CGC Holders are Not Archival

[dad-migration]

I just wondered how many people who buy and keep CGC comics know that the holder is not archival. The holder is not air-tight, and the book will slowly oxidize and brown.

 

CGC itself I believe recommends that books be returned to them every 5 years or so for re-encapsulation. How many people are going to do that? Not many, I bet.

 

I keep my books in mylar bags with standard acid-free archival backing boards. The books are then stored upright in METAL airtight boxes. No air, no oxygen, no aging. Oh yes....the boxes have silica gel in them to avoid condensation and maintain humidity at a maximum of 40%.

 

 

[DiceX]

Then put your CGC books in a bag and put them in your metal box.

What's the difference?

[DiceX]

Better yet.

Put your slabs in one of these babys...

Click Me

[supapimp]

CGC itself I believe recommends that books be returned to them every 5 years or so for re-encapsulation.

 

i believe sborock said every 7 years to change the micro chamber paper.

[fantastic_four]

To make the statement "the holder is not archival" infers that the materials the holder is made from degrade in a way to damage the comic. This isn't what you meant, though, was it? If you meant that keeping it in the case alone isn't enough, then if people don't know that, they're not paying much attention...CGC states this on the back of every label.

 

The airtight thing is something I've been trying to figure out for a while. I know the vast majority of the items stored at the Library of Congress aren't kept in airtight conditions...in fact, I think only the oldest of materials are stored this way. I have heard some archivists claim that airtight conditions for pulp paper are not safe, because they trap the acid in there with the comic...I've still never heard a definitive answer to this question.

 

The one definitive answer I have heard is that controlling temperature and humidity matters waaaaaay more than whether a holder is airtight or not. Certainly the way many pedigree collections were stored such as Mile High--out in the open but in low temperature and humidity climates--tends to reinforce that idea.

[Aman619]

I keep my comics in the attic surrounded by lots of sticks of creamery butter

[fantastic_four]

I keep my comics in the attic surrounded by lots of sticks of creamery butter

 

Butter is a great antacid and is recommended by archivists around the world as something to smear all over paper documents to preserve them.

 

(not really)

[Darthdiesel]

FF, I remember you saying something about RJ's freezing storage once. I got his email today and he is touting that whole vacuum sealed comics from the 80s and how they have kep these frozen because "cold temperatures have been now to slow down the aging effects."

However, I'm still wondering why these vacuum sealed books in mylars did not keep moisture out, from what you were saying? Maybe it was never truly vacuum sealed properly?

 

[supapimp]

oh great cryogenics and comic magazines, first ted williams, now peter parker.

[fantastic_four]

From what I can tell, for the most part, his sealing process DID keep moisture out. But I'm sure he didn't do the sealing right from time to time. He didn't exactly freeze them; it's more like putting them in the fridge. Temperature was kept around 50 degrees, which is about the temp that large libraries keep their document storage room at. He says that he didn't even have the freezers running during the winters because the temp was low enough naturally to not need additional cooling.

 

I used to be impressed with that system of his. It's still sort of impressive, but now that I've seen how well-preserved some 60-year old books can be--like almost every Mile High and San Francisco pedigree comic--I don't think it's necessary unless you're trying to preserve something for your great, great grandchildren. With all the trouble he went through to store them...he cracked them 100 years early!

[sborock]

"No air, no oxygen, no aging. Oh yes....the boxes have silica gel in them to avoid condensation and maintain humidity at a maximum of 40%."

 

So you never see these comics? If the "metal" box is never opened to let air in, how do you view your comics?

 

One more time........ The interior well of the CGC holder is made of Barex, which is a safe way to store your comics.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mister_Comics]

I keep my comics in the freezer and they get freezer burn and don't taste good.

 

Seriously; Most of my comics have been in mylars for years and they grade high. As long as they are not in the light, in a cool place that isn't humid, and no little critters can get at, they should be fine. Plus not manhandled a lot. The comics will out last us if taken care of properly.

[Zonker]

The one definitive answer I have heard is that controlling temperature and humidity matters waaaaaay more than whether a holder is airtight or not. Certainly the way many pedigree collections were stored such as Mile High--out in the open but in low temperature and humidity climates--tends to reinforce that idea.

