Brave and the Bold #28

[JLA_ALL_THE_WAY]

P.S.---tth2, rube 11, JLA all the way----do you have any undercopies for sale??

 

I'm in the process of making one final submission to CGC from my personal collection. Anything that would fall into your grade-range, I'll let you know. My cut-off point for post-#22 is 9.2 or better, so cross your fingers!!

 

Rick

[Foolkiller]

You'd basically have to buy a copy that was under graded by the dealer to save real money.

I'd say the chances of a B&B 28 being undergraded by a dealer would be less than zero.

 

Can't argue with that. I paid aggressively to get my copy and keep it raw... had to pay close to slabbed price.

[blazingbob]

Just like getting Tim to sell you a high grade DC that wasn't put into a Heritage auction

[adamstrange]

I remember reading that the CGC 8.0 was bought at $5500 or something like that, then it became a CGC 9.0 and sold for something like $17,0000

 

I think that was the copy that "reached its potential" between the time it was acquired and the time it was submitted. I don't think that's the type of scenario you were hoping for yourself.

[spookley]

Thanks Rick,

Let me know if you get CGC 9.0 (or even 8.5 if it has good eye appeal).

I just want to get the full set at a manageable price.

johnny

[spookley]

adamstrange,

In my humble opinion, if Lauterbach "pressed" the 8.0 to a 9.0---then sold it without disclosure to an unknowing collector----for a $12,000 profit----then that is just unethical and wrong

P.S.----I don't have a problem with pressing (or with restoration) as long as it is fully disclosed. This current pressing fiasco is no different than selling restored books as unrestored to make a nifty profit----IMHO

[tth2]

Just like getting Tim to sell you a high grade DC that wasn't put into a Heritage auction

Actually, I've received offers from quite a few individuals for specific books, and would be happy to do a private sale if the price was right. The prices just haven't been right.

 

I'd LOVE to do nothing but private sales and NOT pay Heritage's commissions.

[lou_fine]

adamstrange,

In my humble opinion, if Lauterbach "pressed" the 8.0 to a 9.0---then sold it without disclosure to an unknowing collector----for a $12,000 profit----then that is just unethical and wrong

P.S.----I don't have a problem with pressing (or with restoration) as long as it is fully disclosed. This current pressing fiasco is no different than selling restored books as unrestored to make a nifty profit----IMHO

 

Spooky;

 

Nothing new here as this practice has now been going on for awhile now.

 

If you are worried about Lauterbach, you should also be equally worry about Heritage, CLink, Pedigree, Nelson, etc.

 

Yes, pretty dangerous times to be buying books if you are concerned about undisclosed pressing or any of the other hard to detect work that CGC now considers to be unrestored.

[lou_fine]

Just like getting Tim to sell you a high grade DC that wasn't put into a Heritage auction

Actually, I've received offers from quite a few individuals for specific books, and would be happy to do a private sale if the price was right. The prices just haven't been right.

 

I'd LOVE to do nothing but private sales and NOT pay Heritage's commissions.

 

Tim;

 

I guess it really depends on what you mean by the right price.

 

Unfortunately for most prospective buyers, I guess even 10X guide is still not the right price.

 

Just wish I had some of your nice SA DC books sitting in my collection.

[spookley]

Geez

That pretty much knocks out half of the market....

And, I don't like buying on e-bay in fear of getting ripped off.

[lou_fine]

Geez

That pretty much knocks out half of the market....

And, I don't like buying on e-bay in fear of getting ripped off.

 

Well, you could try Metro!

 

As somebody stated in the GA forum, they are the 800 lb gorilla in this industry.

 

Heritage, on the other hand, is just the 800 lb pressing machine in this industry!

[tth2]

Well, you could try Metro!

 

As somebody stated in the GA forum, they are the 800 lb gorilla in this industry.

 

Heritage, on the other hand, is just the 800 lb pressing machine in this industry!

[Rocketeer]

Just like getting Tim to sell you a high grade DC that wasn't put into a Heritage auction

Actually, I've received offers from quite a few individuals for specific books, and would be happy to do a private sale if the price was right. The prices just haven't been right.

 

I'd LOVE to do nothing but private sales and NOT pay Heritage's commissions.

 

...I'd be happy to save you from Heritage's commission Tim,...

