bought a TPB and walked out of the store.

 

Am I jealous of Mr. Krolik's success? no I look at it like this. He provided a service, he ran a brick and mortar for many years and allowed people to be exposed to the hobby. His business was successful and for that I offer my congratulations and over the years I probably paid more for products with Mr. Krolik than I could have, or should have, so I guess we are even. Now that I can spend a higher level of discretionary income on comics as I please - I won't offer my wallet and give thanks by over paying for a product that can be gotten elsewhere. I think that's just common sense.

 

In his analogies to some previous commentary Mr. Krolik stated that he as yet to view a customer who was willing to pay MORE for a book because It was nicer than he was expecting. Well I have YET to see a DEALER pay more for a comic than the asking price because they admit that the book is nicer than anticipated. Mr. Krolik it works both ways. I'm also slightly amused by the nostalgic references that were used in tacit justification for the dealer perspective in Mr. Krolik's responses. I have first hand knowledge of some acquaintances selling their collections to Joe - TRUST ME, in that scenario he checks nostalgia at the door and its all business.

 

Rgs,

 

Jason Budnick

970 Inkster St. (childhood residence)

Monterey, CA (current residence)

[codfish]

Hi Aaron: That's your opinion and I respect it. But you miss out on a lot of reasonably priced stuff because of what may be a narrow viewpoint.

 

Well some of it may be reasonably priced but it is rare that it is something I desire for my collection thus my search in other locales. Be local, or distant.

 

So here you state that you're price driven only, to the exclusion of every other consideration. Also your prerogative, and your choice.

 

Well if price misrepresents the grade and market price then sure price will be paramount.

 

First, anyone who shares the same opinion should come forward. You should not set yourself up as the defacto spokeperson for local fandom. Your statement above is a non-issue because I've heard the same criticism of many places. Nice to see that on the once-every few months (I think) that you actually attend the store you take the time to assess what others are doing. You should be in the consulting business maybe.

 

Well you have had people other than me state displeasure with back issue prices but you blow them off because they may not have ids you find satisfying. I know plenty of folks probably would not want to speak up simple because the feel that you may not react well and if they want to keep shopping in your store they do not want to upset you.

 

Whether you like it or not you do have the reputation of grossly overpricing your back issues. I have no idea why no one has ever come to you about it except that they figure that they have no chance to negotiate a better price. Whether justified or not many people are just too shy I suppose. For me I just couldn't be bothered to haggle when I could look elsewhere locally or on the net.

 

Well, you may know how to grade, but you may not know about the economics of stores. There are what might be termed intangible costs attached to every item.

 

I had a store for a year and learned alot about intangible costs and about running a business in general. I have worked local shows as well which have taught me alot about the Winnipeg market. Dealing with other locals with selling and buying from I know just how much they do buy books for and how much they mark up.

 

You're not accounting for a couple of things on this one: First, it was probably (and I'll use that word here because again it's a single item which I can't pinpoint exactly), priced a few years ago for guide with Canadian dollar exchange added. If it was a number of years ago, that exchange could have been as much as 40% or more. Remember that you have to separate guide pricing from Canadian pricing because guides are quoted in US$. If it was on sale, it would have been half the tag price, so that changes that argument there. Lastly, we constantly try to go through and keep the bins updated as things in the marketchage, but with close to 100,000 bin back issues, it's a truth that there isn't enough time to hit everything, so there'll always be something out of whack and sure enough someone will find it and latch onto it to bolster this kind of argument. Have an issue with a price? Bring it up to me, state the issue you have with it and let's see if there's merit. I'm willing to listen and negotiate. See comments further on.....

 

Yeah I have heard this many times before but I learned that rarely should I ever expect to get guide plus exchange. Even taking into account exchange the mentioned book was over the NM- guide price which is a bit impossible.

 

Really? And you knew that someone else immediately had one? I guess they aren't as hard to find as they are made out to be, which may very well be the case. You yourself stated right up there that it "probably is the only one in a Winnipeg stores [sic]" so that kinda knocks that argument out a wee bit.

