No More Grades, Just BIG NUMBERS!

[Rip]

He would be on here 24-hours a day if he started responding/discussing/arguing with the "lunatics", and then our books would never get graded (numerized?)!!

 

Now I've seen him respond to Mr. Nice/Comic Keys numerous times.

 

But your right, I think the quote will have to do.

[joe_collector]

He would be on here 24-hours a day if he started responding/discussing/arguing with the "lunatics"

 

Umm banner, apparently all the lunatics are calling Steve direct with their "concerns".

 

"CGC, Steve speaking"

 

"Hallow? Dis is Elroy. I dun butt me some of yer CGC becks, and ma friend Enus wuz spoutin off 'bout da big minus sign on da steeker. Weren't da moonshine talkin' neither and I'm mighteee riled at the guffawin' and da chuklin at dis "minused" ko-leck-teeee-bull'"

 

"Would BIG NUMBERS help and no more minuses?"

 

"Dang howdey it shurely wud. Youze city slickers done know yer stuff out der in Flor-eeeeee-duh."

 

- drops phone on dirt floor -

 

( I told's ya Enus!!)

 

 

[ArAich]

[musicmeta]

He would be on here 24-hours a day if he started responding/discussing/arguing with the "lunatics"

 

Umm banner, apparently all the lunatics are calling Steve direct with their "concerns".

 

"CGC, Steve speaking"

 

"Hallow? Dis is Elroy. I dun butt me some of yer CGC becks, and ma friend Enus wuz spoutin off 'bout da big minus sign on da steeker. Weren't da moonshine talkin' neither and I'm mighteee riled at the guffawin' and da chuklin at dis "minused" ko-leck-teeee-bull'"

 

"Would BIG NUMBERS help and no more minuses?"

 

"Dang howdey it shurely wud. Youze city slickers done know yer stuff out der in Flor-eeeeee-duh."

 

- drops phone on dirt floor -

 

( I told's ya Enus!!)

 

 

ROFL big time!

[jonnydouble]

He would be on here 24-hours a day if he started responding/discussing/arguing with the "lunatics"

 

Umm banner, apparently all the lunatics are calling Steve direct with their "concerns".

 

"CGC, Steve speaking"

 

"Hallow? Dis is Elroy. I dun butt me some of yer CGC becks, and ma friend Enus wuz spoutin off 'bout da big minus sign on da steeker. Weren't da moonshine talkin' neither and I'm mighteee riled at the guffawin' and da chuklin at dis "minused" ko-leck-teeee-bull'"

 

"Would BIG NUMBERS help and no more minuses?"

 

"Dang howdey it shurely wud. Youze city slickers done know yer stuff out der in Flor-eeeeee-duh."

 

- drops phone on dirt floor -

 

( I told's ya Enus!!)

 

 

ROFL big time!

 

[Lantern]

Now that was funny.

 

 

 

[garthgantu]

This is not in response to anyone in particular...I just thought it would be a good time to interject this to keep the thread relevant....

 

The quick answer and bottom line here is that the grade needed to be bigger so people could see it from far away. It was a pain, at conventions, to see the grade on the label on a sellers wall from in front of their table. Also, Nomenclature was removed, not only to make the grade bigger but it was fast becoming absolete to many buyers of certified comics. When we give out grades over the phone we don't say 3.5 VG minus, we just say 3.5. It is very rare that I hear a customer talking to me about a grade and saying very fine to near mint, they just say 9.0. Finally, and you may not believe this, but we have gotten calls from people who are new to comics and hate anything with a minus next to it. One guy did not care that his book was a 3.5, he just did not understand why he had a minus sign, what he called a negitive, on his book.

 

 

 

Sborock 8/24/03

 

So can we revisit the notion that CGC isn't taking customer input into account on this? When I suggested that CGC should do so, I was laughed outta the thread... but apparently, in some limited form anyway, CGC sees value in customer feedback. But anecdotal data from a guy who doesn't like the "minus" next to his lovely 3.5 grade seems rather thin, even as a "just as one example." In that sense, would those of us who have slabbed books and DO like the "VF-" and other alpha notations have an opportunity to submit those sentiments to CGC in some form?

 

And it's also kinda silly to take such "calls and letters" at face value and decide that those squeaky wheels who dislike the alpha grades are speaking for a larger group; who's going to call CGC to let them know they LIKE the alpha grade, until such time as that grading info is no longer included?

 

As far as conventions and shops, and the difficulty in seeing the grading info from far away... this seems like a move that caters very directly to the kinds of buyers who are buying the label, not the comic...don't you think? I mean, what's the objective, to get those $500 or $5,000 or $50,000 books to become "impulse buys" in which the purchaser doesn't even need/want to look at the book? How hard is it to ask "what's the grade on that Avengers #4 ?" How did people ever purchase comics before CGC showed us how to properly package them? Sheesh.

