Sale pending @ 85k

[action1kid]

Like you touched on, we have seen that one buyer coming in can actually move this market up - Parrino was your example and it is a good one. If and when (your "if", my "when") comic books as investments are noticed by more high net worth individuals, there will be multiple buyers coming in to buy the best stuff, with spending money like Parrino had, and creating a price floor that Parrino *didn't* have. Jay recognized the potential but for a variety of reasons, and unfortunately from my view, didn't stick around long enough to see it actualized.

Wasn't his departure partly because he got tired of being reamed by dealers?

 

I know the departure of several prominent collectors who left because they were tired of being reamed by dealers.

 

Makes you wonder if the hobby, and the dealers themselves, wouldn't have been better off in the long run to hold back just a bit and make a profit without treating every deal as if it's the last deal they'll ever make.

 

Man that last paragraph is really well said.To bad its not human nature.

Happy Holidays.

[adamstrange]

Like you touched on, we have seen that one buyer coming in can actually move this market up - Parrino was your example and it is a good one. If and when (your "if", my "when") comic books as investments are noticed by more high net worth individuals, there will be multiple buyers coming in to buy the best stuff, with spending money like Parrino had, and creating a price floor that Parrino *didn't* have. Jay recognized the potential but for a variety of reasons, and unfortunately from my view, didn't stick around long enough to see it actualized.

Wasn't his departure partly because he got tired of being reamed by dealers?

 

In the coin world Parino is an expert. In comics he relied on agents. Given the scope of what he was attempting to do, he was unlikely to be able to successfully execute his plan.

[action1kid]

He was buying at multiples and TRYING to sell them at multiples. Just look at one of his beautiful catologs to see what i mean and remember, those asking prices where quite a few years ago.

Example.Wasnt he asking 1 MILLION for the Marvel 1 art page?

He sold it for like 80k I think when he bailed out via Heritage to the Marrianos.

[adamstrange]

He was buying at multiples and TRYING to sell them at multiples. Just look at one of his beautiful catologs to see what i mean and remember, those asking prices where quite a few years ago.

Example.Wasnt he asking 1 MILLION for the Marvel 1 art page?

He sold it for like 80k I think when he bailed out via Heritage to the Marrianos.

 

I'm not sure thetime and manner of retailing the comics was consistent with his original game plan. I had a chance to talk with him early on -- or I should say that I had a chance to listen to him early on as he didn't need any help from me to carry on the conversation.

[action1kid]

Yes, I have LISTENED too him too. Many many times.

[ciorac]

In comics he relied on agents.

 

And thus his fate was sealed........

[ciorac]

Makes you wonder if the hobby, and the dealers themselves, wouldn't have been better off in the long run to hold back just a bit and make a profit without treating every deal as if it's the last deal they'll ever make.

 

Truer words were never written.

 

Odd though how some of those collectors keep going back for more of the reaming. Others tire and bail. Back when I dealt comics, I always tried to foster long term relationships with my customers based on trust and fairness. I would make money on the deals, sure, but not every dime that could be squeezed out of the book. I wanted them to know they had room to make money down the road if they so desired.

 

However, that altruistic approach led to my exit from the field. Fair pricing coupled with tight grading led to shilling. Dealers would enlist collectors that knew me to buy my books, under the pretense they were buying for themselves. Only to find out later they were functioning as agents for these dealers, who would in turn sell them as higher grades, and for more money.

 

Sad to be sure. But the saddest part was that some of these same collectors, who had enleagued themselves with these greed merchants, could have either kept the nice books they bought, or sold them later at a profit for themselves. Instead they stayed as minions of the dealer who later reamed them yet again.

 

The irony is that some of these collectors finally left the hobby after one too many reamings at the hands of their "friends". I remember some of their lamentations to me about how they were treated by those dealers, and remained silent, but thought to myself......what goes around came around for you my friend.

 

Of course the dealers proved that cheaters do prosper, as most of them are still around today.

 

I tried to make the hobby fun. Many of you who knew me then, can remember the big dinners that we would have at shows, most of which I picked up the tab for. I often would cut other dealers in on collections, so we could all make money, and get books for our customers. But, as I said, that was not the norm in the hobby so eventually it led to my leaving.

