#1 Problem with the X-Men

[Chi Bamm]

So I'm reading the X-Men 2nd series. I actually have enjoyed the Carey/Ramos combination, they're just having fun with it.

 

However, we all know that the X-Men have well ALOT of X-Men and the rosters can get confusing and jumbled around quite a bit from arc to arc and even from issue to issue inside the arc.

 

Well this brings me to my point. In the last arc Primary Infection, issues 194-196, the X-Men we all love, Iceman is clearly on the team. Well in the last issue, they are in the same place, same setting, no Iceman......anywhere. The next arc begins exactly where the last one left off. They bring Rogue to Cable's island, and *poof* Iceman is there.

 

Now I could understand that it gets confusing and all. It's a big team but to just forget someone? Especially Iceman, he's one of the OG's.

 

Oh well, just a

 

I'm still liking the series though, much better than Brubaker's. Why another Shi'ar arc???

[bullseye]

The main thing that's bugged me about the X-men is wolverine randomly being in Canada or Japan in his series, then in New York or the Himilayas in X-men.

[Chi Bamm]

The main thing that's bugged me about the X-men is wolverine randomly being in Canada or Japan in his series, then in New York or the Himilayas in X-men.

 

That's the problem with Marvel for quite some time. They are using too few characters in too many titles. Therefore the ongoing continuity week to week goes out the window.

[bullseye]

Definitely have to agree, they could use some more characters, and I wouldn't mind seeing an interesting villain get a well written monthly as well (E.G. Bullseye, Kingpin, Sebastian Shaw, The Hand) Bullseye's titles were good, but I would like to read it for more than 3-4 issues.

[Chi Bamm]

The comic companies get tired of reinventing characters and obviously they have to create new ones. (I actually wonder how many people are in the MU) But the MU has become flooded with characters.

 

Now you say more individual titles but I can't say I wholly agree. I think there should be less titles and a tighter MU. However using more characters, a more tightly woven fabric.

 

Stop the team changes all the time, it's a shame. That's why I think people have been loving Astonishing X-Men. It's tightly woven, you know who's gonna be there, plus the Cassaday art doesn't hurt.

 

I believe that Joe Q. should adopt something similar to what Whedon has done. Eventhough Whedon has created his own characters he has kept them within his framework. He hasn't just created them then forgot about them, much like many of the X-Men related characters.

[bullseye]

When I say individual titles, I mean for characters who aren't in their own regular books, which is why I suggested villains. Do I think there needs to be more X-men/Avengers/FF/Wolverine books? not at all. In fact, if it were up to me I would cut down to a maximum of 2 titles per team/character in the normal MU, and 1 in the Ultimate Universe, which means spidey would lose about 15 titles(ok, he's only in like 7 solo titles, but still), but after almost 45 years of spidey, there can't be enough new stuff to sustain all of this.

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

 

Stop the team changes all the time, it's a shame. That's why I think people have been loving Astonishing X-Men. It's tightly woven, you know who's gonna be there, plus the Cassaday art doesn't hurt.

I too really enjoy the Cassaday/Whedon run, but sadly it's not part of the regular MARVEL continuity, and I'm tired of the ELSEWHERE approach. It's enough that we have the ULTIMATE universe so I wish they would clean house and better streamline the 616 universe (or whatever it is called). Sorry about the brief rant, but I LOVE continuity in all things I enjoy (comics, movies, TV, etc...) and I miss the 80s when the continuity within MARVEL comics seemed so tight.

 

And as far as Wolverine is concerned it was getting out of hand a year or two ago when he was doing all of the following simultaneously:

1) Gets killed and "ressurrected" as a zombie ninja, and goes around killing super-powered individuals and chased by S.H.I.E.L.D.

 

2) Over in NEW AVENGERS he's out in the SAVAGE LAND,

 

3) Dealing with the return of Colossus with ASTONISHING X-MEN (but it has been established that it is out of continuity).

 

Man, maybe WOLVERINE was the prototype for the process used to clone CLOR in CIVIL WAR. How else could he be everywhere???

[Pirate]

my biggest problem on x-men is carey and ramos.

[OldGuy]

my biggest problem on x-men is carey and ramos.

