Late Reserves in the Heritage auction?

[sacentaur]

I was enjoying a reprint of the first Plastic Man story from Police 1 last night, so thought I'd wander over to Heritage this morning and see what they're offering.

 

Log In: oh look, a Police Comics 2 in high grade with off-white to white pages! So says the website, so says their catalog.

 

I first see the note, "Reserve On This Lot Not Yet Posted" (4 days from the auction end?).

 

Then I look closer at the scan....hmm, the CGC label clearly shows cream to off-white pages.

 

...and all interest in the book instantly evaporated.

 

Log out.

 

STEVE

[Scrooge]

[sacentaur]

 

(well done, Michael!)

 

STEVE

[sacentaur]

And the beat goes on (ta de da...)

 

<<< Q: Hello, I was browsing some of your eBay auctions and noticed you were selling a Detective 27. I am a consignment director at Heritage Auction Galleries in Dallas, TX. Our auctions are marketed to the largest bidders and collectors in the industry and realize higher prices than any venue around. We could market and sell your items for much higher prices than on eBay. If you’re interested in selling any of your items in one of our upcoming auctions, please contact me at: andrewn@heritageauctions.com Thank you Andrew Heritage Auctions Here is a link to information about selling an item(s) in any of our auctions: http://coins.heritageauctions.com/common/consignment_process.php Here is another link from our website with information about consigning to our auctions: http://www.heritageauctions.com/common/consigning.php>>>

 

<<<Q: Hello, I saw the note from Heritage. Please post this after their email - tell them they're a bunch of scumbags for trying to steal this comic from you. Too bad they don't have any integrity. Ignore those greedy *spoon*.

Nov-11-06

A: hello dont worry i am not going to end the auction for them ,they are something,thanks>>>

 

(exchange on ebay the other day, FYI)

 

STEVE

[tth2]

How does a generic marketing email (and wouldn't Heritage be stupid NOT to market their services to someone capable of owning a Tec 27?) translate into trying to "steal the book" or requesting to end the auction early? Some of the criticism directed at Heritage is legitimate, but the level of vitriol is just ridiculous.

[Scrooge]

How does a generic marketing email (and wouldn't Heritage be stupid NOT to market their services to someone capable of owning a Tec 27?) translate into trying to "steal the book" or requesting to end the auction early? Some of the criticism directed at Heritage is legitimate, but the level of vitriol is just ridiculous.

 

Tim,

 

while the response posted on eBay is certainly vitriolic, idiotic and certainly using language I wouldn't condone, you have to agree that the message sent by the Heritage employee if not illegal (I don't know what the rules of solicitations to transfer a transaction / auction off the eBay system are and if they are actionable) is certainly un-ethical. It does not in my mind reflect well on the Heritage organization. Considering the amount of ill-feeling against them, adding oil to the flames is not the best method to quell the fire.

[tth2]

How does a generic marketing email (and wouldn't Heritage be stupid NOT to market their services to someone capable of owning a Tec 27?) translate into trying to "steal the book" or requesting to end the auction early? Some of the criticism directed at Heritage is legitimate, but the level of vitriol is just ridiculous.

 

Tim,

 

while the response posted on eBay is certainly vitriolic, idiotic and certainly using language I wouldn't condone, you have to agree that the message sent by the Heritage employee if not illegal (I don't know what the rules of solicitations to transfer a transaction / auction off the eBay system are and if they are actionable) is certainly un-ethical. It does not in my mind reflect well on the Heritage organization. Considering the amount of ill-feeling against them, adding oil to the flames is not the best method to quell the fire.

Maybe I'm just reading it differently? I read it as "if in the future you want to sell some books, think about us", and I guess others are reading it as "don't sell the Tec 27 on eBay, sell it through us".

 

If it's the latter, then I agree it's unethical, but I just don't see those words being used, and you'd have to be reading it with a major predisposition against Heritage to interpret it that way. If it's the former, I don't know how it's different than emails I've received from dealers saying "you should've sold the book through me instead of eBay, I could've gotten you a better price, so next time think about selling to me". Or for that matter any time an ad agency tries to pry a company away from their existing ad agency, a law firm tries to pry a client away from another law firm, a beer company tries to get you to drink their beer, etc., etc.

[Scrooge]

Maybe I'm just reading it differently? I read it as "if in the future you want to sell some books, think about us", and I guess others are reading it as "don't sell the Tec 27 on eBay, sell it through us".

 

I'll retract what I said. I think I first heard about this through a second-hand report here on the board and that person hinted that Heritage was looking at the withdrawal of the 'Tec 27. Clearly the message reposted by Sacentaur here does not imply that at all.

[tth2]

Maybe I'm just reading it differently? I read it as "if in the future you want to sell some books, think about us", and I guess others are reading it as "don't sell the Tec 27 on eBay, sell it through us".

 

I'll retract what I said. I think I first heard about this through a second-hand report here on the board and that person hinted that Heritage was looking at the withdrawal of the 'Tec 27. Clearly the message reposted by Sacentaur here does not imply that at all.

