Pre-Golden Age (1933-38) - The Birth of the Modern Comic Book 0

[showcase4]

Of monumental historical importance and key in modern comic book developement is this book...IMO THE single most important comic book of this entire 5 year time period. This claim is not because I have a copy....I have a copy because of the claim. These images are from the "The Superman" thread from a few months back, and are worthy of posting again in this thread.

 

Detective Dan Secret Operative No.48 holds the following distinctions:

 

1. 1st comic with original art

1. 1st comic of a single theme

1. 1st appearance of Wu Fang

1. 1st newsstand comic book ( arguably - this is not universally agreed upon )

1. 1st comic book to influence Siegel and Shuster for the conversion of Superman into a comic book good character from his evil Fanzine character debut.

 

 

Compelling arguments to be sure. And you know it is now on my want list, in a big way!

 

The only thing keeping it from being a major key in my opinion is that the series didn't continue like Detective did, or New/More Fun, New Comics/New Adventure/Adventure.

 

Those cousins of DD had an impact from their outset and then continued to influence the industry for decades to come.

 

agreed....the fact that it is a one-shot has definately kept Detective Dan's wide spread appeal somewhat limited compared to the 1st issue of a long lived, popular title...like your Detective #1

[Theagenes]

Compelling arguments to be sure. And you know it is now on my want list, in a big way!

 

The only thing keeping it from being a major key in my opinion is that the series didn't continue like Detective did, or New/More Fun, New Comics/New Adventure/Adventure.

 

Those cousins of DD had an impact from their outset and then continued to influence the industry for decades to come.

 

Well, it is also the first appearance of Dan Dunn (more important than Wu Fang IMO), who went on to have a long running newspaper strip and even a short lived radio show. The reprints of the strip were a back up feature in Crackajack Funnies.

 

I suppose what fascinates me the most about the Humor books is that are incredibly inportant and yet we know so little about them and their publisher. We don't even know for sure exactly when they were published or in what order, though it does seem pretty clear that DD was first. As far as datable information goes these are things we have as far aas I know (Steve, I'm doing this memory so please correct me if I'm wrong):

 

1) Detective Dan is copyrighted 1933 and has an ad for kids to enter contest, the entries for which have to be postmarked by April of that year (Is that correct, Steve?). That gives us a solid terminus ante quem of April 1933 for DD, probably several months earlier so the kids would have time to get their entries in.

 

2) Interviews with Siegel (NEMO #2?) suggest they were looking at DD in spring of 1933. The similarities with the two looped "O's" in the word "Cartoons" on both the early Superman cover which Schuster tried to burn and cover of Ace King suggest that S&S had also seen the latter. The burning of the Superman cover took place in the Fall of 1933, giving a terminus ante quem of Sept./Oct. 1933 for Ace King.

 

3) Bob Scully has an ad for Happy Mulligan which doesn't seem to have been published. DD has ad for DD #2 and Ace King has an ad for Ace King #2, neither of which seem to have been published. Steve, maybe you can confirm this but I seem to remember reading in the Platinum List archives that Ace King has an ad for Bob Scully. Is that correct or is my memory faulty?

 

4) Ace King and Bob Scully are the same size, but DD is slightly larger, suggesting that DD was first.

 

This suggests to me the order of publication was DD, AK, BS, (?). Jon Berk pointed out in the old "Before New Fun" thread that the second Joe Palooka strip in Funnies on Parade appeared in papers on June 4, 1933, meaning that FoP had to have come after that. So one thing that can be said for certain is that Detective Dan predates Funnies on Parade by at least a couple of months and probably longer than that.

[showcase4]

Compelling arguments to be sure. And you know it is now on my want list, in a big way!

 

The only thing keeping it from being a major key in my opinion is that the series didn't continue like Detective did, or New/More Fun, New Comics/New Adventure/Adventure.

 

Those cousins of DD had an impact from their outset and then continued to influence the industry for decades to come.

 

Well, it is also the first appearance of Dan Dunn (more important than Wu Fang IMO), who went on to have a long running newspaper strip and even a short lived radio show. The reprints of the strip were a back up feature in Crackajack Funnies.

 

I suppose what fascinates me the most about the Humor books is that are incredibly inportant and yet we know so little about them and their publisher. We don't even know for sure exactly when they were published or in what order, though it does seem pretty clear that DD was first. As far as datable information goes these are things we have as far aas I know (Steve, I'm doing this memory so please correct me if I'm wrong):

 

1) Detective Dan is copyrighted 1933 and has an ad for kids to enter contest, the entries for which have to be postmarked by April of that year (Is that correct, Steve?). That gives us a solid terminus ante quem of April 1933 for DD, probably several months earlier so the kids would have time to get their entries in.

