The Crowley Copies - Pedigree or Time Warp?

[LearnedHand]

I cracked out one of my recent Crowley Copy purchases and read it. As I read it, a thought occurred to me – I might be the very first person to have ever read this particular copy!

 

I recognize that many Mile Highs (MHs) and Tom Reilly (TRs) books sat unread for years. Both the MHs and TRs, however, have been trading for approximately 30 – 35 years, and they surfaced 20 – 25 years before the slab. Compare this to the Fawcett Crowley Copies – they sat in stacks since coming off the presses and remained virtually untouched until the Crowley family decided to sell the collection approximately 6.5 years ago. And, due to a legal battle that raged for 5 of the years after the collection’s sale, the collection only recently (physically) changed hands. Finally, immediately after changing hands and being removed from the Crowley estate (and before being offered for sale), almost all high-grade copies were driven down to Sarasota and slabbed by the collection’s purchaser.

 

As such, there seems to be a very high probability that any high-grade slabbed Fawcett Crowley Copy is as unread today as a newsstand copy – with no time machine required to transport you back to a Golden Age newsstand to purchase it. This seems to give the Crowley Copies a very elite status. Granted, the page quality isn’t as fresh as that of the newsstand copy. But PQ aside, do Crowley Copies represent the most pristine (= untouched/unread) GA books known to exist?

[ciorac]

I cracked out one of my recent Crowley Copy purchases and read it. As I read it, a thought occurred to me – I might be the very first person to have ever read this particular copy!

 

I recognize that many Mile Highs (MHs) and Tom Reilly (TRs) books sat unread for years. Both the MHs and TRs, however, have been trading for approximately 30 – 35 years, and they surfaced 20 – 25 years before the slab. Compare this to the Fawcett Crowley Copies – they sat in stacks since coming off the presses and remained virtually untouched until the Crowley family decided to sell the collection approximately 6.5 years ago. And, due to a legal battle that raged for 5 of the years after the collection’s sale, the collection only recently (physically) changed hands. Finally, immediately after changing hands and being removed from the Crowley estate (and before being offered for sale), almost all high-grade copies were driven down to Sarasota and slabbed by the collection’s purchaser.

 

As such, there seems to be a very high probability that any high-grade slabbed Fawcett Crowley Copy is as unread today as a newsstand copy – with no time machine required to transport you back to a Golden Age newsstand to purchase it. This seems to give the Crowley Copies a very elite status. Granted, the page quality isn’t as fresh as that of the newsstand copy. But PQ aside, do Crowley Copies represent the most pristine (= untouched/unread) GA books known to exist?

 

Mile Highs are the pinnacle.

[Thegoldenage]

Mile Highs are the pinnacle.

 

I think you are missing the point of LearnedHand's comments.

[ciorac]

Mile Highs are the pinnacle.

 

I think you are missing the point of LearnedHand's comments.

 

Perhaps, or perhaps I was just being contrary..

[CentaurMan]

I cracked out one of my recent Crowley Copy purchases and read it. As I read it, a thought occurred to me – I might be the very first person to have ever read this particular copy!

 

I recognize that many Mile Highs (MHs) and Tom Reilly (TRs) books sat unread for years. Both the MHs and TRs, however, have been trading for approximately 30 – 35 years, and they surfaced 20 – 25 years before the slab. Compare this to the Fawcett Crowley Copies – they sat in stacks since coming off the presses and remained virtually untouched until the Crowley family decided to sell the collection approximately 6.5 years ago. And, due to a legal battle that raged for 5 of the years after the collection’s sale, the collection only recently (physically) changed hands. Finally, immediately after changing hands and being removed from the Crowley estate (and before being offered for sale), almost all high-grade copies were driven down to Sarasota and slabbed by the collection’s purchaser.

 

As such, there seems to be a very high probability that any high-grade slabbed Fawcett Crowley Copy is as unread today as a newsstand copy – with no time machine required to transport you back to a Golden Age newsstand to purchase it. This seems to give the Crowley Copies a very elite status. Granted, the page quality isn’t as fresh as that of the newsstand copy. But PQ aside, do Crowley Copies represent the most pristine (= untouched/unread) GA books known to exist?

 

Mile Highs are the pinnacle.

 

Mile Highs are sloppy seconds compared to Crowleys, is I think what his point was. And he's probably right.

[whomerjay]

[Forbush-Man]

I cracked out one of my recent Crowley Copy purchases and read it. As I read it, a thought occurred to me – I might be the very first person to have ever read this particular copy!