[tth2]

Just like getting Tim to sell you a high grade DC that wasn't put into a Heritage auction

Actually, I've received offers from quite a few individuals for specific books, and would be happy to do a private sale if the price was right. The prices just haven't been right.

 

I'd LOVE to do nothing but private sales and NOT pay Heritage's commissions.

 

...I'd be happy to save you from Heritage's commission Tim,...

The store is open... come in and make an offer.

[blazingbob]

Well, obviously you haven't been reading all those threads about "FAIR" prices Tim!

 

If you just knew what FAIR was you wouldn't have a problem selling those books. . Doesn't matter what it took you to find and buy those books, just so long as you price them "FAIRLY".

[Foolkiller]

Well, obviously you haven't been reading all those threads about "FAIR" prices Tim!

 

If you just knew what FAIR was you wouldn't have a problem selling those books. . Doesn't matter what it took you to find and buy those books, just so long as you price them "FAIRLY".

 

"Fair" can be determined Bob. How long it took to buy and find books is a relevant inquiry so long as there is still some connection to reality (as in the way the rest of the market seems to be going).

 

At any rate, my complaint isn't with the pricing per se -- it's with the dealers I heard creating excuses as to why the show wasn't good -- and never once mentioning, hey, maybe our prices are too high when there's other guys still selling stacks of silver/bronze age.

[blazingbob]

FAIR is not easily determined. FAIR is determined by the person standing in front of the seller.

 

FAIR could be Overstreet price guide

 

FAIR could be a multiple of guide depending on the book you are holding

 

FAIR could be your interpretation of GPAnalysis sales, Average sale versus last sale. I've noticed some new games being played with GPA numbers. GPA trends, moving average, god forbid somebody dumps a book and changes the "FAIR" price a book should sell at.

 

FAIR could be the dealers database of recorded sales.

 

FAIR could be the last time it sold on Ebay which the buyer preaches as gospel to you the seller as if I spend all my time tracking Ebay sales and saw the book they are referring to.

 

FAIR could be the last auction sale of that item. Which auction sale I need to ask since the last time I checked there were multiple auction houses.

 

FAIR could be the FMV price CGC quotes you when they attempt to bump a book up from a invoice you've submitted. You ask them where they pulled this value from and a grader starts quoting you prices it sold for. Amazing that graders know more about what a book is worth than I do!

 

FAIR could be highly dependent on what part of the country you do most of your buying in. Would Starbucks coffee prices in New York be considered "FAIR" since they are different depending on what part of the country you are in? How about Gas? Could it be that maybe my prices are higher because I live in a high tax area and my cost of doing business is higher? Nope that's never discussed because everyone feels it's just a hobby. Heaven forbid somebody run their business as a business.

 

FAIR is also highly dependent on how people pay you. Factor in electronic payments which constitute over 30-40% of my transactions, the need to discount and expenses and I'm left wondering how "FAIR" is "FAIR".

 

You want "FAIR" prices yet the only way for us to drive down costs is pay less for the collections. Then we are ripped for not paying enough.

 

Lastly, "FAIR" doesn't necessarily have to be you have an immediate profit in a book you buy which somehow I think is the issue of the day. Seeing the selling activity on these boards makes me question how many "collectors" are really out there.

[Foolkiller]

I agree with what you are saying to some extent, but comic book prices are not regional like Starbucks -- because in the case of comics, or plasma televisions or other products easily shippable, the cost is not as easy to simply regionalize and justify higher cost, like say, food, gas etc., which are consumed directly and immediately.

 

Comic books are available easily on the internet and there many outlets for the customer to choose from.

 

Why do you say few collectors anymore? Simply because the collector doesn't want to pay an incredibly inflated price?

 

My problem is that I heard a lot of kavetching about the show from some of the dealers who didn't have a good one: they didn't allow enough people through the door, why did they cut off ticket sales, the lay out of the floor wasn't good etc., etc. --

 

So how is it that some dealers had spectacular shows (albeit perhaps with lower expectations, but still strong sales) and had no complaints, yet other dealers were struggling to meet what they thought would be a "good" show. Or "not as good as last year"? Of course it wasn't as good as last year -- it was the perfect storm, tons of hungry customers and fewer dealers!