 

2) Interviews with Siegel (NEMO #2?) suggest they were looking at DD in spring of 1933. The similarities with the two looped "O's" in the word "Cartoons" on both the early Superman cover which Schuster tried to burn and cover of Ace King suggest that S&S had also seen the latter. The burning of the Superman cover took place in the Fall of 1933, giving a terminus ante quem of Sept./Oct. 1933 for Ace King.

 

3) Bob Scully has an ad for Happy Mulligan which doesn't seem to have been published. DD has ad for DD #2 and Ace King has an ad for Ace King #2, neither of which seem to have been published. Steve, maybe you can confirm this but I seem to remember reading in the Platinum List archives that Ace King has an ad for Bob Scully. Is that correct or is my memory faulty?

 

4) Ace King and Bob Scully are the same size, but DD is slightly larger, suggesting that DD was first.

 

This suggests to me the order of publication was DD, AK, BS, (?). Jon Berk pointed out in the old "Before New Fun" thread that the second Joe Palooka strip in Funnies on Parade appeared in papers on June 4, 1933, meaning that FoP had to have come after that. So one thing that can be said for certain is that Detective Dan predates Funnies on Parade by at least a couple of months and probably longer than that.

 

this summary looks pretty solid to me

(only thing to point out, although trivial, is that Bob Scullly is 1/4" wider than Ace King, so actually all 3 books are a different size. This seems a little odd to me, as I would think that if you were a small publisher, and printing 3 books, that it would be more cost effective to have a unfiorm size for all 3, especially if they were being sold for 10 cents each.....but I'm not in the printing business, so perhaps I know not of what I speak ). As for Ace King containing an ad for Bob Scully...I'll check it out this weekend, and if it so, I can post a pic of the ad if you would like.

 

since you share a love of the history of these 3 books, you may want to get a copy of CBM #36 from 1996 (if you don't already). Here a few images to wet your apetite:

 

[Theagenes]

Got it! In fact I picked it up right after we first started discussing these books in the platinum thread a few months ago. I think it may be the only thing I've ever bought from Chuck R.

 

Interesting about size difference between AK and BS - I didn't realize that. I was thinking that the size reduction after DD might have reflected an attempt to reduce printing costs, but if they're all different sizes, maybe I'm just reading to much into that.

[esquirecomics]

Awesome books! I've never seen the Circus book before. I don't suppose you have New Fun #3 do you? I would love to see a close pic of it. As near as I can tell it seems to be the first comic with a Sci-Fi cover -- can anyone confirm that?

 

Mark, I just wanted to further clarify my reasons for starting this thread so there's no hard feelings. As the OO thread was breathing its last, Bill, Steve and I were discussing Steve's Humor books. Bill suggested that we let the OO thread die, start a pre-GA thread and move the conversation there. That was really why I started this thread -- I wasn't trying to rip-off your thread idea or steal your thunder, but the original premise of your Platinum thread was definately my inspiration.

 

Geez Jeff, please don't even be concerned about it. Anyway, copying is one of the clearest forms of flattery.

 

I wish I had a New Fun #3, but not yet.

[adamstrange]

Of monumental historical importance and key in modern comic book developement is this book...IMO THE single most important comic book of this entire 5 year time period (pre Action #1). This claim is not because I have a copy....I have a copy because of the claim. These images are from the "The Superman" thread from a few months back, and are worthy of posting again in this thread.

 

Detective Dan Secret Operative No.48 holds the following distinctions:

 

1. 1st comic with original art

1. 1st comic of a single theme

1. 1st appearance of Wu Fang

1. 1st newsstand comic book ( arguably - this is not universally agreed upon )

1. 1st comic book to influence Siegel and Shuster for the conversion of Superman into a comic book good character from his evil Fanzine character debut.

 

 

Thanks for the scans!

 

What are the story/stories like? Is one long story? Do they all star DD?

[showcase4]

http://www.toonopedia.com/dandunn.htm

[adamstrange]

http://www.toonopedia.com/dandunn.htm

 

Thanks!

 

Looks like multiple stories with different detectives.

 

Theirs were done as tabloids, and had rather odd subject matter, considering the name of the company — they were all about detectives.

[showcase4]

http://www.toonopedia.com/dandunn.htm

 

Thanks!

 

Looks like multiple stories with different detectives.

 

Theirs were done as tabloids, and had rather odd subject matter, considering the name of the company — they were all about detectives.

 

this link had misleading wording.....the "all about detectives" reference was pointing out that the 3 Humor books were all detective based characters- Dan Dunn, Ace king and Bob Scully ( all 3 were detectives) Each of the 3 Humor books though only featured the detective the book was named after...so Detective Dan only featured Detective Dan. Here is an interior page, showing the art/text that is typical of all pages within the book. Even Gifflefunk would be pleased due to the use of word balloons ( a little Obadiah Oldbuck vs. Superman humor )

 

[adamstrange]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

That looks like the last page in the issue but is number 16. Is it that short?

