What has been your Latest CGC Submissions =0)

[supapimp]

i don't need luck, i need investors!

[ubiquiti]

I'll invest $20 bucks................

If my wife will let me.

[Guest]

Supa, I honestly don't think that the grading business, or let me clarify this, the COMIC grading biz is as BIG a money making venture, as we may think it is. Wasn't there some talk on this Forum a while ago about CGC operating in the RED for the first year or two? Are they operating in the BLACK as of yet, or still in the red? And if they AREN'T generating positive capital from grading, how are their salaries and expenses being paid? To my knowledge, the graders and other personnel are not mega-wealthy JP types that can keep losing money indefinitely and STAY in business, unless that is NOT the sole purpose of the business, to be relying solely on submissions from collectors to generate profits to stay in business. The only one I know of that is a prominant former dealer, turned CGC grader, turned BACK to a dealer, all within a very short span of time is John Chrusinski (spelling?) of Tropic Comics. John is/was owner of some VERY high grade, VERY high powered CGC Golden age books). I believe I read where Ernst Gerber had initiated a grading/encapsulating service many moons ago, long before issuance of the Famed Gerber Photo Encyclopedias. It was a short lived venture.

It's altogether possible, Supa, that there aren't more grading services because it's just not that good a money making venture, and probably nowhere near as good as buying and selling the books instead of just grading them for a nominal fee if you have the expertise these graders have.

[delekkerste]

Supa, I honestly don't think that the grading business, or let me clarify this,

the COMIC grading biz is as BIG a money making venture, as we may think

it is.

 

I suspect this is indeed the case. I heard some rumblings a while back about

some West Coasters looking to create a CGC rival, perhaps in conjunction

with PCE. Guess it never got off the ground.

 

If the comic grading biz isn't a cash cow with only 1 grading shop around,

just imagine how it will be with 2 or 3. Or, if they are printing money over at

CGC now, I wonder how long it can last. Of course I only wish CGC well,

but I have to believe that at some point submissions are going to fall off

quite a bit. I know I've already slabbed everything in my collection that's worth

slabbing. Are there really enough high grade gems out there to sustain this

kind of slabbing volume for another 3, 5, 10 years? Also, the poor performance

of sub-NM grades in the aftermarket and the obliteration of new issue prices

(often not justifying their slabbing cost) has got to be felt by people slabbing

these books.

 

Just my two cents. Of course, Supa, if you put together a business plan that

convincingly shows otherwise, I'd love to see it. Also, I would definitely try out

your service!

 

Gene

[Guest]

I'd support you, pimpy, but it'd be a tough go, I think.

 

Aside from Beckett, I don't see any prospective new grading services out there, unless one of the second tier card grading operations gives it a shot.

[comicinvestor-migration]

If you do the math on the submission rates, the comics graded per hour (that CGC has released) and then take an average fee (assuming a larger portion for Modern, but still taking into account some hihg-dollar FMV walk-ons) it would be inconceiveable for CGC to be losing money at this point.

 

This is a huge chunk of change, and given their small employee base, they had to be a profitable business (even given large capital expenditures to start) after the first year or so.

 

And we're talking about the guys at the top of the food chain, not individual salaried employees.

[Guest]

C.I., I think that if there were sufficient cash as a profitable business, more graders (what..there's only a handful in the world that can grade to the parent company's standards?), more customer service staff to handle complaints, problems, and PROMOTE good will, creative consultants on staff for developing a line of products that they already SHOULD have developed and been offering in an online store for the past 2 years, etc., because there WAS a large scale generated positive cash flow coming in that door, they would have done so. Whether directly or indirectly CGCs biggest "customer" is JP, and logically, if JP is the single largest buyer of graded books, books that will at some point BECOME graded, or resubmitted for re-grading, it stands to reason that a GREAT deal of CGCs success, whether operating the service to grade the public's books or not, whether in the red or black, and by how much, JP is their best CGC book contact "customer".

[homer-migration]

Supa, I honestly don't think that the grading business, or let me clarify this,

the COMIC grading biz is as BIG a money making venture, as we may think

it is.

 

I think the grading business, like any other business can be as hugely profitable as the hobby. I think that the threat of competition is the sole reason that CGC are grading more harshly (and no matter what anyone says they are!). It is the credibility factor - it is the fear of a competitor -

 

CGC made some huge mistakes in the beginning. In their effort to become established, some of their 'authorized dealers' were questionable. I remember a few years ago submitting a book through one such dealer, and he telephoned me for my credit card number to have the book shipped back - as his credit card was at the limit. When I submitted through another shop in the same city they lost an X-Men 94 (or told me CGC did) - I have never received compensation for this book, even though the shop (still an 'authorized' dealer) admits they received it, and I didn't get it back.

 

Their shipping Department in New Jersey had massive hiccups, and the shipping department in Florida badly packed items to such an extent for awhile that I had cracked cases in six consecutive submissions. They are better now.

 

The inexcusable five months wait for 'Modern' we experienced last year must have driven thousands of books from not being submitted - and to the casual on-looker, many people have suggested that they fixed this problem by grading 'Modern' books more harshly - I would imagine their 'Modern' submissions have slowed to a trickle in comparison to last year's numbers.