 

I recognize that many Mile Highs (MHs) and Tom Reilly (TRs) books sat unread for years. Both the MHs and TRs, however, have been trading for approximately 30 – 35 years, and they surfaced 20 – 25 years before the slab. Compare this to the Fawcett Crowley Copies – they sat in stacks since coming off the presses and remained virtually untouched until the Crowley family decided to sell the collection approximately 6.5 years ago. And, due to a legal battle that raged for 5 of the years after the collection’s sale, the collection only recently (physically) changed hands. Finally, immediately after changing hands and being removed from the Crowley estate (and before being offered for sale), almost all high-grade copies were driven down to Sarasota and slabbed by the collection’s purchaser.

 

As such, there seems to be a very high probability that any high-grade slabbed Fawcett Crowley Copy is as unread today as a newsstand copy – with no time machine required to transport you back to a Golden Age newsstand to purchase it. This seems to give the Crowley Copies a very elite status. Granted, the page quality isn’t as fresh as that of the newsstand copy. But PQ aside, do Crowley Copies represent the most pristine (= untouched/unread) GA books known to exist?

 

Mile Highs are the pinnacle.

 

Mile Highs are sloppy seconds compared to Crowleys, is I think what his point was. And he's probably right.

 

 

Blasphemy !!!

[lou_fine]

Compare this to the Fawcett Crowley Copies – they sat in stacks since coming off the presses and remained virtually untouched until the Crowley family decided to sell the collection approximately 6.5 years ago. And, due to a legal battle that raged for 5 of the years after the collection’s sale, the collection only recently (physically) changed hands.

 

So, based upon this timeline, there would appear to be two separate major releases of the Crowley Copies.

 

The first release would be the initial books that were placed into the marketplace by Fishler several years ago when the collection first came to light. The second would be this much more recent release of the Fawcett books.

 

Any idea if the Fawcett portion would be substantially higher grade than the initial release since the majority of the books from the original release were probably mostly around the VF condition range only? Not outstanding relative to other major pedigrees, but would be interesting if the Fawcett portion were significantly better in terms of grade.

 

Unfortunately or fortunately depending if you are a buyer or the seller, Fawcetts seems to be near the bottom end of the demand scale when it comes to the GA books.

[ciorac]

I cracked out one of my recent Crowley Copy purchases and read it. As I read it, a thought occurred to me – I might be the very first person to have ever read this particular copy!

 

I recognize that many Mile Highs (MHs) and Tom Reilly (TRs) books sat unread for years. Both the MHs and TRs, however, have been trading for approximately 30 – 35 years, and they surfaced 20 – 25 years before the slab. Compare this to the Fawcett Crowley Copies – they sat in stacks since coming off the presses and remained virtually untouched until the Crowley family decided to sell the collection approximately 6.5 years ago. And, due to a legal battle that raged for 5 of the years after the collection’s sale, the collection only recently (physically) changed hands. Finally, immediately after changing hands and being removed from the Crowley estate (and before being offered for sale), almost all high-grade copies were driven down to Sarasota and slabbed by the collection’s purchaser.

 

As such, there seems to be a very high probability that any high-grade slabbed Fawcett Crowley Copy is as unread today as a newsstand copy – with no time machine required to transport you back to a Golden Age newsstand to purchase it. This seems to give the Crowley Copies a very elite status. Granted, the page quality isn’t as fresh as that of the newsstand copy. But PQ aside, do Crowley Copies represent the most pristine (= untouched/unread) GA books known to exist?

 

Mile Highs are the pinnacle.

 

Mile Highs are sloppy seconds compared to Crowleys, is I think what his point was. And he's probably right.

 

 

Blasphemy !!!

 

you tell 'em Fuel!!!

[tth2]

Any idea if the Fawcett portion would be substantially higher grade than the initial release since the majority of the books from the original release were probably mostly around the VF condition range only? Not outstanding relative to other major pedigrees, but would be interesting if the Fawcett portion were significantly better in terms of grade.

Based upon all the Crowley Fawcetts that Heritage has been selling enmasse in recent months, I would say structurally they are at the high end, with lots of books in the 9.2-9.6 range. Given the sheer volume, I'm guessing they were not pressed before being submitted, so that is probably their "natural" grade, but these days who knows. The knock on them (so I've heard, as I don't own any) is that their freshness is not great and my review of their CGC'd PQs is they mostly seem to be in the OW range, with some C-OWs and some OW-Ws, with W pages being a real rarity.

 

Unfortunately or fortunately depending if you are a buyer or the seller, Fawcetts seems to be near the bottom end of the demand scale when it comes to the GA books.

The biggest problem for the Crowleys is that they're being released after Heritage had already spent the last year or so blowing out a lot of NM Fawcetts, many of them Church copies. The market is incredibly saturated.