 

Werd.

[Real Elijah Snow]

 

Stop the team changes all the time, it's a shame. That's why I think people have been loving Astonishing X-Men. It's tightly woven, you know who's gonna be there, plus the Cassaday art doesn't hurt.

I too really enjoy the Cassaday/Whedon run, but sadly it's not part of the regular MARVEL continuity,

Where did this come from? I assumed it WAS part of continuity . Why wouldn't it be part of continuity? It would be a shame if the ONLY readable x-book does not have a place in Marvel history.

I have been reading Uncanny since issue #140, and that book has gotten almost un-readable. The Shiar junk is about as boring as it comes, and it's all been done to death.

The X-men book is slightly better, but both artists need to cut down on the L.S.D before they start drawing. Bachalo used to be a favorite, but now it's hard to tell what is even going on. I look at some of his pages and for the life of me cannot tell what happens on them.

Ramos also used to be decent (Impulse) , but now he is sooooo style-ized that most of the people look like Muppets. He also lacks clarity on some of his pages.

Guys i miss that drew the x-men:

Jim Lee

Marc silvestri

Chris Bacahlo (the younger version who had contact with reality)

Joe Mad

Paul Smith

John Romita jr

Leinel YU

Both of the Kubert boys

I could name at least 10 more that are preferrable to the current guys, but i don't want to bore anyone.

I just hope they clean these books up a little and soon.

[Real Elijah Snow]

Okay, i also like X-factor, and Ultimate x-men is okay. Those are read-able too!!

[davidpg]

As stated in another thread: I have been collecting and reading Uncanny for over 25 years and X-Men since the beginning. I'm very, very close to cancelling both titles.

 

The last storyline I really remember is Fall of the Mutants...since then it's all been a blur.

[WOXL]

As far as I know, Astonishing X-Men IS in continuity... only the book comes out so fricking infrequently that its characters are worked into other books. I don't think it's been established yet exactly where in continuity ASM takes place and so far it hasn't really mattered because the book has been so self-contained. The Unstoppable arc is supposed to have dramatic effects on the rest of the X-Universe so hopefully we'll see something of substance that other X-books actually acknowledge.

 

-Bob

[delekkerste]

As stated in another thread: I have been collecting and reading Uncanny for over 25 years and X-Men since the beginning. I'm very, very close to cancelling both titles.

 

The last storyline I really remember is Fall of the Mutants...since then it's all been a blur.

 

I started reading Uncanny in the early 1980s, gave up on the title in 1998, then came back to the fold a couple of years later, only to give it up again maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Over the years, the art has gotten consistently worse and the storylines have, in general, not been good for many, many years now. For me, it was all downhill after the Mutant Massacre...the moment the X-Men started being dead to the world and living Down Under, hanging with Gateway, was the moment the title "jumped the shark". Most of what followed is purely unreadable to me (with a few notable exceptions, of course). Most of the '90s stuff is pure drek.

 

A big factor in what ruined things was because they created so many mutants, many of whom were just ridiculous. It was like 5% of the MU were mutants. What happened to the days when the only mutants around were the X-Men, New Mutants, Alpha Flight and their respective rogues' galleries?? When mutants became more common than Toyotas in the MU and mutant titles became more common than drunken Lindsay Lohan sightings, you knew the quality was going to plummet. And it did.

[OldGuy]

drunken Lindsay Lohan

 

[MutantKeys]

drunken Lindsay Lohan

 

[Sal]

As stated in another thread: I have been collecting and reading Uncanny for over 25 years and X-Men since the beginning. I'm very, very close to cancelling both titles.

 

The last storyline I really remember is Fall of the Mutants...since then it's all been a blur.

 

I started reading Uncanny in the early 1980s, gave up on the title in 1998, then came back to the fold a couple of years later, only to give it up again maybe 2 or 3 years ago. Over the years, the art has gotten consistently worse and the storylines have, in general, not been good for many, many years now. For me, it was all downhill after the Mutant Massacre...the moment the X-Men started being dead to the world and living Down Under, hanging with Gateway, was the moment the title "jumped the shark". Most of what followed is purely unreadable to me (with a few notable exceptions, of course). Most of the '90s stuff is pure drek.

