9.8's ( What goes up, must come down )

[Dad&Son-migration]

I just wanted to comment on the crazy phenomena that I'm seeing in the market place with elitists buying 9.8 books of very common, and most often, modern books. Albeit, maybe not common in continuous high grade. But I'd guarantee there isn't a person here that could 100% grade a 9.4 from a 9.8 each and everytime. If you want a good indication of the subjective grading you don't have to look any further then Nik's grading contest.

 

I look at books such as Ghost Rider #1, Amazing Spider-man #300 in 9.8 going for insane prices. I bought my Amazing Spider-man #300 in 1988 for cover price and it now stands at a 9.2. I bet if I resubmitted the book, it would get a 9.6. I think a 9.8 is catching the grader on a good day and could've just as easily been given a 9.6. What I'm seeing is people also trying to dump Ghost Rider books now that the movie hype swept thru and people snapped out of the ridiculous dream and realize " holy krap... I own Ghost Rider" He sucked in the 70's and Nick Cage has helped to make him suck again in the 21st century. So people with ASM #300, shake a leg and get sellin' now

 

The other book I saw on Pedigree's site was the ASM #121 in 9.8 with a current bid of $3,300 I just bought my copy raw in about 6.5-7.0 for $40.00 CDN and you know what.. it has white pages and incredible eye appeal. If you're going to drop that much cash on something... it better be one of a kind. Not a subjective one of a kind where a company decides a grade, but it should be original art because there is only so much the market will take with these crazy prices and it'll come crashing in again.

 

To each collector, their own. I guess I'm just happy having a "raw" book with fantastic eye appeal instead of an over inflated, label graded hyped book. This really should be a buyer dictated market as it's just "wants" and not "needs" but until people stop banking on a grade and get back to good ol' fashioned personal opinion on a book the prices will accelerate until they hit a brick wall and we find many collectors sitting around on the nicest prettiest, flattest paper around.

[THE_BEYONDER]

[batman_fan]

I actually look at the prices being realized on some of this stuff and think "better dig through the boxes so I can send some stuff off to CGC to sell". I am truly shocked at some of the prices. I am also amazed at how bad the eye appeal of some of the stuff that goes for crazy prices just because of the label. I also agree, to each their own, but man it is time to hop on this gravy train.

[heinlein99]

Yeah, the dumping of the Ghost Riders has begun.

 

And in a few months it'll be Iron Man.

 

And after that, Iron Fist...

[Dad&Son-migration]

I actually look at the prices being realized on some of this stuff and think "better dig through the boxes so I can send some stuff off to CGC to sell". I am truly shocked at some of the prices. I am also amazed at how bad the eye appeal of some of the stuff that goes for crazy prices just because of the label. I also agree, to each their own, but man it is time to hop on this gravy train.

 

I fully agree.. the term " A sucker born every minute" pops into mind and I'd be happy submitting moderns for $12/piece to only flip them later for 10-30 times that amount. I'm sitting on 4,000 to 5,000 books I originally bought in the 70's and 80's that could easily achieve the 9.8 status on many of the them. Krap.. if I pressed them I'm sure a few would squeeze a 10.0 since the issues only show tiny, invisible spin dings that come out rather easily.... that concerns me ...the "pressing issue" I have no problem with it.. but c'mon people... do you really honestly believe books that have sat around for 35 to 40 years or longer will achieve 9.8 without a good squeezing.

[drbanner]

A couple quick points...the market is really hot now for bronze age stuff, look at Ron's Batmans, that Avengers 95(?) in 8.5 that sold for $250+, etc.,. However, compared to the massive price appreciation the CGC books experienced in the 1st few years (2000-2002), this recent surge is relatively tame!

 

The certified comic hobby has followed the lead of the card/coin hobby when it comes to the widening of spreads between low, mid, and high grade books. 1:100 spreads would have sounded insane 10 years ago, but not anymore. And really, for most post-1965 books, anything below 9.0 is common and can be found at just about any show...NM and better books are tough to find and should command a premium. Collectors of any type of collectible have always been willing to pay double, triple for an incrementally higher graded copy...even if that difference is miniscule to the average collector (1 spine stress vs. 2, etc.,.).