 

So I should buy impulsively? Is this what you are getting at? I should overpay instead of wait? So what if you may have had the only copy in town at the time?

 

What's your definition of "later"? A day? week? month?

 

Hmmm ... in this case probably a year later and locally. Patience paid off as it does trying to complete my Wonder Woman collection.

 

So from this I see that perhaps I'm not alone....in your opinion. Remember.....subjective there. YOUR opinion. I have never seen a person on the buying end of the negotiation EVER come up to the seller and say that the condition is too good and that because of that they are going to pay a higher price whether the seller liked it or not. Never. If you can cite an instance of this specifically, then I want to meet those folks in person.

 

Even at local shows I never negotiate if I feel a price is too high I walk away. If I feel a price is fair I pay it. I have even paid LOTS of cash for some books such as a Wonder Woman #98 that was in a eBay lot with two other books I already had. Essentially I paid $280 CDN for the one book because it was in a satisfactory grade. I didn't feel it was stupid at the time and I still don't because the book is scarce. So clearly I will pay a premium if I know a book is worth it.

 

Not unless they are screwy they don't, because once opened that book's grade is destroyed, and the book has to be regraded. Now, the person pays a premium for a graded book. You can't tell me that anyone who pays a premium for a graded book would knowingly open it unless there was a very serious and specific underlying reason affecting the original grade. It just doesn't happen that way.

 

There are plenty that don't open a slab and there are plenty that do (just poll people here and you will find out). They pay the premium (if at all) for the security in knowing that they have bought a book free of restoration. I personally have not opened any of the few slabbed books i have but because most I sent in to be graded myself and read them before hand. The others I have bought simply to have a better copy of some of my favorite books. Since I already have "reader" copies there is no reason to open the case. I have enjoyed them and if I ever wanted to again I could either open the case or read my reader copies. I could always get them graded again.

 

That's why I respect slabbed books and agree that they have a place for establishing the preservation of the form, but they are still objects as opposed to readable books for the very reason that they MUST remain sealed.

 

Again many people do in fact open the case and "enjoy" the book. Investors or high end collectors may not but that is their choice and one a certainly would not condemn. Whether they are objects or not to these people doesn't matter to me. I might not understand it but that's life. Certainly there are alot of books that have more than one incarnation (ie many books have been reprinted) so that leaves collectors the option of objectifying there valuable books while being able to get the satisfaction of the story from another source.

 

You should come and negotiate with me sometime. You might enjoy it too.

 

Perhaps I may but I personally can do without it as it is time consumptive and my time in Winnipeg is limited. Who knows what the future holds though.

 

See? Again with the back issue prices. If you must know, there have been many times I wish we could go back to the days when all the guide values and slabbed values and all that stuff didn't exist and things sold for nickels and dimes and quarters. But that's not realistic I guess in the current world. So again, having said that, what is your constructive alternative to that specific situation? Remember, up there I earlier stated that I invite constructive solutions to the problems, so this is your chance to be SPECIFIC. All retailers might benefit from such an idea.

 

Well for one thing I do not understand why some of your newer book suddenly have a higher price as soon as they go into the back issue bins. This is something I noted even before you established your seemingly permanent 50% off discount. Why not just price them at cover and maybe a buck more for some of the "hotter" titles? Many stores seem to price at par to a fraction of exchange why have you never? (For older back issues) I know from selling to dealers, being a dealer, etc that the idea is to buy as cheaply as possible and often you can get some really decent books for very very cheap ... basically so that it is hard not to make a profit of of them in any way. I certainly know that the idea is profit but as you know Winnipeggers are a cheap bunch and sometimes pandering in a small way to that mentality can help the bottom line. The way a see it if you can still make good profit but cut the price then why not. I am not talking about selling out but make it seem like the seller is getting a deal without the effort.

 

I thought the idea was not to have to sit on stock be it new or old?

