9.8's ( What goes up, must come down )

[jediknight]

Look at this nobody Transformers issue

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...s_promot_widget

 

If this one can go this high then any, and I mean any -because of an upcoming comic move- can bring in the casheroo. If you want to make some casheroo save your 9.8s on all your nobody copper and moderns. Heck I think I have new respect for all my nobody comics out there.

[worldsbestcomics]

.. but c'mon people... do you really honestly believe books that have sat around for 35 to 40 years or longer will achieve 9.8 without a good squeezing.

 

Yep. I have some fifty to sixty year old 9.8 books that did not undergo any pressing. Some Gaines file copies make the grade.

 

I agree ...there certainly are nice copies that have stood the test of time. But there are many SA books cropping up in high grade that just seem suspect. I guess it comes down to buyer beware. I like the motto...' By the book, not the grade" and certainly have saved a lot of money listening to that motto.

 

"Buy the book, not the holder" is so true, especially when collecting 9.6s and 9.8s. I love knowing the history of books I buy. Who was the original owner, has it ever been pressed, who submitted it to CGC and when. Was it submitted more than once? I've passed on some books that I saw in person and regretted some books I bought on eBay without an opportunity to look at closely.

 

But, I will say this, I have over 400 high-grade CGC books in my collection and I disagree with their grade on just one issue. There are some good dealers out there who grade accurately but I can't imagine going through 400 books from any dealer and disagreeing with just one grade.

 

And I've submitted my own books for grading and got back over 150 9.8s, none were pressed. But, most were copper and early modern. Bronze and silver is much harder to find in original owner raw NM/M.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Look at this nobody Transformers issue

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...s_promot_widget

 

If this one can go this high then any, and I mean any -because of an upcoming comic move- can bring in the casheroo. If you want to make some casheroo save your 9.8s on all your nobody copper and moderns. Heck I think I have new respect for all my nobody comics out there.

 

Perfect example of what I'm trying to get at with the 9.8 grade and speculation. Here is a truly POS book that I wouldn't even give a second look at in a quarter bin.

[jediknight]

And since you guys are talking about pressing in this thread, I recommend you save yourself some casheroo and put the heating press machine aside. Instead, git yerself a big whopping pair of heavy magnanimous saggies and plop them on your wrinkled comic. Then watch the miracle.

[namisgr]

One aspect of this discussion has been considered at length: the variance in the CGC numerical grading. Another aspect that receives far less attention is the overall quality, irrespective of the numerical grade. Cover color preservation, cover whiteness preservation, cleanliness, cover wrap, staple placement, gloss, and page quality are just some of the additional characteristics that contribute to the "eye appeal" of comics but don't factor much if at all in the CGC numerical grade.

 

The craziness I see in the marketplace is not simply the earth-shattering prices being paid for ultra-high grade copies but these same prices being realized for a subset of these copies, the ones with excellent structural preservation (i.e., high numerical grades), but badly flawed eye appeal. That's the part that, for me, is truly nutso.

[lou_fine]

The craziness I see in the marketplace is not simply the earth-shattering prices being paid for ultra-high grade copies but these same prices being realized for a subset of these copies, the ones with excellent structural preservation (i.e., high numerical grades), but badly flawed eye appeal. That's the part that, for me, is truly nutso.

 

Very simple explanation for this phenonemon.

 

These are the newbies or the day traders who don't really know anything about comics at all except for the CGC number. They are the ones who spend big money buying the labels without even taking a look at the book itself.

 

But then again, who am I to say what people should be spending their money on. To each their own, I guess as it's a free marketplace.

[adamstrange]

The craziness I see in the marketplace is not simply the earth-shattering prices being paid for ultra-high grade copies but these same prices being realized for a subset of these copies, the ones with excellent structural preservation (i.e., high numerical grades), but badly flawed eye appeal. That's the part that, for me, is truly nutso.

 

Very simple explanation for this phenonemon.

 

These are the newbies or the day traders who don't really know anything about comics at all except for the CGC number. They are the ones who spend big money buying the labels without even taking a look at the book itself.

 

But then again, who am I to say what people should be spending their money on. To each their own, I guess as it's a free marketplace.