Another conspiracy theory killed by a brutal gang of facts.

[sacentaur]

Tim, you will let us know when you schedule the celebration parade, won't you?

 

You seem so anxious to exonerate Heritage at each and every opportunity - geez, do you have a bunch of books on commission with them or what?

 

Let's put on our thinking caps and try to look beyond the obvious...e.g., the fact that Heritage knocks ebay yet at the same time lists books and art there (as does the infamous Lewis Wayne Gallery). Strange contradiction, eh?

 

I too was taken aback by the level of animosity displayed by the quoted poster. I wonder what brought him/her to that level?

 

STEVE

[tth2]

You seem so anxious to exonerate Heritage at each and every opportunity - geez, do you have a bunch of books on commission with them or what?

Steve, all I'm trying to do is present a balanced picture, because it seems to be pretty much one-way traffic otherwise. I'd like to think I'd be saying the same thing even if I didn't have books up on Heritage. Perhaps people won't believe me, and perhaps I'm deluding myself, but that is what I think.

 

Let's put on our thinking caps and try to look beyond the obvious...e.g., the fact that Heritage knocks ebay yet at the same time lists books and art there (as does the infamous Lewis Wayne Gallery). Strange contradiction, eh?

Of course they want to be the principal sales channel, but are willing to use eBay as an alternate sales channel (so long as they're picking up the lion's shares of the sales commissions). That's just good business. Ever notice how clothing manufacturers will have name brand stores, but will also sell their products in outlet malls?

 

I too was taken aback by the level of animosity displayed by the quoted poster. I wonder what brought him/her to that level?

And yet you felt obliged to post it, without any editorial comment on your part, perhaps leading others to conclude they represented your opinion too?

[tb]

tth2,

 

I've been following the discussion on Heritage for 4 years now. My own views are very similiar to yours. I don't particularly like Heritage but they have always treated me well and I like their service. I respect how you have always represented a balanced view in these discussions, both before and after you consigned your books to them.

 

Recently, I've been reading a great book, "The Medici Conspiracy" by Peter Watson and Cecilia Todeschini about the international trade of looted antiquities. It documents how some of the biggest and most respected auction houses knowingly have dealt with shady dealers that organized tomb robberies in Southern Europe. When a thousand year old tomb is opened, it is extremely important for archaeologists to map the artifacts within it. By shifting around, breaking, and removing the contents, tomb robbers deprive the rest of us, as well as future generations, from ever learning about their context and history. As bad as trimming a comic book or shilling an auction might be, nothing that Jason Ewert, Daniel Dupcak(sp?), or Jim Halperin ever did comes close to being as hideous and greedy as the practices Christie's and Sotheby's participated in for decades. Anyway, just wanted to recommend this book to anyone with an opinion about Heritage.

[sacentaur]

I too was taken aback by the level of animosity displayed by the quoted poster. I wonder what brought him/her to that level?

And yet you felt obliged to post it, without any editorial comment on your part, perhaps leading others to conclude they represented your opinion too?

 

You give me too much credit (if only I were so clever) - we're all big boys here and can form our own opinions.

 

The thing I find most objectionable is that the Heritage apologists make it sound like their critics are part of some UFO/Area 51 conspiracy. Indeed, you thought I was a shill when I first appeared on this board, but know different now.

 

Someone else mentioned real estate fraud - there is a local (very successful) agent in my area who cheats people left and right, yet the other day a friend's mom told me just how wonderful the agent was because she went to church every Sunday.

 

I didn't even bother to try and burst her bubble.

 

STEVE

[sacentaur]

Recently, I've been reading a great book, "The Medici Conspiracy" by Peter Watson and Cecilia Todeschini about the international trade of looted antiquities.

 

tb, I love history and the book sounds intriguing - I'll follow your recommendation and pick up a copy (thnx).

 

STEVE

[tth2]

The thing I find most objectionable is that the Heritage apologists make it sound like their critics are part of some UFO/Area 51 conspiracy.

Fair enough. By the same token, the Heritage critics make it sound like everything that happens on Heritage is all part of some evil master plan to defraud comic collectors everywhere. As with the late reserve issue that started this thread, sometimes it's just incompetence or negligence.

[Filter81]

By the same token, the Heritage critics make it sound like everything that happens on Heritage is all part of some evil master plan to defraud comic collectors everywhere . As with the late reserve issue that started this thread, sometimes it's just incompetence or negligence.

 

Honestly? You type that and still claim you are just trying to present an honest, fair and balanced viewpoint with your posts? Tim, in my opinion, the vast majority of your posts on the subject really do come across like you genuinely are just trying to present a balanced viewpoint. But every once and a while you type something like that, and suddenly your motivation for posting on these topics appears a little more blurry. Is it your contention that everyone who has a problem with something Heritage does (including the things that are known for sure to occur) thinks and says that all of Heritage's actions are part of their "evil master plan"? Or did you embellish and say something untrue in a thread where you say your only motivation for posting is to present the facts? Honestly, this particular post of yours reads to me the same way as Fox News does when they try to pretend they are offering "fair and balanced" coverage.