 

Muddling the definition of "fair" to suit the idea that multiple things "might" constitute a fair transaction or price doesn't fly to me. First of all, GPA, ebay, and a dealer's record of sales data and examination of price trends all factor into the definition of fair. When you are double the price of any outlet that I can think of, whether that's comiclink, pedigree, ebay or most major dealer websites in pricing, then it becomes hard to justify. I saw that in many instances. Whether it was through inflated prices or overgrading -- I wouldn't call it the norm, but certainly not rare.

 

When I sell books, dealers quote me GPA all the freakin' time -- I've had this up and down the line. In fact, when I sold books to Metro a little while back, the GPA price was higher than they wanted to pay, but it was a give and take -- they priced higher on some books than GPA, lower or about the same on others. Still, that was used as a barometer for pricing as well as their own data. That's fair to me. If a seller doesn't want to listen or doesn't care about the rest of the market, price how you like, but criticism is then fair and warranted for the pricing.

 

You want to use real life "business" examples? How about the fact that if WalMart starts pricing widgets way out of line with what everyone else is charging for them, WalMart won't sell any widgets and people will *spoon* up and down the line that their prices are too high -- why are comic dealers any less subject to criticism?

 

Finally, I think a lot of the seller activity on the board isn't always buying a book to make a "profit" per se, but rather simply to sell books to move into other books. I've sold many books at a loss (which I would never do if I was running a business) in order to immediately fund other books I would rather have -- why? Because I'd rather take that loss and fund with old comic money rather than put new money into a book. Are there times I "win" and make a profit? Sure. But most of the time, I am looking to move some of the comic money around to buy new books -- particularly in the case of selling off Marvels in favor of DCs. I made some and lost some -- either way, I bought up a bunch of DCs, and then put a smaller percentage of my money in...

[blazingbob]

Your WalMart example of Widgets assumes that all Comics are the same.

 

If you state that I saw a CGC GS X-Men #1 9.6 at 5 tables that had offwhite pages with prices ranging from $2000 - $4000 I would agree with your statement. Somebody is out of touch. And does that price range assume every dealer is non-negotiable? I still get the feeling that when people complain about my prices they think my prices are cast in concrete.

 

But if you are saying that raw comics are in the "Same grade" were priced all over the map I'd have to say let's see them all and agree that they are in the same grade before we look at the "Fair pricing model".

 

From my side of the table I've seen some of those "Fairly priced" books. Some are absolutely great buys. Some books shown to me make me look at the grade and price and go "hmmmm" (What about that crease or other defect I say to myself). Maybe they are not seeing the book the same way I am. Do I point out the defect I see and make the person feel bad or do I just be silent and smile and say "Nice buy".

[Foolkiller]

Your WalMart example of Widgets assumes that all Comics are the same.

 

If you state that I saw a CGC GS X-Men #1 9.6 at 5 tables that had offwhite pages with prices ranging from $2000 - $4000 I would agree with your statement. Somebody is out of touch. And does that price range assume every dealer is non-negotiable? I still get the feeling that when people complain about my prices they think my prices are cast in concrete.

 

But if you are saying that raw comics are in the "Same grade" were priced all over the map I'd have to say let's see them all and agree that they are in the same grade before we look at the "Fair pricing model".

 

From my side of the table I've seen some of those "Fairly priced" books. Some are absolutely great buys. Some books shown to me make me look at the grade and price and go "hmmmm" (What about that crease or other defect I say to myself). Maybe they are not seeing the book the same way I am. Do I point out the defect I see and make the person feel bad or do I just be silent and smile and say "Nice buy".

 

I don't have time to respond to everything, but I will say that obviously since we have a history I know you are negotiable on your prices, especially when you are presented with at least some data. Since Motor City was the example I was using, they are much, much more difficult to negotiate with, as is, at times, Harley. Even when you have data... I am not complaining about the prices Motor City puts on their books, I'm complaining about them complaining the show wasn't good and not factoring in the fact that maybe their prices are just out of touch. Especially since they groused in Florida too. Reason Harley didn't get singled out? He wasn't complaining. But there were other dealers who I saw very few people at their booths through the three days I was there.

 

By the way, if you see a book I buy -- and see a defect I didn't see -- I'd rather have you point it out -- don't just smile and say nice buy.