 

You can say it's not worth the price as CGC's grading standards vary from book to book, but the variability is certainly much less than it used to be when comparing "same grade" books between 2 dealers, or even within the stock of a single dealer. If there was no difference between a 9.8 and a 9.6, between a 9.6 and a 9.4, between a 9.4 and a 9.2, etc.,. then there would be no difference between a 9.8 and a 9.2, right? 9 times out of 10 the CGC higher graded copy is going to actually appear to be in higher grade (after considering that eye appeal, centering, etc.,. are not factored into CGC's grading).

[TonyStarkFan]

Yeah, the dumping of the Ghost Riders has begun.

 

And in a few months it'll be Iron Man.

 

And after that, Iron Fist...

 

DeeDee and I were just talking about this very topic recently. I am still trying to complete my Iron Man run and need around 40 more books to do it. The early issues are going for insane prices right now because of the movie hype. I could try to finish it this year and shell out a ton of money or I could wait about a month after the movie comes out and buy books for cheap. It's ridiculous to see what some of these books go for now.

[rodan57]

Yeah, the dumping of the Ghost Riders has begun.

 

And in a few months it'll be Iron Man.

 

And after that, Iron Fist...

 

DeeDee and I were just talking about this very topic recently. I am still trying to complete my Iron Man run and need around 40 more books to do it. The early issues are going for insane prices right now because of the movie hype. I could try to finish it this year and shell out a ton of money or I could wait about a month after the movie comes out and buy books for cheap. It's ridiculous to see what some of these books go for now.

 

So will they return to pre-hype prices or remain somewhat inflated? The Hulk wasn't a very well-received movie. Did prices for Hulk comics rise and fall?

 

Dennis

[Pirate]

A couple quick points...the market is really hot now for bronze age stuff, look at Ron's Batmans, that Avengers 95(?) in 8.5 that sold for $250+, etc.,. However, compared to the massive price appreciation the CGC books experienced in the 1st few years (2000-2002), this recent surge is relatively tame!

 

The certified comic hobby has followed the lead of the card/coin hobby when it comes to the widening of spreads between low, mid, and high grade books. 1:100 spreads would have sounded insane 10 years ago, but not anymore. And really, for most post-1965 books, anything below 9.0 is common and can be found at just about any show...NM and better books are tough to find and should command a premium. Collectors of any type of collectible have always been willing to pay double, triple for an incrementally higher graded copy...even if that difference is miniscule to the average collector (1 spine stress vs. 2, etc.,.).

 

You can say it's not worth the price as CGC's grading standards vary from book to book, but the variability is certainly much less than it used to be when comparing "same grade" books between 2 dealers, or even within the stock of a single dealer. If there was no difference between a 9.8 and a 9.6, between a 9.6 and a 9.4, between a 9.4 and a 9.2, etc.,. then there would be no difference between a 9.8 and a 9.2, right? 9 times out of 10 the CGC higher graded copy is going to actually appear to be in higher grade (after considering that eye appeal, centering, etc.,. not addressed as much in CGC grading).

 

well said

[nascar]

when pressing a book what is your alls proccess

[THE_BEYONDER]

No it wasn't

[worldsbestcomics]

A couple quick points...the market is really hot now for bronze age stuff, look at Ron's Batmans, that Avengers 95(?) in 8.5 that sold for $250+, etc.,. However, compared to the massive price appreciation the CGC books experienced in the 1st few years (2000-2002), this recent surge is relatively tame!

 

The certified comic hobby has followed the lead of the card/coin hobby when it comes to the widening of spreads between low, mid, and high grade books. 1:100 spreads would have sounded insane 10 years ago, but not anymore. And really, for most post-1965 books, anything below 9.0 is common and can be found at just about any show...NM and better books are tough to find and should command a premium. Collectors of any type of collectible have always been willing to pay double, triple for an incrementally higher graded copy...even if that difference is miniscule to the average collector (1 spine stress vs. 2, etc.,.).