 

There are collectors to whom the "structural grade", for lack of a better term, is vastly more important than the other factors that you cite. This phenomenon pre-dates CGC, although the general acceptance of their grading standards by the marketplace may have expanded the pool of collectors to whom these other qualities matter little in their overall purchasing decision.

[Dad&Son-migration]

One aspect of this discussion has been considered at length: the variance in the CGC numerical grading. Another aspect that receives far less attention is the overall quality, irrespective of the numerical grade. Cover color preservation, cover whiteness preservation, cleanliness, cover wrap, staple placement, gloss, and page quality are just some of the additional characteristics that contribute to the "eye appeal" of comics but don't factor much if at all in the CGC numerical grade.

 

The craziness I see in the marketplace is not simply the earth-shattering prices being paid for ultra-high grade copies but these same prices being realized for a subset of these copies, the ones with excellent structural preservation (i.e., high numerical grades), but badly flawed eye appeal. That's the part that, for me, is truly nutso.

 

A very good point!! Eye appeal is truly the one indicator I go on when looking at a book. Everyone will have different opinions on what has the best eye appeal to him/her and that's the way it should be. What is disturbing to me is someone paying $6,400.00 for Ghost Rider #1 in 9.8 when a 9.2 is priced at $120.00 and often sells for much less.

[THE_BEYONDER]

One aspect of this discussion has been considered at length: the variance in the CGC numerical grading. Another aspect that receives far less attention is the overall quality, irrespective of the numerical grade. Cover color preservation, cover whiteness preservation, cleanliness, cover wrap, staple placement, gloss, and page quality are just some of the additional characteristics that contribute to the "eye appeal" of comics but don't factor much if at all in the CGC numerical grade.

 

The craziness I see in the marketplace is not simply the earth-shattering prices being paid for ultra-high grade copies but these same prices being realized for a subset of these copies, the ones with excellent structural preservation (i.e., high numerical grades), but badly flawed eye appeal. That's the part that, for me, is truly nutso.

 

A very good point!! Eye appeal is truly the one indicator I go on when looking at a book. Everyone will have different opinions on what has the best eye appeal to him/her and that's the way it should be. What is disturbing to me is someone paying $6,400.00 for Ghost Rider #1 in 9.8 when a 9.2 is priced at $120.00 and often sells for much less.

 

Just be happy that it wasn't you that flushed 6K down the toilet.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Just be happy that it wasn't you that flushed 6K down the toilet.

 

An even better point....

[the blob]

"I fully agree.. the term " A sucker born every minute" pops into mind and I'd be happy submitting moderns for $12/piece to only flip them later for 10-30 times that amount. I'm sitting on 4,000 to 5,000 books I originally bought in the 70's and 80's that could easily achieve the 9.8 status on many of the them."

 

1) A relatively small % of them will come back 9.8s. If you took care of your books I suppose a lot will come back 9.0 - 9.6, which, on a common modern, means you've either wasted $3 for the pre-screen or $12 on the slab. I'll admit I've only owned one 9.8, an early Moore Swampy, and that darn thing was perfect. It was a lot sharper than the slabbed similar era 9.4 (ASM 300) I owned (I don't tend to chase high grade slabs).

 

2) Other than ASM 300, which modern do you have that's going to get you 10-30 the slabbing fee? Most moderns, even in 9.8, will likely not even get you back your grading fee and that most likely applies to a lot of hype driven books. Are 9.8s of GR Series II early 90's issues getting any money?

 

3) Modern 9.8s commanding huge bucks regardless of what the book is is a long dead. Heck, the aforementioned early Moore Swampy I mentioned I bought from Colossus for $9.99, and that was almost 2 years ago. I flipped it last year for $25 or so, which doesn't seen that bad for a 20+ year old book in 9.8 with some collectibility outside the slab.

 

As for the Ghost Rider books...last week I sold a bunch. I don't know about "dumping" or anything. They weren't selling for huge bucks, I got around guide or so, I was happy.

[Underdog]

Is there somewhere online that actually breaks down the numerical grading scale? I mean one that actually helps in determining the difference in a 9.8, 9.6, 9.4 and 9.2, so on and so forth.