[*paull*]

The Crowley collection is more than just Fawcetts.

[tth2]

I was just answering Lou's question about the Crowley Fawcetts.

[*paull*]

I'm not referring to you in particular... I think a lot of people think that the Crowley collection is only Fawcetts.

[batman_fan]

Any idea if the Fawcett portion would be substantially higher grade than the initial release since the majority of the books from the original release were probably mostly around the VF condition range only? Not outstanding relative to other major pedigrees, but would be interesting if the Fawcett portion were significantly better in terms of grade.

Based upon all the Crowley Fawcetts that Heritage has been selling enmasse in recent months, I would say structurally they are at the high end, with lots of books in the 9.2-9.6 range. Given the sheer volume, I'm guessing they were not pressed before being submitted, so that is probably their "natural" grade, but these days who knows. The knock on them (so I've heard, as I don't own any) is that their freshness is not great and my review of their CGC'd PQs is they mostly seem to be in the OW range, with some C-OWs and some OW-Ws, with W pages being a real rarity.

 

Unfortunately or fortunately depending if you are a buyer or the seller, Fawcetts seems to be near the bottom end of the demand scale when it comes to the GA books.

The biggest problem for the Crowleys is that they're being released after Heritage had already spent the last year or so blowing out a lot of NM Fawcetts, many of them Church copies. The market is incredibly saturated.

 

I own several Crowleys (All Batman's) and recently picked up a Captain Midnight in 9.2 OW/W. I will let you know once I crack it out what the pages really look like, but I can say, the structural quality is very nice and the copy I got has perfect centering. Pricewise, I paid not quite 1/2 guide for the book in 9.2 so I would say the prices are soft relative to the guide but I have always thought the guide was way too high on most Fawcetts. I have no regretts with my purchase since I have no intention of flipping it.

[lou_fine]

I was just answering Lou's question about the Crowley Fawcetts.

 

Tim;

 

And I certainly appreciate hearing your response to my question.

[tth2]

I own several Crowleys (All Batman's) and recently picked up a Captain Midnight in 9.2 OW/W. I will let you know once I crack it out what the pages really look like, but I can say, the structural quality is very nice and the copy I got has perfect centering. Pricewise, I paid not quite 1/2 guide for the book in 9.2 so I would say the prices are soft relative to the guide but I have always thought the guide was way too high on most Fawcetts. I have no regretts with my purchase since I have no intention of flipping it.

Definitely let us know what you think. I was tempted to pick up a 9.4 Crowley Capt Midnight in the last Heritage auction that had W pages, which is very unusual for a Crowley. I ended up not bidding, and it failed to meet reserve, which was less than the 9.2 Guide price. I agree that Guide is definitely too high on most of the Fawcetts.

[lou_fine]

I own several Crowleys (All Batman's) and recently picked up a Captain Midnight in 9.2 OW/W. I will let you know once I crack it out what the pages really look like, but I can say, the structural quality is very nice and the copy I got has perfect centering. Pricewise, I paid not quite 1/2 guide for the book in 9.2 so I would say the prices are soft relative to the guide but I have always thought the guide was way too high on most Fawcetts. I have no regretts with my purchase since I have no intention of flipping it.

 

Definitely let us know what you think. I was tempted to pick up a 9.4 Crowley Capt Midnight in the last Heritage auction that had W pages, which is very unusual for a Crowley. I ended up not bidding, and it failed to meet reserve, which was less than the 9.2 Guide price. I agree that Guide is definitely too high on most of the Fawcetts.

 

I assume we would be talking about the less-in-demand Fawcetts here with the bland covers.

 

Or were there also some of the more early Master Comics with the classic Raboy covers that were also going for discounts to guide?

 

Pedigree copies of Master Comics #22 or #27 for anybody out there at a discount to guide!

[bluechip]

I own several Crowleys Pricewise, I paid not quite 1/2 guide for the book i

 

 

1/2 guide Hey, I think paid guide or even a bit more for this...

 

 

But then, of course we know how the guide breaks out those highlighted issues in a series -- you now, the ones that everybody wants even if they only want that issue out of the whole series... goes something like this.

 

 

 

"Captain Marvel 65 (Mr Tawny gets a new hat) -- $400

"Captain Marvel 66 (Groundbreaking atomic war issue) -- $401

[shiverbones]

[Timely]

Mile Highs are the pinnacle.

 

I think you are missing the point of LearnedHand's comments.

 

I don't think he is missing the point. Most MH's are still unread even 30 years after they were found. Most MH's have always been too expensive to be reader copies. I owned numerous MH's that had the pages still stuck together from the printing process and were unread.

 

West