 

The signature series is a flop and will never appeal to the serious collector - only to opportunist dealers and novice buyers - and they could have gotten into merchandising in a big way with very little effort, but certainly more staff. The idea that pre-graders grade then a single person looks at every single book was ludicrous - and certainly, those people who paid by cheque or money order never paid any shipping differences from internet total to actual.

 

With all due respect, as much as I like the idea of CGC, and I am a firm apologist of them - It is just very poorly run - The work the graders do I think is exemplary, and the presentation is great - If a business with a five month waiting list, and at the peak I am told, "was receiving 10,000 books a day" did not make a fortune, then how could you possibly come to any other conclusion that the reins of the business were not in the hands of a businessman.

 

If a group of credible individuals come along, with the blessing of the comic community; offering a better service, a similar product, at a better price; and quite frankly more congruent grading - and this Company appears with well delineated roles - graders to grade - businessmen to run the company - marketing men to promote the business - and a merchandising department - with easy access north, south , east and west - we will see how much money is to be made in the grading business.

[delekkerste]

it would be inconceiveable for CGC to be losing money at this point.

 

I think this is likely the case - I professed my agnosticism in my last post, but upon

further reflection and reading the later posts, I think they must be doing quite well

at this point.

 

However, I remain concerned about the potential for sustained long-term slabbing

volume given that (a) so many of the "worthy" comics have already been slabbed

and (b) the current negative economics of submitting new books and sub-NM books

(which was a huge part of the slabbing volume the past couple of years when the

market was a lot hotter). If you introduce competition into the mix and force the

competing service to compete on price and increase marketing & other expenses,

I could easily see one or both of the companies going bankrupt within 5 years.

 

Remember Overstreet's "FAN" magazine that was briefly a competitor to Wizard?

Wizard has somewhat of a monopoly on its market (I read CBG too, but it appeals

to a different audience than Wizard) and Overstreet probably thought it was a good

idea to publish a magazine with a better price guide, better freebies, better comic

market commentary...didn't quite work out, though, right?

 

I tend to believe that the comic grading market is not big enough for 2 competitors

given my forecast for lower slabbing volumes and continued softness in the aftermarket.

Though if someone is inspired enough to try and compete with CGC, I'd definitely throw

some business their way.

 

Gene

[Bonds25]

I imagine when submissions start to slow, they'll begin to grade comic magazines. And when that starts to slow, they'll begin grading other types of magazines like Time, Fortune, Sports Illustrated, Playboy, etc.

[delekkerste]

I imagine when submissions start to slow, they'll begin to grade comic magazines.

And when that starts to slow, they'll begin grading other types of magazines like Time,

Fortune, Sports Illustrated, Playboy, etc.

 

Heheh...this could bring a whole new meaning to "Very Fine" with Cream to

Off-White pages!

 

Gene

[BachelorOfComix]

And when that starts to slow, they'll begin grading other types of magazines like...Playboy, etc.

 

NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!! NOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Heck, if they started slabbing Playboys they would not stay slabbed for long.

 

Cheers,

 

Bachelor of Comics

 

 

[supapimp]

homer,

 

im not talking about becoming a millionare over night, im talking about doing a job that you love. how many of you out there actually truly love your job and what you do? if you do, your a very lucky person. don't get me wrong, i like bartending, but i don't want to do it for a frickin career. every monopoly would get somewhat worried when a upstart competiter comes into the market. just ask coca cola, mc donalds, etc.

 

supa

[homer-migration]

supapimp - Any job "you really love" still has to pay the bills, no matter how much bliss it gives. If you truely love your job your main concern would have to be its longevity. Since you are talking your own business, surely its longevity would be tangent on success. I've also been a bartender, and a waiter - and I've had my own business in a field I truely loved - Unfortunately when I owned this business I was too young to realize the importance of taking care of the business side of it - Luckily (or some might say unlucky) it was many years ago, and I have since rebounded.

 

I don't really think McDonalds is going to worry too much about Hanks Fries opening its first store.They would however be slightly more concerned if Walmart, for example decided a similar fast-food launch - This to McDonalds would be credible competition. By the same token I don't think CGC is going to worry too much about (with all due respect - a bartender (remember I was one too!), who freely admits he needs investors. I was not actually talking about you specifically, but a Group slightly more advanced in the process to compete against CGC - A Group who really doesn't need any more investors, who are highly respected in the comic and auction community - and have been in the business for a hell of alot longer. I can personally think of five or six people, if they were to form a Company ,

they would make CGC seem positively amateurish........But they probably won't because they "love what they do"........and we all know that comic people are not a greedy lot!

[Darthdiesel]

So you are saying CGC is greedy? Are you making a quality judgement of character there? Those who profit from comics or grading are lower on the totem pole than those collector purist who don't give a flying fig about prices or lower themselves to get into debates on prices and values of comics, yet consistently lowball dealers with their insulting offers??? HAAAAAA!

[comicinvestor-migration]

What you need to do supa is get together a solid business proposal, round up some potential graders known in the hobby, network some anti-CGC dealers and then package it all up and sent it to Beckett or one of the large, non-Collector Network grading companies.

 

There's probably no way you can get the capital by yourself, but if you have enough to pique the interest of another company, who also understands the profits of graded collectibles...

 

CEO Supapimp!!