Gotta be some guidelines to this, doesn't there?

[the blob]

"Perfect example of what I'm trying to get at with the 9.8 grade and speculation. Here is a truly POS book that I wouldn't even give a second look at in a quarter bin."

 

High grade (9.6/9.8) transformers issues from about then have been solid $5-$10 (ok, $10 might be pushing it) books for a while if you could get someone to believe your grade. I sold a VF copy of the issue before that for like $4 and have sold a bunch of the later (but not at the end of the series) issues for like $3. Not big money, of course, but not quarter books either. $90 and change does seem a bit much, I agree. OTOH, I don't know how easy it would be to fist 9.8s of that book out of the back issue bins given that it has been sitting there getting manhandled for 20 years.

[the blob]

Also, those books are being bought, at those prices, or at least the prices are being driven up, by 30 year olds who have money who fondly remember the Transformers cartoons from their childhood and are excited about the movie, not really grade snobby comic collectors.

 

I guess the point I've been trying to make is that relatively few of your bagged and borded coppers and moderns you've had in storage for 15-20 years are going to come back 9.8s. Submit your nicest 500 to a pre-screen and see what happens (oh yeah, that could be an expensive proposition!).

[Sharkey]

Look at this nobody Transformers issue

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vie...s_promot_widget

 

If this one can go this high then any, and I mean any -because of an upcoming comic move- can bring in the casheroo. If you want to make some casheroo save your 9.8s on all your nobody copper and moderns. Heck I think I have new respect for all my nobody comics out there.

 

JediKnight, I agree with you 100%. Now if they'll just make a Dazzler, Human Fly, She-Hulk, Machine Man, Micronauts, and Sub-Mariner movies I can retire to that beachfront mansion on Maui...

 

As far as the people here freaking out over prices paid for 9.8 books, what's the surprise? Uber high grade has brought a premium since day 1 in this hobby. The fact that people want to pay what you/me/others think are crazy prices for 9.8 copies of semi-recent books that might end up very common in 9.8 is of no concern to me -- people are free to do what they want with their money. Maybe they are uneducated new collectors with a ton of money to burn and no knowledge of the market -- or maybe they just have a passion for a certain book and are willing to pay for it.

 

All i know is, I wish I had a stack of 9.8 Transformers to sell.

[rjpb]

To the rest of the world spending 6K on a 9.8 GR#1 looks no crazier than spending the same on some beater GA "key" featuring a hero that no one recalls (Amazing Man #5), or a 9.6 copy of some non-key Ditko ASM. The trend of a spreading gap between grades has been going on for 35 years. The difference is that in 10 years we've gone from where even the biggest dealers would have a hard time asking more than 3 or 4 times what a 9.2 would sell for for a 9.8-10.0 copy of many books to a 50:1 ratio that would have been surprising in a jump from 2.0-9.8 not that long ago.

 

It could be that super-high grade comics have finally maxed out their historic investment advantage over lower grade books.

[FlyingDonut]

One aspect of this discussion has been considered at length: the variance in the CGC numerical grading. Another aspect that receives far less attention is the overall quality, irrespective of the numerical grade. Cover color preservation, cover whiteness preservation, cleanliness, cover wrap, staple placement, gloss, and page quality are just some of the additional characteristics that contribute to the "eye appeal" of comics but don't factor much if at all in the CGC numerical grade.

 

The craziness I see in the marketplace is not simply the earth-shattering prices being paid for ultra-high grade copies but these same prices being realized for a subset of these copies, the ones with excellent structural preservation (i.e., high numerical grades), but badly flawed eye appeal. That's the part that, for me, is truly nutso.

 

A very good point!! Eye appeal is truly the one indicator I go on when looking at a book. Everyone will have different opinions on what has the best eye appeal to him/her and that's the way it should be. What is disturbing to me is someone paying $6,400.00 for Ghost Rider #1 in 9.8 when a 9.2 is priced at $120.00 and often sells for much less.

 

Why the *spoon* do you care? Why is that disturbing to you? It isn't YOUR money. Seriously, what do you care what somebody else pays for a book? Is it ANY of your business? NO, and what that person does with his/her money is his/her business.

