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Raw comics

Started by jkrk,

48 posts in this topic

jkrk

jkrk

Posted
Posted

Most who post on this site have far more expertise than I have so I will bow to any who dispute the following.

In general raw "high priced" comics on E-Bay are either restored or overgraded(probably most low priced comics are overgraded as well) or both.

 

I have heard the staement from most large dealers that "the golden age collector wants to touch his books and wants no part of "CGC". Perhaps that is true in a number of cases. Unfortunately we are playing a game of numbers. The popularity of comics in the mainstream media has also brought out many unsrupulous sellers. They have found the "better way". I have also heard stories from a number of collectors who have bought high grade books from major dealers

and sent the books to CGC have found a percentage come back restored. It seems to me that if you are not a master at detecting restorations (looking at the books in person) then you are playing a losing hand in buying raw books (unless they are bought at a major discount). In most cases if the dealers repuation is that high you are not getting enough of a discount to play the game. In addition I believe it is not in the interest of the dealer to sell a graded book. What is his upside if he can get almost the same price for an ungraded copy? You are receiving a nominal discount and you are paying to have the book graded. Some clearly won't spend the effort to send the book away. Obviously most dealers will take the book back if a restoration is spotted assuming you sent the book to be graded. If the book comes back a half grade less who is ahead?

I am making some assumptions which might not be valid so I'm willing to learn. Hopefully I've started a controversy.

 

 

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aardvark88

aardvark88

Posted
Posted

Probably over 95% of the comics sold face to face at a local or major comicons are raw. There are still many collectors who are building their runs & actually READ their funny books.

The Lost Valley pedigree contains over 1,400 golden age. Seems like less than 20% have been slabbed thus far. I believe all have come back unrestored.

Slabbing will help Basement/Mad Cow Comics liquidate the key or very early golden age that has high Ostreet value at the comicon level.

Because most golden age comics have not been reprinted yet, most GA collectors desire them raw rather than trying to read them via microfiche.

Cgc is geared towards the investor or elite collector who already read the comics raw before they decided to upgrade to the Cgc 9.0 up level. 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

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sfilosa

sfilosa

Posted
Posted

The original post seemed to be a bit of a ramble, so I'm not quite sure what your question is (if any).

 

Here are my observations from a person who has collected off and on for over 25 years.

 

1) Most dealers grading stinks. I just got six books from a major dealer today. They were all suppose to be 9.2. Maybe one was, but atleast one or two would be lucky to get a VF- at best. I did pay only about 1/2 of guide for these books so it doesn't make sense to send them back. I'll have spent $15 in shipping cost on $120 worth of books and have nothing to show for it.

 

2) Even at conventions, many high grade books have hidden flaws. In the eighties, clean and pressed was the way to go. Now its considered restoration. How many times have you talked to a dealer and only when you mention something funny about the book that they say it might be restored.

 

3) CGC is the way to go BUT, there are defects that they don't downgrade for, that I believe most collectors would. Therefore, it is still nice to see a scan. Is their grade inconsistent at times, absolutely. Is it much better than buying overgraded, restored books, absolutely.

 

4) The only reason my collection ISN"T worth twice as much is simple; the raw books that I bought as NM ten years ago are in most cases VF's and in a few cases Restored. In most cases, the only people who really made money were the dealers.

 

5) I have yet to find a dealer that sells "raw" books that I believe are as strictly graded as CGC. If anyone knows of any, please share with us.

 

893blahblah.gif

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ninanina

ninanina

Posted
Posted
.

 

5) I have yet to find a dealer that sells "raw" books that I believe are as strictly graded as CGC. If anyone knows of any, please share with us.

 

893blahblah.gif

 

Doug Sulipa from Comic World. 'Nuff said. grin.gif

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Aces

Aces

Posted
Posted

5) I have yet to find a dealer that sells "raw" books that I believe are as strictly graded as CGC. If anyone knows of any, please share with us.

 

893blahblah.gif

 

 

27_laughing.gif

 

From my experience these guys do a pretty good job grading on eBay:

neatstuffcollectibles

Zillaf4 (Lange's sports and comics)

New-England-Showcase (not sure if that's the exact eBay ID)

 

Those above 3 list thousands at a time. Once in a while they overgrade cause of the volume. Eyes get sleepy... smirk.gif

 

gdcomics (Gary Dolgoff Comics)

 

Jim Hauser Comics (spelling? I haven't bought from hin in a while/can't remember eBay ID)

 

jhcomics (Jef Hinds)

 

I just got my first batch from jscomics and they seem all right.