 

Again you have set yourself up as a spokesman for others. Those others should come right out and identify themselves and state their views separately.

 

Yeah that would be great. There are not a huge number of 'peggers here though and even then many may not wish to bite the hand that may feed them.

 

Thanks for the respect, but I will remind you that in an earlier posting you said you straight out didn't like me. I find this strange, because I have nothing against you, nor do I recall any instance where anything I have done in my life was directed specifically at you in a negative way or may have affected specifically you in a negative way or was derogatory to you specifically in a negative way. So if you can name a specific incident, please privately message me and I will be the first one to apologize to you.

 

There are lots of people I may not like but have a respect for. Like John McCain for example. There were no instance of derogatory actions against me. Just a few things when I was in business that hurt my operations and just a few minor things that are in your nature that rub me the wrong way. None of it is enough to stop me from talking to you, listening to what you have to say, and considering it. If I really disliked you I would just stay away from the store but I don't. I will still buy from you unlike another former dealer in the city. Put it this way you have never done anything bad enough to me to mistrust or not hold respect for you. I can't say the same for some other folks though.

[Joe Krolik-migration]

Well for one thing I do not understand why some of your newer book suddenly have a higher price as soon as they go into the back issue bins. This is something I noted even before you established your seemingly permanent 50% off discount. Why not just price them at cover and maybe a buck more for some of the "hotter" titles? Many stores seem to price at par to a fraction of exchange why have you never? (For older back issues) I know from selling to dealers, being a dealer, etc that the idea is to buy as cheaply as possible and often you can get some really decent books for very very cheap ... basically so that it is hard not to make a profit of of them in any way. I certainly know that the idea is profit but as you know Winnipeggers are a cheap bunch and sometimes pandering in a small way to that mentality can help the bottom line. The way a see it if you can still make good profit but cut the price then why not. I am not talking about selling out but make it seem like the seller is getting a deal without the effort.

 

I thought the idea was not to have to sit on stock be it new or old?

 

I wanted to specifically address this paragraph because it's important for people to understand the nature of dealing back issues (or if you think you already do understand, this might shed further light on it and perhaps illustrate some of the economics of the business).

 

The key to everything is contained in your first sentence up there. So everyone read the first sentence of the quote again. I'll wait..... Got it? OK. Now....read this.....

 

We sell from a full cart and design the store to keep new issues at cover price on the racks for anywhere from three to five months.

 

Repeat:

 

We sell from a full cart and design the store to keep new issues at cover price on the racks for anywhere from three to five months.

 

Repeat again:

 

We sell from a full cart and design the store to keep new issues at cover price on the racks for anywhere from three to five months.

 

This gives 99.9% of the people who might ever want a specific issue a pretty decent chance to get it. Only larger stores in larger centers persue this philosophy.

 

The philosophy is: Give everyone a decent chance to get the book at regular price. Period.

 

Go back and read that line again. I'll wait..... got it?

 

We get messed up on this sometimes of course when something gets so hot that it sells out in a week. or two. or three. whatever..... You can't anticipate everything.

 

But my philosophy is to give everyone as much of a chance as possible to find what they want as near to original price as possible.

 

Now, having said that, I will proceed to ruffle some feathers:

 

It isn't my fault (nor the fault of any other dealer in the entire world) if a collector doesn't avail himself or herself of that window of opportunity to buy the book(s).

 

See? Now you're all upset. Oh well.....

 

Now, having said THAT, we price from the Canadian cover price upwards, taking into account many factors on a given issue, and even then, almost everything is standardized at a base increase, which needs to be there because of the associated costs of doing business. Remember.....THREE TO FIVE MONTHS of hanging onto something and absorbing the cost of same, in order to provide this service to local and non-local fans and collectors.

 

We established the 50% discount on back issues to give further pricing relief to collectors based on my "wish" comment in my previous posting. It's been a rousing success and we've gotten tremendous positive feedback.