 

"Fast becoming obsolete to many buyers of certified comics..." Hmmm.. well, this seems like rather short-sighted thinking on CGC's part... is the nomenclature fast becoming obsolete with the far greater body of people who haven't yet bought a certified comic? I don't think so. And if those people *prefer* the alpha nomenclature, or prefer to have that info in addition to the numeric grade, will they still be in the market for slabbed comics that don't include the alpha information, if/when they decide to buy a slabbed comic? I don't know, but I'm confused as to why CGC would want to take that risk with a large, untapped portion of the market.

[garthgantu]

I've been saying this for a year or more and getting called a "CGC apologist" for it...but I don't care, it's still true...the grading guidelines for the industry as a whole are too young and unrefined to hold CGC accountable for all the grading ills of the world. I can almost guarantee you that CGG, 3PG, and the company Hughes is rumored to be grading for will suffer the exact same problems as CGC for the exact same reason, which is that the "reach" (i.e. expectations) of the average high-end collector exceeds the "grasp" of the industry-standard (Overstreet) grading guidelines.

 

But FF, this is EXACTLY what worries me... do we really want CGC defining / determining the grading guidelines for comic books? They're already heading in this direction... And if the answer is "YES, please, give us 'standardized grading' from one impartial source," then I'm okay with that...except CGC has never been very forthcoming with their grading guidelines...they give us glimpses of the tail and the trunk, but they never unveil the entire beast to scrutiny...

[comicwiz]

Umm banner, apparently all the lunatics are calling Steve direct with their "concerns".

 

"CGC, Steve speaking"

 

"Hallow? Dis is Elroy. I dun butt me some of yer CGC becks, and ma friend Enus wuz spoutin off 'bout da big minus sign on da steeker. Weren't da moonshine talkin' neither and I'm mighteee riled at the guffawin' and da chuklin at dis "minused" ko-leck-teeee-bull'"

 

"Would BIG NUMBERS help and no more minuses?"

 

"Dang howdey it shurely wud. Youze city slickers done know yer stuff out der in Flor-eeeeee-duh."

 

- drops phone on dirt floor -

 

( I told's ya Enus!!)

 

While the horse is still batting its eyelash, and the vultures are distracted by the roadkill just over the hills, I figure nows as good a time as ever to ask: do you really think CGC cares that you won't be buying its product or service?

 

I've had my grievances with the CGC product in the past, and this new label concern of yours is pale in comparison. In the overall scheme, a collector/buyer can still reference a 3.5 in the price guide, and as long as there is no hinderance to this process, the CGC product/service will continue to evolve in the direction of satisfying business needs. The subject of this post actually changed my submission pattern, and forced me to stop submitting first printing underground comics that were not distinguishable by the front or rear cover. It didn't make sense for me to do otherwise -- without fail, I would always be asked to open the slab to proove the printing if it was not apparent through distinguishing cover features. My submission rate dropped from a projected 85% to a meager 2% that year! That would have translated into nearly US $8750 in submission fees alone.

 

Somewhere on this forum, Steve responded to my concerns, and even made a comment that it did not make good business sense to grade undergrounds between the amount of research time, and that it was standing firm with its decision to not make mention of printing information on the label, even though it had done so in the past. At the time, I didn't feel my consumer needs were being met, and it goes without say that I wasn't particularly happy about the outcome. Since then, I've learned to respect those same principles -- yes, CGC stands firmly by their product and service, even if that translates into not doing business with you, but they have demonstrated this, if nothing else, in a very consistent manner.

[FlyingDonut]

This is what I said about 400 posts ago - and I was promptly slapped around. I don't think they care if joe_collector doesn't use their services, and I think they probably don't care if "newbies" can't use their services.

 

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Its pretty much that simple.

[THE_BEYONDER]

This is what I said about 400 posts ago - and I was promptly slapped around. I don't think they care if joe_collector doesn't use their services, and I think they probably don't care if "newbies" can't use their services.

 

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Its pretty much that simple.

 

Is it? If I decide NOT to use CGC's services, will my comic collecting be unaffected by CGC?

[OldGuy]

He would be on here 24-hours a day if he started responding/discussing/arguing with the "lunatics"

 

Umm banner, apparently all the lunatics are calling Steve direct with their "concerns".

 

"CGC, Steve speaking"

 

"Hallow? Dis is Elroy. I dun butt me some of yer CGC becks, and ma friend Enus wuz spoutin off 'bout da big minus sign on da steeker. Weren't da moonshine talkin' neither and I'm mighteee riled at the guffawin' and da chuklin at dis "minused" ko-leck-teeee-bull'"

 

"Would BIG NUMBERS help and no more minuses?"

 

"Dang howdey it shurely wud. Youze city slickers done know yer stuff out der in Flor-eeeeee-duh."

 

- drops phone on dirt floor -

 

( I told's ya Enus!!)

 

 

That ends the fu.cking thread for me! Best post by far.

[joe_collector]

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Its pretty much that simple.