 

Now, as just a collector for the most part, only selling to buy more for my collection, it is fun again.

[batman_fan]

Hey Bill,

 

Wish you were still dealing today!

 

We have to meet up at one of these shows to trade war stories.

 

Greg

[ciorac]

Hey Bill,

 

Wish you were still dealing today!

 

We have to meet up at one of these shows to trade war stories.

 

Greg

 

I will be in Chicago this summer for sure. We are thinking about Mid-Ohio in the fall.

[adamstrange]

it is fun again.

 

Glad to hear that, Bill. You've been missed.

[ciorac]

it is fun again.

 

Glad to hear that, Bill. You've been missed.

 

Thanks Alan! I recall a nice dinner with you in San Diego one year!

[MrBedrock]

Makes you wonder if the hobby, and the dealers themselves, wouldn't have been better off in the long run to hold back just a bit and make a profit without treating every deal as if it's the last deal they'll ever make.

 

Truer words were never written.

 

Odd though how some of those collectors keep going back for more of the reaming. Others tire and bail. Back when I dealt comics, I always tried to foster long term relationships with my customers based on trust and fairness. I would make money on the deals, sure, but not every dime that could be squeezed out of the book. I wanted them to know they had room to make money down the road if they so desired.

 

However, that altruistic approach led to my exit from the field. Fair pricing coupled with tight grading led to shilling. Dealers would enlist collectors that knew me to buy my books, under the pretense they were buying for themselves. Only to find out later they were functioning as agents for these dealers, who would in turn sell them as higher grades, and for more money.

 

Sad to be sure. But the saddest part was that some of these same collectors, who had enleagued themselves with these greed merchants, could have either kept the nice books they bought, or sold them later at a profit for themselves. Instead they stayed as minions of the dealer who later reamed them yet again.

 

The irony is that some of these collectors finally left the hobby after one too many reamings at the hands of their "friends". I remember some of their lamentations to me about how they were treated by those dealers, and remained silent, but thought to myself......what goes around came around for you my friend.

 

Of course the dealers proved that cheaters do prosper, as most of them are still around today.

 

I tried to make the hobby fun. Many of you who knew me then, can remember the big dinners that we would have at shows, most of which I picked up the tab for. I often would cut other dealers in on collections, so we could all make money, and get books for our customers. But, as I said, that was not the norm in the hobby so eventually it led to my leaving.

 

Now, as just a collector for the most part, only selling to buy more for my collection, it is fun again.

 

You know, Bill, the dinners were fun. But I liked it when you picked up the tab at the strip clubs!

[sacentaur]

Makes you wonder if the hobby, and the dealers themselves, wouldn't have been better off in the long run to hold back just a bit and make a profit without treating every deal as if it's the last deal they'll ever make.

 

Truer words were never written.

 

Odd though how some of those collectors keep going back for more of the reaming. Others tire and bail. Back when I dealt comics, I always tried to foster long term relationships with my customers based on trust and fairness. I would make money on the deals, sure, but not every dime that could be squeezed out of the book. I wanted them to know they had room to make money down the road if they so desired.

 

However, that altruistic approach led to my exit from the field. Fair pricing coupled with tight grading led to shilling. Dealers would enlist collectors that knew me to buy my books, under the pretense they were buying for themselves. Only to find out later they were functioning as agents for these dealers, who would in turn sell them as higher grades, and for more money.

 

Sad to be sure. But the saddest part was that some of these same collectors, who had enleagued themselves with these greed merchants, could have either kept the nice books they bought, or sold them later at a profit for themselves. Instead they stayed as minions of the dealer who later reamed them yet again.

 

The irony is that some of these collectors finally left the hobby after one too many reamings at the hands of their "friends". I remember some of their lamentations to me about how they were treated by those dealers, and remained silent, but thought to myself......what goes around came around for you my friend.

 

Of course the dealers proved that cheaters do prosper, as most of them are still around today.