 

And that's it. Now.....Winnipeggers are no different from folks anywhere else. Again, it boils down to getting a deal that both parties are happy with. Next, I've seen what other stores do and do not do, and that's their business. But you go compare the essence of some of those places to the essence of C.A.. You oughta be real happy that a place like C.A. exists to give these services to collectors. Next....the idea is NOT to buy collections as cheaply as possible. The idea is to buy collections for as close to what the seller wants for his or her collection and again ......so BOTH PARTIES come away from the deal satisfied. Nobody holds a gun at the other's head to complete a deal. (So Jason Budnick up there.....your stuff about people who've sold collections and are then (apparently) unhappy is absolutely nonsense, because no one was forcing them to sell. I can say the same thing about anyone selling to any dealer, whether it be Chuck, Doug, Steve, Marnin, Dan, or a hundred others more well known than myself. It's a red herring. Oh....and incidentally, I remember you now because as I recall you stopped and talked with me at length. Good to hear from you again.)

 

Anyways, I think we've pretty much plumbed the depths of this line of stuff (oh by the way Aaron, you do lots of stuff that "rubs me the wrong way" too, so I guess we're even. Come and have a coffee sometime.

 

All replies pro and con are invited both publicly and privately.

[codfish]

Oh I know perfectly well that I rub you and many others the wrong way. I am not in the business of making money I am just a consumer and a consumer that tries to get a fair market for myself and others (my theory being that what is good for me as a consumer is good for other consumers). That being said there are plenty of people I get along fine with. At the end of the day it all balances out.

 

While I commend the logic you mention, unnecessarily, again and again above and I don't see a problem with it really, but maybe carrying less (quantity per issue) of many of your books would provide you with more sell through and not have to force you to use standardized increases to defer costs of shelving books for so long. As you say it is not your fault if collectors cannot cash in in time (something with which I agree with completely). You carry enough stuff that I am fairly confident that your discount plateau would not be at risk (unlike many other in the city).

 

Whether or not you get a collection/small amount of books from someone I am fairly sure that you will negotiate a price that offers you the most leeway for profit on resale. I don't think any dealer would want to try and send someone out the door unhappy with the deal but again buying books at guide is not an option.

 

Now I fully agree too that you have all the right to sell the books at what ever price but logic would state that always having "fair" prices would probably work better than marking up to later offer a "sale" that then bring the prices into a more fair price range.

 

Anyway the point(s) is(are) moot since you say that sales are fine. Like I said much earlier my focus is almost strictly new issues when I come in. I rarely look for back issues since most of what I want none of the stores in Winnipeg has or if they do most prices are a bit too unreasonable for the condition OR they are not high on my priority list and I will wait to buy them. My priority is on first series Wonder Womans right now and no one in Winnipeg has the issues I am looking for right now.

 

Leaving all this crud behind do you have any copies of the Manhunter #26 variant cover and if so how much are they?

[Joe Krolik-migration]

 

I agree that we've pretty much plumbed out all the avenues of argument on this. But I do want to take note of the above comment, because it kinda validates what I said earlier.....so what's the point of having a price guide anyway if no one would want to abide by what should otherwise be fair and standard pricing? Try that with philatelists or numismatists. My gosh, the whole realm of collectible "value" would go straight down the toilet! Maybe that's not such a bad thing.....

 

Yep, I've got Manhunter 26 variants.

 

Come on down and we'll have that coffee and discuss it.

 

and one last thing:

Now I fully agree too that you have all the right to sell the books at what ever price but logic would state that always having "fair" prices would probably work better than marking up to later offer a "sale" that then bring the prices into a more fair price range.

 

The point you miss is that we could sell at the regular back issue price. Stuff would sell anyway. Trust me. Doing it this way makes the price MORE THAN FAIR. Like someone up there way back near the top said, the price actually works out to LESS THAN COVER in a great many of the cases, especially on recent items that are in short supply. I neglected to make this point earlier on.

 

By the way.....4:30 in the morning? Yeesh!!