 

A big factor in what ruined things was because they created so many mutants, many of whom were just ridiculous. It was like 5% of the MU were mutants. What happened to the days when the only mutants around were the X-Men, New Mutants, Alpha Flight and their respective rogues' galleries?? When mutants became more common than Toyotas in the MU and mutant titles became more common than drunken Lindsay Lohan sightings, you knew the quality was going to plummet. And it did.

 

mutants are great fodder for lazy writers. they don't have to work up any origin stories, outside of the "my power first manifested in my teens under heavy duress" or some such nonsense. no need to construct a scenario by which it might be plausible for a dude to be able to, i dunno, make beams of solid power emanate from his scrotal area or whatever superhuman power is left these days.

 

of course, since these legions of ridiculous, soon-to-be-forgotten mutants were only taking the place of the legions of ridiculous, soon-to-be-forgotten non-mutants that seemed to be everywhere in the late 80s, i guess that part of it is a wash.

 

 

i do agree with you concerning your "jumping the shark" timing of the original series. i couldn't even get into the Jim Lee stories at that point.

 

Lindsey Lohan is the poster child for "post-photographic retouching necessary to achieve full potential." she reminds me of those girls you knew in high school that were hot until they went through the party grinder at college, and came out the other side ridden hard and left up wet. urgh

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

As far as I know, Astonishing X-Men IS in continuity... only the book comes out so fricking infrequently that its characters are worked into other books. I don't think it's been established yet exactly where in continuity ASM takes place and so far it hasn't really mattered because the book has been so self-contained. The Unstoppable arc is supposed to have dramatic effects on the rest of the X-Universe so hopefully we'll see something of substance that other X-books actually acknowledge.

 

-Bob

I wish I could find the sources clearly stating the out of continuity nature of this series, but it goes back at least a year... I'm 99% certain it was Quesada himself who said it, but recently he has alluded to it being PART of the 616 universe. However, has Colossus been seen anywhere outside of the pages of ATONISHING? If not, there you go, but if so then I guess it is in continuity.

 

Now if it is in continuity, where do you all think it fits in? Post House of M? Pre-Civil War? etc...

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

Where did this come from? I assumed it WAS part of continuity . Why wouldn't it be part of continuity? It would be a shame if the ONLY readable x-book does not have a place in Marvel history.

I have been reading Uncanny since issue #140, and that book has gotten almost un-readable. The Shiar junk is about as boring as it comes, and it's all been done to death.

The X-men book is slightly better, but both artists need to cut down on the L.S.D before they start drawing. Bachalo used to be a favorite, but now it's hard to tell what is even going on. I look at some of his pages and for the life of me cannot tell what happens on them.

Ramos also used to be decent (Impulse) , but now he is sooooo style-ized that most of the people look like Muppets. He also lacks clarity on some of his pages.

I actually enjoy the Shi'ar run (it's the only x-book outside of ASTONISHING I have bothered to buy/read in over 15 years), but I think my reason for liking it is your reason for disliking it - been done before. It takes me back to the Byrne/Claremont/Cockrum era. You cannot place a value on nostalgia - I devoutly followed the X-Men from #94-350 (although I truly lost interest before #300).

 

As for Bachalo, I'm glad to have found someone else who feels EXACTLY the same about him. I used to absolutely LOVE his work on GENERATION X, which roughly coincidided with my dropping of all MARVEL & DC in the mid 1990s. When I hopped back on board about 4 years ago I was excited to eventually see him pencil the AGE OF APOCALYPSE anniversary books, but upon seeing the actual books I was appalled. You truly cannot tell what is going on in most of his panels - jumbled foreground and background composition, and don't even get me started on his action panels - utter confusion!!!!

[KEY ISSUES Comics]

As stated in another thread: I have been collecting and reading Uncanny for over 25 years and X-Men since the beginning. I'm very, very close to cancelling both titles.

 

The last storyline I really remember is Fall of the Mutants...since then it's all been a blur.

Just do it Dave! Trust me, you'll feel better and you can use the money saved to buy some low grade Golden Age books from me.