 

That's the same thing Microsoft supporters/fanboys say when anyone brings up issues with their software.

 

Unfortunately, when you're dealing with a virtual monopoly, the old "don't buy it" statement is simplistic at best.

[Mutantcollector]

You can technically say that have the alpha grade on the label is more information, but my point is that it doesn’t tell you any more information about the condition of the book. The “it’s taking away information” argument doesn’t make any sense to me because it’s not information that tells you anything more about the book. So what the argument comes down to is that you like seeing the alpha grade on the label. There is nothing wrong with this argument even if it is just personal preference.

 

What is the advantage of having the additional alpha grade? People like seeing and using the alpha grade. What is the disadvantage? People don’t like seeing and using the “minus” grade. What is the advantage of removing the alpha? People won’t have to see the “minus” grade. What is the disadvantage? People don’t get to see the alpha grade on the label. I just don’t see any clear advantage or disadvantage of having or not having the alpha grade on the label other then just personal preference.

 

[ArAich]

VF 8.0 = Industry Standard

8.0 = CGC Standard

 

'nuff said...

[Mutantcollector]

It's not removing information, the information is still provided by the number grade.

 

Prove it...What does a 3.5 mean???

 

Very Good -

 

 

But what is Very Good - ....and why are you using alpha terminology to explain what 3.5 means when the argument is that you don't need the alpha system???

 

I'm not really sure what point you are trying to make. If you wanted a detailed discripton of the grade, my answer would have been no different wether you had said "What does 3.5 mean?" or what does very good- 3.5 mean?" I answered very good- because I thought you were trying to make the point that people are used to the alpha grades and at some grades people don't have the translations in their head and may have to go look it up. 3.5 is not a grade I usually deal with so I had to look it up, and in doing so I realized that after looking at all of the translations for only a few seconds I now have almost all of them in my head. The reply was intened to show that making the translation is no big deal. I guess I missed you point.

[musicmeta]

You can technically say that have the alpha grade on the label is more information, but my point is that it doesn’t tell you any more information about the condition of the book. The “it’s taking away information” argument doesn’t make any sense to me because it’s not information that tells you anything more about the book. So what the argument comes down to is that you like seeing the alpha grade on the label. There is nothing wrong with this argument even if it is just personal preference.

 

What is the advantage of having the additional alpha grade? People like seeing and using the alpha grade. What is the disadvantage? People don’t like seeing and using the “minus” grade. What is the advantage of removing the alpha? People won’t have to see the “minus” grade. What is the disadvantage? People don’t get to see the alpha grade on the label. I just don’t see any clear advantage or disadvantage of having or not having the alpha grade on the label other then just personal preference.

 

I want to know how many thread were created when CGC first first came out with old label that had the alpha grade. I've been following these forums a little while and to the best of my knowledge, very few complained that the alpha grade WAS on the slab with the numeric grade. Other complaints about the label were made, but is there a post with over 400+ postings faulting CGC for having the alpha grade in the first place along side of the numeric grade. NM- has been around a whole lot longer than 9.2 I believe. YOU ARE STILL REMOVEING INFORMATION that helped make the label more easy to read.

[PovertyRow]

I just don’t see any clear advantage or disadvantage of having or not having the alpha grade on the label other then just personal preference.

 

It is the wedge opening the door another crack to a more sterile environment. It is playing to people who are so uninformed they perceive the minus sign as a negative trait.

[joe_collector]

What is the advantage of having the additional alpha grade?

 

It's a widely accepted standard in comic collecting and in use by just about everyone but CGC.

 

I mean, CGC could drop the numerical grade if they wanted to and just use a symbol for each grade, or a different color label, a secret code, Braile, or anything they want to. These methods would fall under the EXACT "presents the same info" argument you espouse, but I doubt they would be well received.

 

How you present relevant info is more important than the info you present.

 

For example, I have a new idea for a grading structure. Here's a grade that I understand fully, it presents all the required info, so it should be no problem for you to understand:

 

CGC AD36

 

Talk about HIGH GRADE!! Whoo-eeee!

[FlyingDonut]

This is what I said about 400 posts ago - and I was promptly slapped around. I don't think they care if joe_collector doesn't use their services, and I think they probably don't care if "newbies" can't use their services.

 

If you don't like it, don't buy it. Its pretty much that simple.

 

Is it? If I decide NOT to use CGC's services, will my comic collecting be unaffected by CGC?

 

YES.

 

You comic collecting is affected by CGC solely because you choose it to be. Were you a comic collector before CGC was around? CGC is a great service, don't get me wrong, and I think the world of them. They've provided significant input to the hobby, made my life a lot easier, and injected new blood into the marketplace.

 

That being said - if you don't want to use CGC's services, you can buy any number of the 99.5% of the rest of the comics being sold. If you want high grade, find a dealer you trust and buy from them. If you are using CGC for a restoration check, who cares what's on the label, as long as it is blue.