[showcase4]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

That looks like the last page in the issue but is number 16. Is it that short?

 

OK Adamstrange, today is your lucky day! Your persistence and interest in this book has motivated me to climb Mount Everest where this book is stored ( cool, dry, thin atmosphere....perfect for paper preservation ), I then unlocked the vault it was stored in past the 5 gaurds with MP5's, and I have taken some additional pics that you probably won't find anywhere on the internet or in any reference guide due to the scarcity of this issue, and the lack of scans provided to the collecting community as a whole.

 

The book has 36 pages including it's cover. There are 5 - 7 different stories about 5 pages long each...all featuring Detective Dan in a different adventure/story. Norman Marsh signed a panel on every page...he obviously wanted everyone to know this was his baby. These 1st 2 pics include interiors, and the last pic is of the inside of the back cover. This issue has fantastic original art throughout..some of the best! Enjoy

 

 

 

[ciorac]

Thanks for sharing!

[adamstrange]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

That looks like the last page in the issue but is number 16. Is it that short?

 

OK Adamstrange, today is your lucky day! Your persistence and interest in this book has motivated me to climb Mount Everest where this book is stored ( cool, dry, thin atmosphere....perfect for paper preservation ), I then unlocked the vault it was stored in past the 5 gaurds with MP5's, and I have taken some additional pics that you probably won't find anywhere on the internet or in any reference guide due to the scarcity of this issue, and the lack of scans provided to the collecting community as a whole.

 

The book has 36 pages including it's cover. There are 5 - 7 different stories about 5 pages long each...all featuring Detective Dan in a different adventure/story. Norman Marsh signed a panel on every page...he obviously wanted everyone to know this was his baby. These 1st 2 pics include interiors, and the last pic is of the inside of the back cover. This issue has fantastic original art throughout..some of the best! Enjoy

 

 

You da man!

 

Love the third tier on the page above and the full page splash!

[Point Five]

 

Showcase, your book is even more key than you thought: First use of the "gorilla" theme in a 1930s comic....

[jbcomicbox]

Okay....let me see if i can get this time machine working.....We start with New Fun---we will do number 3 since that has been mentioned.....

 

 

Now interestingly enough, in #4, there was an offer to join the New Fun Club and get a button (heck let's toss in some New Adventure pinbacks.....)

 

 

Although the pinback is rare, there is only one known set of the Club certificate and mailer

 

 

Now according to the wonderful article in Overstreet by Mssrs. Beerbolm et al. New Fun found its inspiration in a tabloid called Comic Cuts

 

 

Now it may be coincidence, though I doubt it that some was rubbed off from the English "Comic Cuts" (but then again who knows- and only the hearty have read this far, as I begin to talk to myself....)

 

 

Now, we venture to the time of those slick promotional give-aways and newsstand experiments..

 

...which has got some re-discovering the "missing links" in the evolutionary process...

 

 

then we journey a bit further back to the amoeba stage when is was thought that Gulf first picked up the marketing bug...

 

 

....and for some reason they changed the title...... to Gulf Funny Weekly

 

.

 

...and it was thought for the longest time that Standard Oil was just a wannabe with its A and B series....

 

 

Ut!!!! But not so fast Junior Ranger when this 1932 "no series" recently was found. So take that Gulf!!!

 

 

But that all takes back seat to the 36 issues of The Funnies which did not even work after the price was dropped from ten cents to a nickel....But George Delacourt was to rise again with his Dell Comics...with..uh...The Funnies. Try and find these suckers!!

 

 

But as we end today's history lesson, I can hear the deathening silence...and then the sudden ejaculation of disdain ......."Who cares! They ain't got no staples!"

 

I guess that is where I will have to leave it......jb

[sacentaur]

I sit down to enjoy Michigan vs Ohio State and I get blown away by this thread...

 

Steve and Jon, thank you for sharing ...awesome, Awesome, AWESOME!

 

STEVE

[adamstrange]

Thus endeth today's history lesson from-- with illustrations -- from Prof Berk!

 

Awesome post, Jon. Perhaps the best one of the year.

[RareHighGrade]

Great history lesson, but that New Fun #3 . . . what a beauty!

[showcase4]

The Funnies. Try and find these suckers!!

 

 

I can assure all of you as an active player in this market, there is nothing rare than this or any issue of The Funnies by Dell, which were printed in 1929-1930. This is the only one I have ever seen in person or in a venue like this.....

Jon ------

[Theagenes]

But as we end today's history lesson, I can hear the deathening silence...and then the sudden ejaculation of disdain ......."Who cares! They ain't got no staples!"

 

I guess that is where I will have to leave it......jb

 

The deafing silence on my my part is not from disdain, but from sheer awe.