One of the Bronze ASM actually might be a 9.8 as described. acclaim.gif

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greggy

greggy

Posted
Posted
New-England-Showcase? Really? confused.gif

 

hmmmm...I seem to remember a post or two about them. But....

 

I did hear great things from Gary Dolgoff. grin.gif

 

Jeff Hinds? crazy.gif

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Aces

Aces

Posted
Posted

I buy reading copies of the early marvels (Good to Fine) from New-England-Showcase.

 

So I can't comment on their ability to grade high-end books... confused-smiley-013.gif

 

Most of the G/VG/Fs I've gotten from them from 1962 - 1965 have been ok.

 

Some of their stuff was overgraded.

If you buy the large lots at 50-60% of book the value tends to even out.

I sell my doubles and get most of my money back. grin.gif

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Aman619

Aman619

Posted
Posted

I think the reason you hear that GA collectors like to touch and read their books is because MOST GA collectors go for midgrade copies and not the super high grade/high priced copies. These HG books benefit from CGC grading and restoration check.

 

But th enormal GA collector isnt looking for the best copy and therefore doesnt need the slab to tell him its a 4.0 or a 5.5 midrange fairly priced copy. And since he's buying the comic book and not investing in the label.

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PovertyRow

PovertyRow

Posted
Posted

But th enormal GA collector isnt looking for the best copy and therefore doesnt need the slab to tell him its a 4.0 or a 5.5 midrange fairly priced copy.

 

I agree. Neither enormal nor normal GA collectors are looking for the best copy! 27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif

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greggy

greggy

Posted
Posted
But th enormal GA collector isnt looking for the best copy and therefore doesnt need the slab to tell him its a 4.0 or a 5.5 midrange fairly priced copy.

 

I agree. Neither enormal nor normal GA collectors are looking for the best copy! 27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif27_laughing.gif

 

Pov's found a new playmate! confused-smiley-013.gif

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Shield

Shield

Posted
Posted

5) I have yet to find a dealer that sells "raw" books that I believe are as strictly graded as CGC. If anyone knows of any, please share with us.

 

 

Mr. Jim Payette. I've bought a few books from him. One was a golden age key book that he graded a VG+/Fine; I sent it to CGC and it came back a Fine +. Also, another "Fine" graded by Jim resulted in a CGC VF-.

 

I think he's actually a tad stricter than CGC, and a great guy.

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shadroch

shadroch

Posted
Posted
New-England-Showcase? Really? confused.gif

 

hmmmm...I seem to remember a post or two about them. But....

 

I did hear great things from Gary Dolgoff. grin.gif

 

Dolgoff has an excellant grasp of midrange grading. His g/vg are often sold by dealers as Vg/f. He does'nt seen to carry much true HG. Anyone within a few hours drive should pay Gary a visit. his warehouse is not to be believed. Thousands of books everywhere,no order to be found by an outsider, but he'll go to the right box and pull out a dozen of that rare book you are looking for.

And there are always a few gems hiding in his $1.00 boxes,or whatever he's charging these days.

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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted
Dolgoff has an excellant grasp of midrange grading. His g/vg are often sold by dealers as Vg/f.

 

Doug Sulipa (mentioned above as a good grader) buys lots and lots of books from Dolgoff...

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sfilosa

sfilosa

Posted
Posted

Lot's of choices, but not a lot of consensus on this board.

 

 

I buy reading copies of the early marvels (Good to Fine) from New-England-Showcase.

 

So I can't comment on their ability to grade high-end books...

 

Most of the G/VG/Fs I've gotten from them from 1962 - 1965 have been ok.

 

Some of their stuff was overgraded.

If you buy the large lots at 50-60% of book the value tends to even out.

I sell my doubles and get most of my money back.

 

 

This was who I inferred in my original post.

 

Maybe, I should have clarified myself regarding good raw dealers.

 

I'm only talking High-Grade. If you buy a VG book and it's at best a G/VG, in most cases that is miminal regarding value purposes. On the other hand if you expect a NM- and it's a VF+, and you send both books to CGC to be graded, the value after grading would be that the VF+ is worth 1/2 of what a NM- book would be.

 

That is SIGNIFICANT difference in value.

 

 

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500Club

500Club

Posted
Posted

I'd post an eloquent reply, but sfilosa covered it so well in his first post. I especially agree with the comment about the overall accuracy of CGC grading - it's the reason people have faith in and pay multiples for their HG slabs.

 

Showcase's grading is poor. This is consensus. I bought a lot of bronze Spideys advertised at 9.4/9.6 - the books were 8.5-9.2 in general.

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