 

You can say it's not worth the price as CGC's grading standards vary from book to book, but the variability is certainly much less than it used to be when comparing "same grade" books between 2 dealers, or even within the stock of a single dealer. If there was no difference between a 9.8 and a 9.6, between a 9.6 and a 9.4, between a 9.4 and a 9.2, etc.,. then there would be no difference between a 9.8 and a 9.2, right? 9 times out of 10 the CGC higher graded copy is going to actually appear to be in higher grade (after considering that eye appeal, centering, etc.,. are not factored into CGC's grading).

 

Nicely put. Different strokes for different folks. I buy 9.8 comics. I'm not an elitist or a sucker. I just have different tastes in my collecting and a different opinion about the future of top-grade books.

[tth2]

But I'd guarantee there isn't a person here that could 100% grade a 9.4 from a 9.8 each and everytime. If you want a good indication of the subjective grading you don't have to look any further then Nik's grading contest.

100% is a bit extreme anytime human subjectivity is involved, but I would be happy to take up this bet if you said something like 97-98%, if I could examine the books in person. I bet CGC's graders would get it right 99% of the time too if they were asked to regrade books broken out of the slabs (assuming no subsequent slab damage, of course). Hell Dad, your good buddy Doug is the king of tellling a 9.8 from a 9.6!

 

I continue to be astounded by how people think they can judge CGC's grading ability based on scans, no matter how high-resolution, particularly of scans through a CGC slab. Even without the problems disguised by a scan, there is such a world of difference between looking at a "naked" raw book in your hands and looking at that same book in a slab or in a mylar.

 

I bought my Amazing Spider-man #300 in 1988 for cover price and it now stands at a 9.2. I bet if I resubmitted the book, it would get a 9.6.

If you're saying that your book is currently slabbed already as a 9.2, and you think that if you resubbed it you'd get at least a 9.6 (absent any artificial improvement), then I say put your money where your mouth is. In fact, I'm happy to put my money where MY mouth is and I will offer to pay your slabbing fees for 10 separate resubs of that book. If you get a 9.6 back (again, absent any artificial improvement), you've gotten a "free" 9.6 on me. If it fails to come back as a 9.6 or better, you owe me my slabbing fees back, plus I get the #300 (in whatever grade it comes back on the 10th resub). Deal?

 

I think a 9.8 is catching the grader on a good day and could've just as easily been given a 9.6.

I don't disagree with this. I would be the first to admit that the distinction between 9.6 and 9.8 is tough and in my opinion sometimes arbitrary.

 

What I'm seeing is people also trying to dump Ghost Rider books now that the movie hype swept thru and people snapped out of the ridiculous dream and realize " holy krap... I own Ghost Rider" He sucked in the 70's and Nick Cage has helped to make him suck again in the 21st century. So people with ASM #300, shake a leg and get sellin' now

Seems like you're lumping all your different issues with our hobby together. Speculation on "hot" books is something that has happened forever in this hobby, and has nothing to do with multiples paid for 9.8s and 9.6s per se. Did you have a bad day today or lose on an auction or something?

[agro23]

I used to be upset about speculation and high grades pulling away from low, but you know what? This just means lower grade books are harder to move and therefore easier for me to get, own, read and cherish. (same with restored PLOD books versus Blue)

 

You guys go do your 9-point-whatever buying and I'll snap up the dross you won't touch. Everyone wins!

 

[Sid]

I used to be upset about speculation and high grades pulling away from low, but you know what? This just means lower grade books are harder to move and therefore easier for me to get, own, read and cherish. (same with restored PLOD books versus Blue)

 

You guys go do your 9-point-whatever buying and I'll snap up the dross you won't touch. Everyone wins!

 

 

 

This issue used to irritate me, but then I discovered everyone has different tastes/ Why do some of the GA collectors collect GA? The thrill of the chase is the best part of it for them. And I follow same reasoning for a lot of 9.8 collectors. Personally, if I had a choice in a book I really wanted between a $100 9.2 and $20 2.0, most likely I'll go for the 2.0 it's owning the book for me then how it looks because if it interests me the 9.2 isn't staying a 9.2 for very long.