 

Every six months this same *spoon* comes up againandagainandagainandagain.

 

Buy what you like. Don't worry about what anybody else buys. The marketplace will be just fine. Capitalism works.

[lou_fine]

To the rest of the world spending 6K on a 9.8 GR#1 looks no crazier than spending the same on some beater GA "key" featuring a hero that no one recalls (Amazing Man #5), or a 9.6 copy of some non-key Ditko ASM.

 

To me there is a significant difference between the two and serves to illustrate the polarity in this marketplace.

 

From my point of view, a collector who is paying multiples of guide for what would amount to a low grade in-demand GA book is paying for the actual comic book itself. This price is being paid due to the underlying price strength in the comic book itself.

 

A purchaser who is willing to spend $6K on an uber HG Modern or BA key book is most likely paying for the label only. Especially if the book itself can only be sold at a discount to guide in low grade, mid grade, or possibly even high grade conditions. There is no relative underlying price strength, as the price really derives from what the label says. These are the types of books that are prone to have big drops in price once another higher graded copy or equally graded copy shows up in the marketplace.

 

The polarity is that one is a collector of comic books while the other is really more a collector of CGC labels.

[Dad&Son-migration]

Why the *spoon* do you care? Why is that disturbing to you? It isn't YOUR money. Seriously, what do you care what somebody else pays for a book? Is it ANY of your business? NO, and what that person does with his/her money is his/her business.

 

Every six months this same *spoon* comes up againandagainandagainandagain.

 

Buy what you like. Don't worry about what anybody else buys. The marketplace will be just fine. Capitalism works.

 

You make a fair point Flying Donut, it isn't my money. But it's disturbing because it sets a precedant that it's somehow ok to spend thousands more because a book is subjectively given 0.6 points higher. That seems ok to you... the books aren't one of a kind You're right... capitalism does work but you take away the buyers with their "wants" and capitalism doesn't work very well in a market that doesn't supply "staple goods" In 1998, you would've looked at a 9.8 and 9.2 book and called it NM with no destinction of 0.2 points either way.

[Sid]

To the rest of the world spending 6K on a 9.8 GR#1 looks no crazier than spending the same on some beater GA "key" featuring a hero that no one recalls (Amazing Man #5), or a 9.6 copy of some non-key Ditko ASM.

 

To me there is a significant difference between the two and serves to illustrate the polarity in this marketplace.

 

From my point of view, a collector who is paying multiples of guide for what would amount to a low grade in-demand GA book is paying for the actual comic book itself. This price is being paid due to the underlying price strength in the comic book itself.

 

A purchaser who is willing to spend $6K on an uber HG Modern or BA key book is most likely paying for the label only. Especially if the book itself can only be sold at a discount to guide in low grade, mid grade, or possibly even high grade conditions. There is no relative underlying price strength, as the price really derives from what the label says. These are the types of books that are prone to have big drops in price once another higher graded copy or equally graded copy shows up in the marketplace.

 

The polarity is that one is a collector of comic books while the other is really more a collector of CGC labels.

 

You are most likely a GA collector, am I wrong? In all honesty, I think a lot of high grade GA collectors buy the label, not the other ages. Fact is high grade labels for GA demand more of a premium and numerous examples posted showing gradual climbs in grades by books, a lot of them were GA books. The price jump is more immediate on them due to collectors chasing more.

 

The argument that SA and BA books are more common in high grades therefore shouldn't get a premium is played out IMO. A 9.8 bronze with it's crazy premiums is still a lot cheaper then similarly graded GA, and most collectors can't afford 9.4+ GAs, while silver/bronze would still be a possiblity. The market is bigger, wider and definately less tolerant of lower graded books due to those facts. So, why is it a big deal if SA/bronze/Copper collectors pay premiums?

 

Simply put, people collect comic books for a lot of different reasons and each collector should be well left alone by everyone no matter what their choices are. These type of threads with general bashing is sad and plain stupid. Everyone has rights to do whatever they please with their money, if they start to spend yours then by all means put up this BS but until then leave everyone alone to their own habits.