 

I tried to make the hobby fun. Many of you who knew me then, can remember the big dinners that we would have at shows, most of which I picked up the tab for. I often would cut other dealers in on collections, so we could all make money, and get books for our customers. But, as I said, that was not the norm in the hobby so eventually it led to my leaving.

 

Now, as just a collector for the most part, only selling to buy more for my collection, it is fun again.

 

Truer words were never written (again).

 

I've come to the conclusion that for far too many of us, it doesn't matter how many bad experiences occur or how many horror stories we hear. The Big Name Greed Merchants have the inventory which ultimately rules the day, pure and simple. This often keeps the "addicts" coming back to the "dealer" over and over again, no matter what.

 

The BNGM know this of course, and that's why there is little incentive to change their ways: stretch the grade, push the price, and don't engage in Full Disclosure. Get caught trying to slip one by you or leave someone feeling dirty after the transaction? It doesn't matter, they'll soon be back and if they're not, then some other player will come along to fill the sucker ranks.

 

We'd like to think of our beloved hobby as a sanctuary where we can have some fun and perhaps invest some money wisely at the same time. But once exposed to all the pathological manipulation and disingenuous dealings, an epiphany occurs and it's just never the same again. I've seen this happen time and time again with both major and minor collectors alike.

 

I really wish you were a full-time seller again, Bill - I have always been very pleased with all our interactions

 

STEVE

[tth2]

In the coin world Parino is an expert. In comics he relied on agents.

Yes, and those agents were dealers, who it is rumored ended up being on both sides of some of the deals that JP did. Even if they weren't on both sides of a deal, they were no doubt more than happy to make sure their buddies doing the selling were making out very very well.

[MrBedrock]

A friend of mine once said he would buy comics from Hitler at a Nazi-Con if he had the comics my friend needed. I guess the bottom line is this hobby is all about the books. Fortunately we get to meet and make some good friends along the way.

[ciorac]

You know, Bill, the dinners were fun. But I liked it when you picked up the tab at the strip clubs!

 

Gosh knows I could have bought some more golden age with the money I blew in Score's alone back in those days!

 

I stay as far away from those places as I can these days. As you know, I go from Mogwai to Gremlin when I enter one!

[ciorac]

Makes you wonder if the hobby, and the dealers themselves, wouldn't have been better off in the long run to hold back just a bit and make a profit without treating every deal as if it's the last deal they'll ever make.

 

Truer words were never written.

 

Odd though how some of those collectors keep going back for more of the reaming. Others tire and bail. Back when I dealt comics, I always tried to foster long term relationships with my customers based on trust and fairness. I would make money on the deals, sure, but not every dime that could be squeezed out of the book. I wanted them to know they had room to make money down the road if they so desired.

 

However, that altruistic approach led to my exit from the field. Fair pricing coupled with tight grading led to shilling. Dealers would enlist collectors that knew me to buy my books, under the pretense they were buying for themselves. Only to find out later they were functioning as agents for these dealers, who would in turn sell them as higher grades, and for more money.

 

Sad to be sure. But the saddest part was that some of these same collectors, who had enleagued themselves with these greed merchants, could have either kept the nice books they bought, or sold them later at a profit for themselves. Instead they stayed as minions of the dealer who later reamed them yet again.

 

The irony is that some of these collectors finally left the hobby after one too many reamings at the hands of their "friends". I remember some of their lamentations to me about how they were treated by those dealers, and remained silent, but thought to myself......what goes around came around for you my friend.

 

Of course the dealers proved that cheaters do prosper, as most of them are still around today.

 

I tried to make the hobby fun. Many of you who knew me then, can remember the big dinners that we would have at shows, most of which I picked up the tab for. I often would cut other dealers in on collections, so we could all make money, and get books for our customers. But, as I said, that was not the norm in the hobby so eventually it led to my leaving.

 

Now, as just a collector for the most part, only selling to buy more for my collection, it is fun again.

 

Truer words were never written (again).

 

I've come to the conclusion that for far too many of us, it doesn't matter how many bad experiences occur or how many horror stories we hear. The Big Name Greed Merchants have the inventory which ultimately rules the day, pure and simple. This often keeps the "addicts" coming back to the "dealer" over and over again, no matter what.

