Pressing: Much ado about nothing?

[drice6900]

I find this poll IF DISCLOSED, WOULD YOU PURCHASED A PRESSED BOOK? very interesting (kudos to djpinkpanther67 for posting it, by the way).

 

As of 2/17/07: If freely & properly disclosed, would you be willing to purchase a book that has been pressed ?

 

Users may choose only one (57 total votes)

 

Yes 38 67%

No 5 9%

It depends on the book 14 25%

 

Now I understand that one of the biggest problems people have is with pressing being undisclosed, but I really thought that considering the huffing & puffing and posturing going on here, that the majority wouldn't go near a known, pressed book.

 

 

(Apologies for starting another pressing thread, btw)

[mar-vell]

probably all high grade collectors at some point have entertained the disturbing thought "Has my super high grade comic book been trimmed?" that unpleasant thought is something none of us enjoy and i think the ? about pressing brings back this feeling to some degree! It's funny how it works because if I had a super high grade copy FF #10 and didn't kow it was trimmed I would enjoy it immensely! The second i doubted it or lnew otherwise the flame of my victory is dampened!

[Mr. Zipper]

I don't think this has ever been the issue. Most people will buy pressed books if disclosed (and thus let the market decide what to price pressed books.)

 

The question should have been, "If disclosed, would you pay as much for a pressed book as an unmanipulated counterpart?"

[G.A.tor]

hello all...

I like pressing to return a comic to a pre "damaged" condition...this can occur without the addition (restoration) of any work...I define restoration as a quantitative measurement, versus presssing (qualitative)...in other words, if something is added to a comic book (cleaning solvents, paper, support, color touch, etc), I generally consider that restoration...if nothing is added, but a book is improved in the quality of appearance (mainly pressing) then I have no problem with that versus a book that was not pressed (they both hit the finish line looking the same, irregardless of what track they took to get to the finish line)...I think we all "realize" (whether we accept it or not) that most of the Church books were preserved in their state due to "pressure" of all those wonderful books stacked on top of each other (techinically, that is "pressing", albeit it likely unintentional on

church's part)...defacing (trimming, etc) of a book is not really restoration to me, but more like destruction...

rick

[Sid]

I don't think this has ever been the issue. Most people will buy pressed books if disclosed (and thus let the market decide what to price pressed books.)

 

The question should have been, "If disclosed, would you pay as much for a pressed book as an unmanipulated counterpart?"

 

Yer, the real argument isn't wether you'd actually buy the book disclosed if it's been pressed or not but will you buy it for the same price as you'd an unpressed book.

[shadroch]

Thats my whole thing with pressing.I won't pay the same for a pressed version if it is disclosed,so would feel ripped off buying a book that had undisclosed pressing.

[valiantman]

I don't think this has ever been the issue. Most people will buy pressed books if disclosed (and thus let the market decide what to price pressed books.)

 

The question should have been, "If disclosed, would you pay as much for a pressed book as an unmanipulated counterpart?"

 

 

Agreed. Would I buy? Yes. Would I pay as much? No.

[Red Hook]

...and it would make a big difference to me as to who did the pressing. If a pressed book came with a certificate of restoration signed by Matt Nelson or Susan Cicconi, guaranteeing their work, and accompanying a slabbed book, wouldn't that be grand?

[mar-vell]

...and it would make a big difference to me as to who did the pressing. If a pressed book came with a certificate of restoration signed by Matt Nelson or Susan Cicconi, guaranteeing their work, and accompanying a slabbed book, wouldn't that be grand ?

 

it could be a grand - depends if the book sells for about $1500 unpressed!

[trevorlsmith]

...and it would make a big difference to me as to who did the pressing. If a pressed book came with a certificate of restoration signed by Matt Nelson or Susan Cicconi, guaranteeing their work, and accompanying a slabbed book, wouldn't that be grand?

 

Guaranteeing what exactly? That it won't revert to it's pre-press state?

[Red Hook]

That would be one thing..... why not?

[lou_fine]

hello all...

I like pressing to return a comic to a pre "damaged" condition...this can occur without the addition (restoration) of any work...I define restoration as a quantitative measurement, versus presssing (qualitative)...in other words, if something is added to a comic book (cleaning solvents, paper, support, color touch, etc), I generally consider that restoration...if nothing is added, but a book is improved in the quality of appearance (mainly pressing) then I have no problem with that versus a book that was not pressed (they both hit the finish line looking the same, irregardless of what track they took to get to the finish line)...I think we all "realize" (whether we accept it or not) that most of the Church books were preserved in their state due to "pressure" of all those wonderful books stacked on top of each other (techinically, that is "pressing", albeit it likely unintentional on

church's part)...defacing (trimming, etc) of a book is not really restoration to me, but more like destruction...

rick

 

'Tec27Kid;

 

I guess we must be back to the same old argument.

 

If artifical intentional pressing is similar to Edgar Church pressing, than shouldn't you really view micro-trimming as being similar to factory trimming.