 

Yes on the low temp/low humidity environment for the Church collection. But also don't discount the effect of Church stacking his books and leaving them undisturbed for many years: A stack of comics under that kind of compression is a pretty good barrier to air. The story has been out there for some time that books towards the top of the stacks were less well-preserved than those further down. In any case, they weren't exactly "out in the open."

 

So the effects of air are I believe significant (somebody posted a story recently about surprisingly well-preserved newspaper clippings stored in zip-lock bags). I just wouldn't get carried away with trying to freeze-dry or hermetically seal your books. The inner bag of the CGC holder ought to be 'good enough' for all practical purposes, IMHO. (In case anyone out there has never cracked a slab, y'all do know the book is sealed in an inner soft-plastic "well" inside the hard-plastic slab, right? ).

 

[HooDeeDoo]

I keep my books in mylar bags with standard acid-free archival backing boards. The books are then stored upright in METAL airtight boxes. No air, no oxygen, no aging. Oh yes....the boxes have silica gel in them to avoid condensation and maintain humidity at a maximum of 40%.

 

You forgot to add:

 

nyah nyah nyah nyah nyaaaaah nyah

[CosmicBob]

FF, I remember you saying something about RJ's freezing storage once. I got his email today and he is touting that whole vacuum sealed comics from the 80s and how they have kep these frozen because "cold temperatures have been now to slow down the aging effects."

However, I'm still wondering why these vacuum sealed books in mylars did not keep moisture out, from what you were saying? Maybe it was never truly vacuum sealed properly?

 

Darth, you actually READ RJs emails?!?

 

Wow!

[Arty]

I just wondered how many people who buy and keep CGC comics know that the holder is not archival. The holder is not air-tight, and the book will slowly oxidize and brown.

 

CGC itself I believe recommends that books be returned to them every 5 years or so for re-encapsulation. How many people are going to do that? Not many, I bet.

 

I keep my books in mylar bags with standard acid-free archival backing boards. The books are then stored upright in METAL airtight boxes. No air, no oxygen, no aging. Oh yes....the boxes have silica gel in them to avoid condensation and maintain humidity at a maximum of 40%.

 

Storing books in a metal airtight box in humidity controlled environment (silica gel bags) is a good idea.

 

But "No air, no oxygen, no aging"???

WTF... There is still air/oxygen in you boxes unless you use oxygen absorbing sachets (Link to oxygen free storage info) or fill your boxes with nitrogen.

 

Another option to avoid oxygen is to seal your comics in vacuum (in polyester bags) Link

[dad-migration]

The one definitive answer I have heard is that controlling temperature and humidity matters waaaaaay more than whether a holder is airtight or not. Certainly the way many pedigree collections were stored such as Mile High--out in the open but in low temperature and humidity climates--tends to reinforce that idea.

 

I guess I disagree on the relative importance of humidity and temperature. I believe by far the most important factor is exposure to oxygen. Its pretty clear that what takes place to "brown" a page

is oxidation.

 

Yes, there is oxygen sealed inside my metal boxes. But not that much. Nothing compared to something like a cardboard box where the air is constantly circulating.

 

As someone else pointed out, the key factor in the Edgar Church books was probably storage in high stacks. From personal experience, I can verify this works!

 

Think about this. Paper absorbs and releases water with seasonal changes in humidity. This drives air and oxygen moving in and out of your mylar bags. Thus, I don't think its enough to just encapsulate in Mylar. You also need an external barrier.

 

I still can't get over the fact that people who own CGC books are supposed to return them every 7 years for re-encapsulation. What a sweet deal for CGC!

[stagedoorjohnny]

If you are concerned w/ oxygen and your encapsulated comics, I picked up some bags from BCE Mylar's booth in Chicago that are great. They are zip-lock "outer" bags that CGC books fit perfectly into. They seal up real nice and easy and you don't lose the ability to take your books out whenever you want. They're not cheap, $8 for 25 of them, but would seem to solve this problem to a certain degree. I'm very pleased with them.

[Darthdiesel]

I read them all...I'm astudent of his How to make $2 million by selling comics...I've got $1,950,000 to go

[Smokinghawk]

The vaccuum kitchen sealer is actually a decent idea...they even used it on the info-mercial on an ASM #3. The comic was kept in a mylar sleeve for acid-free protection, then vaccuum-sealed for pennies.

 

What about just applying a thin edge of hobbyist glue around the perimeter of a CGC slab if you're really concerned about being perfectly air-tight?