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Silverage Comic Dimensions?

Started by 12c_Comic,

19 posts in this topic

12c_Comic

12c_Comic

Posted
Posted

I'am a new member to this board so HI everyone, and also to collecting graded comics.I notice some CGC silverage comics with the purple border with the discription "Restored' with the text saying "cover trimmed".Does anyone know what is the minimum width and height a silverage ie:Marvel comic can be before it is considered "Restored"?

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drbanner

drbanner

Posted
Posted

The restored label has nothing to do with the height/width of the comic book, it has to do with whether or not the book has been worked on (trimmed) after publication. Restorers will slice a thin strip from the edges of the covers (and/or the interior pages) so that all the little dents, nicks, and tears are cut off the book, resulting in a higher "restored" grade. It's difficult to detect the difference between a trimmed book and a short/narrow book (as published), but there are techniques.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

Posted
Posted

I can't detect trimming most of the time myself, but I do know that the width of the book is no absolute indicator of trimming. If a book is a little thinner than the 6 3/4" that most Silver Age books seem to be, then it's a warning sign of a possible trim, but the width alone proves nothing.

 

I've heard that the color and texture characteristics of the edges can be used to determine a trim, but I haven't developed the ability to judge those characteristics yet.

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aardvark88

aardvark88

Posted
Posted

Think early silver Marvel is supposed to be about 6 7/8 inch wide. Silver DC should be 7 inch wide w/c is the precise width of the cgc inner well. Think silver Marvel were narrower around 1966 up (6.75 inch). Height may fluctuate depending on the original trimming process. Silver edges usually have some overhang. If a book is too square or flush on 3 edges, it MAY have been cropped. See c****-keys auctions for a variety of samples on eBay.

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Zonker

Zonker

Posted
Posted

Several years ago, in Overstreet's "Gold & Silver" Comic Book Quarterly (Jan/Mar 1994) there was an article that went through all the ends and outs of detecting trimming. As has been noted by others on the board, cover dimensions do not tell the whole story, but here is a quick summary from that reference:

 

Early Silver Age Marvels were 10.25" x 6.875"

Early Silver Age DCs were 10.25" x 7"

 

If you act quickly, you might be able to grab a copy of the magazine on eBay tonight:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=724812956&rd=1

 

I have absolutely no interest in this transaction. But as of 8:30 pm Tuesday EDT there were no bids. If you miss out and it closes unsold, you might still be able to make an offer to the seller.

 

Good luck,

Z.

 

 

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comicinvestor-migration

comicinvestor-migration

Posted
Posted

Actually, far apart from trimming, I feel that some of the "color touches" on Bronze and Modern books may be in error.

 

I personally know of two people who bought their comics directly off the shelf, and submitted several high-grade Bronze and Modern comics, only to find that 2-3 out of the 75-100 or so came back as restored - color touch.

 

This really shook them up, and after calling CGC (and finding out nothing) they weren't any further ahead. So trusting in their knowledge that these were one-owner comics purchased retail, these were re-submitted once again, and came back clean.

 

This is not to say that CGC doesn't pick up restoration pretty well, but more that after a long, hard day of grading, that some false-positives may sneak in. It's only the one-owner collections that would have a real issue with this, and resubmit to make sure, while others may just accept the edict.

 

I've only found this true of extremely minor color touch notations, especially on late-Bronze and Modern books. One theory is that some inks tones may show up under the old blue light, and could be erroneously noted as resto to err on the side of caution.

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OldGuy

OldGuy

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Correct. I don't remember the numbers, but it's something like that. I don't have a guide in front of me, sorry. Can someone tat has access to the guide post the section I'm talking about?

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aardvark88

aardvark88

Posted
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If cgc just missed a clean & press or trim job & called it Unrestored, I can believe it. I find it hard to believe they could miss a colortouch. If a comic is messily signed on the cover by an artist (Romita Sr) in gold/silver metallic pen, any overspray from the pen would glow & be deemed Purple label.

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Zonker

Zonker

Posted
Posted

OK page 69 relevant paragraph here. Note this is one dealer's anecdote, not Overstreet gospel. And terms of use prevent me from quoting the guy by name...

 

"I intentionally submitted 6 books I had S.C. restore for me. All 6 came back in unrestored holders! "

 

...Also states he and "other collectors and dealers" have gotten back CGC-judged restored comics that S.C. offers a second opinion are restoration free.

 

... Jeez, guys, next you'll all tell me there is no Santy Claus!

 

 

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Guest

Guest

Posted
Posted

Here is a comic that sure as heck looks like it has been trimmed on the right edge. There is absolutely NO evidence of any interior page bevel protruding past the right edge beyond the cover (a standard feature on 99.9% of all pre-1966 Marvels), but the artwork and code on the right edge are SEVERELY compromised, cut into, FAR too much in considering where the relative position of the left border artwork meets the folding point. Further, LOOK at the bottom right corner!!! There's a piece of the book protruding to the right that the "restorer" DIDN'T cut off with the rest of the right edge, that extends to the right, equal to almost exact the amount of the rest of the right edge (all besides that "dangling participle") that survived the amputation! By comparison to an "in-hand copy" of Spiderman 1, and extropulating measurements from where the extreme left edge of the book is in relation to the right edge (measured at various planes of width across the cover), in comparison to the physical copy, this book measures demonstrably under 6 and 7/8" in width (EXCEPT at the extreme bottom width, where that piece extends to the right).

In conclusion, size DOES vary, on untrimmed books. Even edges that display uncharacteristic production traits, because this Sotheby's offering can't possibly be trimmed. It's in a CGC blue top holder.

 

Here's the link. Hit the "view in large format" a little further down the page for a better look.

 

web page

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Ashcan!-migration

Ashcan!-migration

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I am happy I found this thread.

 

Recently I bought a nice collection, and was pretty happy with myself until I came across a copy of Avengers #2.

 

It was far, FAR too narrow. Trimmed for sure!!!

 

I began looking through the rest of the collection with this mindset and noticed LOTS of books where the cover didn't line up with the page edges. Each time, the cover was about 1/16th of an inch 'shy' of the first interior page.

 

In a panic, I contacted the seller to tell him I thought the books were restored.

 

He replied that he was the original owners of all but one of the books (the exception being a very rough FF1 that he traded for in the 60s), and that he had never tampered with them.

 

I thought it best to cover myself, so I submitted the suspect AV2, along with TOS 57, DD1, AV1, FF1 and a couple of others, express submission, to CGC.

 

Today, the good news, all got universal grades (not graded yet, but passed the restoration check).

 

The reason for posting here: the AV2 is at LEAST 1/4 of an inch narrower than the other books. I laid it on top of AV1 and it's crazy. There is a big chunk of the normal book sticking out. I really did think it must have been trimmed.

 

I did some research on how to detect trimming, and the usual signs were all okay when I looked. The pages made a point; there was a slight overhang at the top edge.

 

Must be a lot more variation in size of comic books than we suspect, even in the same series and the same year (AV1 vs AV2).

 

This hobby is still in its infancy compared to stamp collecting, which has been around for 100+ years longer; and philately tends to attract academics who have published studies about very minor differences between stamp printings and so on.

 

Comic collecting hasn't had that microscopic examination, yet. I mean, there is still very little published on the phenomenons of UK price variants in the 60s, or Canadian price variants in the 80s.

 

This has become a bit of a ramble, but if anybody is worried about trimmed books based solely on their width, I think this experience is interesting.

 

As soon as the book gets back from CGC, I will measure the width through the holder and publish a follow-up.

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