 

Really nothing wrong with both processes since trimming and pressing is just a part of the normal production and storage process of a book. Especially when you really can't tell when artificial pressing or micro trimming has been done on a book unless you have before and after scans.

 

Is this really your view of the world as there's no real harm since they all hit the finish line looking the same.

[FFB]

That would be one thing..... why not?

Well, for starters, how would the person giving the guarantee know whether the book "reverted" or was "redamaged"? If humidity warping were pressed out and the book was then placed back into a too-humid environment, how would the person giving the guarantee know whether it was reversion from the press job or damage caused by a clueless owner?

[jbud73]

hello all...

I like pressing to return a comic to a pre "damaged" condition...this can occur without the addition (restoration) of any work...I define restoration as a quantitative measurement, versus presssing (qualitative)...in other words, if something is added to a comic book (cleaning solvents, paper, support, color touch, etc), I generally consider that restoration...if nothing is added, but a book is improved in the quality of appearance (mainly pressing) then I have no problem with that versus a book that was not pressed (they both hit the finish line looking the same, irregardless of what track they took to get to the finish line)...I think we all "realize" (whether we accept it or not) that most of the Church books were preserved in their state due to "pressure" of all those wonderful books stacked on top of each other (techinically, that is "pressing", albeit it likely unintentional on

church's part)...defacing (trimming, etc) of a book is not really restoration to me, but more like destruction...

rick

 

He didn't just use the Church books where pressed argument to support his hypothesis did he? Please tell me it isn't so

 

As I've often said - I understand pressing and I just want it disclosed so I can make an informed decision like I would about any other procedure that alters a product I'm about to purchase.

[Red Hook]

That would be one thing..... why not?

Well, for starters, how would the person giving the guarantee know whether the book "reverted" or was "redamaged"? If humidity warping were pressed out and the book was then placed back into a too-humid environment, how would the person giving the guarantee know whether it was reversion from the press job or damage caused by a clueless owner?

 

Well, if I knew that Matt Nelson or Susan Cicconi had done the original work on it, with documentation, then I would have to assume that any later damage had been caused by a clueless owner.

 

But I was thinking more along the line of slabbed pressjobs.

[FFB]

That would be one thing..... why not?

Well, for starters, how would the person giving the guarantee know whether the book "reverted" or was "redamaged"? If humidity warping were pressed out and the book was then placed back into a too-humid environment, how would the person giving the guarantee know whether it was reversion from the press job or damage caused by a clueless owner?

 

Well, if I knew that Matt Nelson or Susan Cicconi had done the original work on it, with documentation, then I would have to assume that any later damage had been caused by a clueless owner.

 

So then are you saying you don't need a guarantee from those two? (Really only Matt, since Susan doesn't "just press" anymore.)

 

But I was thinking more along the line of slabbed pressjobs.

 

Have you ever seen the way the inner well warps sometimes on some slabs? I'll bet that in a humid environment, you could wind up with some resultant warpage inside the slab.

[jbud73]

 

But I was thinking more along the line of slabbed pressjobs.

 

Have you ever seen the way the inner well warps sometimes on some slabs? I'll bet that in a humid environment, you could wind up with some resultant warpage inside the slab.

 

Which is why, along with Shaken Comic Syndrome I crack all my Pedigree books. Just on sheer priciple alone I cringe at the thought of something that was supposed to protect actually marring a book that has bucked the odds and survived as a pristine example of the artform.

[G.A.tor]

 

'Tec27Kid;

 

I guess we must be back to the same old argument.

 

If artifical intentional pressing is similar to Edgar Church pressing, than shouldn't you really view micro-trimming as being similar to factory trimming.

 

Really nothing wrong with both processes since trimming and pressing is just a part of the normal production and storage process of a book. Especially when you really can't tell when artificial pressing or micro trimming has been done on a book unless you have before and after scans.

 

Is this really your view of the world as there's no real harm since they all hit the finish line looking the same.

hello all...

naturally, these are just my personal viewpoints, but I collect books for me, and I like them to look as nice as possible...

pressing and trimming are 2 different subjects...factory versus secondary applications are 2 different subjects....so.....

if a book is intentionally or unintentionally "pressed" , it is still pressed (end result, post production reference)...if you are asking me if I would differ between a batman 30 that is in 8.0 condition naturally (at one point, it was theoretically higher, when first produced), and one that was a 6.5 and then pressed to an 8.0, to me, they are both the same visually (all else being the same:registration, page quality, etc)....with or without disclosure ( and I fully support disclosure, since not all folks have the same viewpoint as I), it appears to be a 8.0 with nothing added to the book, then I would value/pay the same for them....I fully respect other folks that wouldn't want to pay the same for a pressed versus natural book...absolutely their right...

 

Now, I don't believe a book should be trimmed/micro trimmed, as that changes the "quantity" of the book...if it is trimmed at the factory, that is just part of the production process (right?)....post release/post factory trimming is just that, trimming (with or without comparission scans, it should be disclosed if there is knowledge of it)...so something tangible has been removed from the book (paper, even microscopic amounts, not intended by the manufacturer)...to me, that equates a huge negative to me, and I don't/won't buy a trimmed book....again, that is just me....