 

 

Anyway, regarding the topic that started this thread, was there another round of reserve bumps last night? I haven't been following this auction real close, but wasn't the reserve on the Batman 1 set at $75,000 up until yesterday? Today its at $100,000. Weird mistake to make. Do you think someone at Heritage accidentally hit a 7 5 and 3 zeros when they were trying to type in a 1 and 5 zeros on the keyboard?

 

I don't know what the deal with the late reserves are, as its not a phenomena that I've ever noticed before. (Even when I purchased through Heritage in the past, I usually waited until the last day of the auction to look around on their site and the reserves are always placed by then.) But if the problem here is that Heritage just makes mistakes on dozens of books in every auction, to me that seems like a bigger problem than some sort of last minute ploy to increase bidding or whatever.

 

(For the record, I actually don't have a problem with Heritage's last minute reserves. While I can see why they would be annoying to some, its still considerably better than when they just used to increase the auction price by raising the bid prices themselves and let people think they were bidding against other bidders when in reality they were bidding against Heritage's secret reserves..)

 

Many of the Heritage apologists on this board have already said that they believe Heritage has no obligation to try to get their consignors the best prices possible on their consigned books. If Heritage is also allowed to make as many mistakes as they want in each of their auctions.. it seems to me they are doing very little to earn their 30% commission.

[Timulty]

It seems like the reserves in the Signature Auction in April(?) posted late as well. Interestly, I know a lot of the Fawcetts in this auction were in the April. So, perhaps the seller calls the shots on when the reserves post to some extent?

[jkrk]

I didn't notice earlier but let me be the first to congratulate you on post # 11111.

 

Hopefully you can reach your next milestone # 22222 next year at this time.

 

Jay

[tth2]

By the same token, the Heritage critics make it sound like everything that happens on Heritage is all part of some evil master plan to defraud comic collectors everywhere . As with the late reserve issue that started this thread, sometimes it's just incompetence or negligence.

 

Honestly? You type that and still claim you are just trying to present an honest, fair and balanced viewpoint with your posts? Tim, in my opinion, the vast majority of your posts on the subject really do come across like you genuinely are just trying to present a balanced viewpoint. But every once and a while you type something like that, and suddenly your motivation for posting on these topics appears a little more blurry. Is it your contention that everyone who has a problem with something Heritage does (including the things that are known for sure to occur) thinks and says that all of Heritage's actions are part of their "evil master plan"? Or did you embellish and say something untrue in a thread where you say your only motivation for posting is to present the facts? Honestly, this particular post of yours reads to me the same way as Fox News does when they try to pretend they are offering "fair and balanced" coverage.

I won't pretend I wasn't engaging in a bit of rhetorical hyperbole.

 

But seriously, what else do you call it when something like the late reserves pop up and quite a few peoples' immediate knee-jerk reaction is that Heritage is doing something nefarious to rig the bidding? (George/Jive, this statement isn't aimed at you, it's just that the late reserves are the latest example of this phenomenon).

 

Admittedly I probably shouldn't have baited people with my post above. I was just turning Sacentaur's words back on him. Sometimes my smart-aleck side can't be suppressed.

 

Anyway, regarding the topic that started this thread, was there another round of reserve bumps last night? I haven't been following this auction real close, but wasn't the reserve on the Batman 1 set at $75,000 up until yesterday? Today its at $100,000. Weird mistake to make. Do you think someone at Heritage accidentally hit a 7 5 and 3 zeros when they were trying to type in a 1 and 5 zeros on the keyboard?

 

I don't know what the deal with the late reserves are, as its not a phenomena that I've ever noticed before. (Even when I purchased through Heritage in the past, I usually waited until the last day of the auction to look around on their site and the reserves are always placed by then.) But if the problem here is that Heritage just makes mistakes on dozens of books in every auction, to me that seems like a bigger problem than some sort of last minute ploy to increase bidding or whatever.

Good question. For the record, I don't have a problem with people raising Heritage's defects, and lord knows there's enough of them. I've had more than a few hiccups during my current consignment, which has irritated me to no end.

 

I didn't notice any of the even-later reserve bumps, and doubt I know the consignors of any of them, so won't be able to shed any further light on the matter. I agree with you that incompetence, particularly when it's bordering on negligence, is a huge problem for a company, and Heritage have got to do some fixing to do. But there is a difference in my opinion between incompetence and intentional wrong-doing, even if the result in some cases might be the same.

[tth2]

I didn't notice earlier but let me be the first to congratulate you on post # 11111.

 

Hopefully you can reach your next milestone # 22222 next year at this time.

 

Jay

Thanks Jay! I never notice things like my post counts, and have had all of my milestones pointed out to me after the fact!

 

If I reach #22222 by next year, please shoot me, because that would mean I've been spending wa-a-a-a-y too much time here!