 

The BNGM know this of course, and that's why there is little incentive to change their ways: stretch the grade, push the price, and don't engage in Full Disclosure. Get caught trying to slip one by you or leave someone feeling dirty after the transaction? It doesn't matter, they'll soon be back and if they're not, then some other player will come along to fill the sucker ranks.

 

We'd like to think of our beloved hobby as a sanctuary where we can have some fun and perhaps invest some money wisely at the same time. But once exposed to all the pathological manipulation and disingenuous dealings, an epiphany occurs and it's just never the same again. I've seen this happen time and time again with both major and minor collectors alike.

 

I really wish you were a full-time seller again, Bill - I have always been very pleased with all our interactions

 

STEVE

 

Thanks very much for the kind words Steve. I had a lot of fun in those days, but I had the epiphany of which you referred and there is no going back.

[MrBedrock]

 

I've come to the conclusion that for far too many of us, it doesn't matter how many bad experiences occur or how many horror stories we hear. The Big Name Greed Merchants have the inventory which ultimately rules the day, pure and simple. This often keeps the "addicts" coming back to the "dealer" over and over again, no matter what.

 

The BNGM know this of course, and that's why there is little incentive to change their ways: stretch the grade, push the price, and don't engage in Full Disclosure. Get caught trying to slip one by you or leave someone feeling dirty after the transaction? It doesn't matter, they'll soon be back and if they're not, then some other player will come along to fill the sucker ranks.

 

We'd like to think of our beloved hobby as a sanctuary where we can have some fun and perhaps invest some money wisely at the same time. But once exposed to all the pathological manipulation and disingenuous dealings, an epiphany occurs and it's just never the same again. I've seen this happen time and time again with both major and minor collectors alike.

 

I really wish you were a full-time seller again, Bill - I have always been very pleased with all our interactions

 

STEVE

 

Steve,

While I generally agree with you on most things, this post seems to say that all big name dealers with large inventories eventually try to pull one over on some unsuspecting collector in the name of greed. Now I know you don't mean all of them (us if you want to include me, though I consider myself a medium name dealer - a MNGM). Could you iterate exactly which ones you feel conduct business this way so we all can avoid them in the future. Otherwise it throws a wet blanket over every large comic dealer, even those who try to provide quality customer service, with a large selection, and a helpful staff (a club which I someday hope to join).

Richard Evans

Medium Size Comic Dealer

[mr.schomburg]

Dealers and sellers alike have but one chance to make an impression with me. If a dealer misleads, overgrades grossly, or involves a shill tactic to force price up or manipulate a sale, they are done. I will not under any circumstances repeat business with a dealer who did not treat me fairly. I would not care if they had a book I wanted for 10 yrs, and the price was right, I would not again let them sell to me. There always is another deal, another book, and a lot of truely good dealers/sellers who are honest and care about cust. service and provided well described, honestly graded, fast shipping, without the you owe me attitude. The fact is, you don't owe these mega sellers/dealers anything, but they owe you everything. Collectors are the life blood of their business, and should be treated with the utmost care and groomed as potential long term investments.

[MrBedrock]

Dealers and sellers alike have but one chance to make an impression with me. If a dealer misleads, overgrades grossly, or involves a shill tactic to force price up or manipulate a sale, they are done. I will not under any circumstances repeat business with a dealer who did not treat me fairly. I would not care if they had a book I wanted for 10 yrs, and the price was right, I would not again let them sell to me. There always is another deal, another book, and a lot of truely good dealers/sellers who are honest and care about cust. service and provided well described, honestly graded, fast shipping, without the you owe me attitude. The fact is, you don't owe these mega sellers/dealers anything, but they owe you everything. Collectors are the life blood of their business, and should be treated with the utmost care and groomed as potential long term investments.

 

I agree! I am just trying to figure out who THEY are. I think we may only be talking about one or two. Let's call them out and then burn their homes, rape their women, raze their fields and salt the scorched earth so they never come back!