I think this is a great subject for debate, and I appreciate and learn from everyone's viewpoints!

rick

[Red Hook]

Have you ever seen the way the inner well warps sometimes on some slabs? I'll bet that in a humid environment, you could wind up with some resultant warpage inside the slab.

 

Actually, I haven't. Would love to see samples if you got 'em.

 

Now here's my point. I don't think the pressing disclosure debate is going away anytime soon. Regardless of what side anyone is on.

 

So, instead of arguing about it endlessly and both sides just getting each other teed off over and over again (speaking in general terms), I'm more interested in approaches to the problem that will serve the hobby best. And I refer to the general goodwill felt by both new and older collectors, and also dealers who want to be able to make a living, make a profit and (if they're smart) build relationships with their customer base based on trust.

 

So, say Matt Nelson does a press job on say, uh....a Green River Fantastic Four #25. Whatever. Say he puts it up for sale in slab, with a guarantee that should the book revert or warp (in slab) he will take it back and correct the reversion.

 

If Matt is as good as he is generally believed to be, and his claims that pressing jobs don't revert if done properly, then what he's gotten is a TREMENDOUS bonanza of positive pr....at very little cost to himself. He can easily qualify his guarantee to exclude cases where he believes other factors have contributed to the damage to a book, but in all likelihood, he will NEVER have a book returned to him....again, if what he believes about pressing is true.

 

He can always reject a book that he feels has been stored improperly.....or he could just decide that very occasionally, he may need to repress a book that reverted EVEN IF IT WASN'T HIS FAULT.....something that probably wouldn't take him much time at all.....and would just be the very small cost of that PR Bonanza.

 

What this revolutionary approach would do is inject some badly-needed consumer confidence back into the hobby, build some trust....and defuse a good portion of the debate. And not only add to his marketing himself as a Brand Name when it comes to professional restoration.

 

Now I'm sure someone can pick this apart and find a few flaws, but the bottom line is that I'm waiting to see if someone has not only the smarts to admit they press books (as Matt advertises), but also the vision to say which books they press. This would be important to someone like Matt because he is a dealer also.

 

Another example. Say dealer X buys slabbed books, cracks them out and has them pressed for upgrades. It would make a big difference to me whether X sent them to Matt for pressing, or did a semi-professional job of pressing them in his basement, to save a few sheckles. Big difference.

 

Just some thoughts.

[FFB]

Have you ever seen the way the inner well warps sometimes on some slabs? I'll bet that in a humid environment, you could wind up with some resultant warpage inside the slab.

 

Actually, I haven't. Would love to see samples if you got 'em.

 

Now here's my point. I don't think the pressing disclosure debate is going away anytime soon. Regardless of what side anyone is on.

 

So, instead of arguing about it endlessly and both sides just getting each other teed off over and over again (speaking in general terms), I'm more interested in approaches to the problem that will serve the hobby best. And I refer to the general goodwill felt by both new and older collectors, and also dealers who want to be able to make a living, make a profit and (if they're smart) build relationships with their customer base based on trust.

 

So, say Matt Nelson does a press job on say, uh....a Green River Fantastic Four #25. Whatever. Say he puts it up for sale in slab, with a guarantee that should the book revert or warp (in slab) he will take it back and correct the reversion.

 

How will anyone know if a press job has reverted if it is in the slab? Most pressable defects aren't visible if the book is in a slab. Edge bends are about the only pressable defect that is visible if a book is in a slab (other than really bad wrinkling/warping, but most high grade pressed books didn't have that to begin with).

 

If Matt is as good as he is generally believed to be, and his claims that pressing jobs don't revert if done properly, then what he's gotten is a TREMENDOUS bonanza of positive pr....at very little cost to himself. He can easily qualify his guarantee to exclude cases where he believes other factors have contributed to the damage to a book, but in all likelihood, he will NEVER have a book returned to him....again, if what he believes about pressing is true.

 

He can always reject a book that he feels has been stored improperly.....or he could just decide that very occasionally, he may need to repress a book that reverted EVEN IF IT WASN'T HIS FAULT.....something that probably wouldn't take him much time at all.....and would just be the very small cost of that PR Bonanza.

 

What this revolutionary approach would do is inject some badly-needed consumer confidence back into the hobby, build some trust....and defuse a good portion of the debate. And not only add to his marketing himself as a Brand Name when it comes to professional restoration.

 

I think you are operating under the mistaken impression that Matt Nelson cares whether the CGC board debate defuses or not. His business is doing fine despite the complaints of a handful of people on here. The "debate," as you call it, just brings him more attention from those who might want to use his services once they learn about them. It's nothing but constant, free advertising, to the point where Matt Nelson is now the "Coca-Cola" of the pressing business -- the most recognized brand name by far. There's the real irony.