[jediknight]

I agree with your premise that lots of the 9.8 are insanely overpriced but really now. You've got to be blinder than a bat not to see the difference between a 9.4 and a 9.8. The amateur cannot see this but the comic expert can and the difference is huge like the difference between a massive floppy pair of saggies and a regularly blessed babe. I suggest that you humble yourself and sit down and let one of the cgc pregraders school you in the fundamentals of comic grading. I know you will probably fire back how you are this and that and how you collected comics when they were 12 cents, etc. If you rant from this angle then you've already lost and will never learn the difference between a NM comic and a NM/M.

[Dad&Son-migration]

If you're saying that your book is currently slabbed already as a 9.2, and you think that if you resubbed it you'd get at least a 9.6 (absent any artificial improvement), then I say put your money where your mouth is. In fact, I'm happy to put my money where MY mouth is and I will offer to pay your slabbing fees for 10 separate resubs of that book. If you get a 9.6 back (again, absent any artificial improvement), you've gotten a "free" 9.6 on me. If it fails to come back as a 9.6 or better, you owe me my slabbing fees back, plus I get the #300 (in whatever grade it comes back on the 10th resub). Deal?

 

I appreciate the offer Tim, I thought long and hard about it but I'll save you the money. That's mighty generous though

 

 

Seems like you're lumping all your different issues with our hobby together. Speculation on "hot" books is something that has happened forever in this hobby, and has nothing to do with multiples paid for 9.8s and 9.6s per se. Did you have a bad day today or lose on an auction or something?

 

A 9.8 of Ghost Rider sold for over $6,400.00 ...you're saying that has nothing to do with speculation. Ohh... I'm fighting a cold... didn't lose an auction or something.

[Harvey Dude]

.. but c'mon people... do you really honestly believe books that have sat around for 35 to 40 years or longer will achieve 9.8 without a good squeezing.

 

Yep. I have some fifty to sixty year old 9.8 books that did not undergo any pressing. Some Gaines file copies make the grade.

[JiveTurkeyMoFo]

If you're saying that your book is currently slabbed already as a 9.2, and you think that if you resubbed it you'd get at least a 9.6 (absent any artificial improvement), then I say put your money where your mouth is. In fact, I'm happy to put my money where MY mouth is and I will offer to pay your slabbing fees for 10 separate resubs of that book. If you get a 9.6 back (again, absent any artificial improvement), you've gotten a "free" 9.6 on me. If it fails to come back as a 9.6 or better, you owe me my slabbing fees back, plus I get the #300 (in whatever grade it comes back on the 10th resub). Deal?

 

Tim, while I am not one to normally "look a gift horse in the mouth", I can assure you that there are indeed books in 9.6 slabs that simply don't belong there.

 

In my most recent submission, one of the Pictureframes I had graded a 8.5/9.0 came back as a 9.6. A couple of other Forumites looked at the book at Mega-Con (Brent from QualityComix...a tight, top notch grader, and Stephen/KingoRulers, winner of the Grading contest from a year ago) and both agreed it wasn't a 9.6 in any way shape or form. Clearly evident through the holder were defects that would keep it to no higher then a 9.2, most likely a 9.0.

 

So, it does happen, and grades are sometimes VERY arbitrary.

 

Good for me in this case, as I will benefit from the gift grade if I ever decide to sell it, but it does leave you scratching your head about the consistency factor.

 

Again, this wasn't a quarter grade difference. This was a FULL Grade difference between what should be a defect free book (9.6), and a book with obvious visible flaws (8.5/9.0).

[Dad&Son-migration]

.. but c'mon people... do you really honestly believe books that have sat around for 35 to 40 years or longer will achieve 9.8 without a good squeezing.

 

Yep. I have some fifty to sixty year old 9.8 books that did not undergo any pressing. Some Gaines file copies make the grade.

 

I agree ...there certainly are nice copies that have stood the test of time. But there are many SA books cropping up in high grade that just seem suspect. I guess it comes down to buyer beware. I like the motto...' By the book, not the grade" and certainly have saved a lot of money listening to that motto.