Anti-Nostalgia

[westform]

So nobody wants Robbin's art ?

Now i understand why i won this page for $15

 

What cost more, the shipping or the art?

 

to France...i'm betting on shipping!

[snappahead]

Mister Trent, what your'e saying is that it wasn't Ditko's art, but WHEN he worked on the book. If Romita had started with Amazing Fantasy 15, then Romita would be the unchallenged Spidey champ? Keep in mind that Stan had something to do with the creation of these characters too..it wasn't all Ditko or Romita. From a purely artistic standpoint, Romita rapes Ditko IMO.

 

Man, I know what you mean westform. Those JIM's are painful to look at at times. Chic Stone should've been a perminent inker on JIM. Sinnott on FF. Check out the early New Gods too. You can REALLY tell when Royer takes over. Colletta was working his unholy magic on the first few issues and than bam...Royer's beautiful work kciks in and it's a real sight for sore eyes.

[westform]

I read that Chic Stone left because Stan wouldn't let him pencil.... and I guess the inking pay rate just wasnt cutting it. Too bad, I say, let him pencil anything just to keep him on Thor inking.

[KingOfRulers]

I think that Chic Stone was the single best Kirby inker.

 

As for Ditko versus Romita--both are great. I don't think Romita is really any better then Ditko overall. I think Ditko was probably better at telling a story with art then Romita was. As far as telling a Spidey story goes, I think Ditko is probably the single best. Romita's art might have been more polished, but I don't think it was as fluid as Ditko's work.

 

Both are great artists. They are just different. I think the real contrast is between Ditko's art and modern art...say a New Avengers with Finch art. Finch is a great artist, but a HORRIBLE story teller with his art. You can understand the story in a Spidey book with Ditko art, even if there was no text. In a New Avengers book it is tough to understand with the text. I think many new artists forget that they are conveying a message through art, and just concentrate on fancy poses.

[tth2]

So nobody wants Robbin's art ?

Now i understand why i won this page for $15

I'll pay you $30 (100% profit for you) to now burn it!

[KingOfRulers]

Interesting subject. I have an opposite reaction that you have. I HATED Robbins when I was a kid and cringed any time I opened a comic to discover he'd drawn it, but now I actually like the stuff. Can't explain it. It's true for a couple other guys too. Never cared for Perez if you can believe it when I was younger..thought his art was dull. I know! Now, I can't understand why, but when I was young, I felt that way. Herb Trimpe has grown on me too. Again, can't explain why.

Perez is my single favorite artist of all time. I've never heard of anyone saying his art was dull That's baffles me When I think of Bronze Age art I think of five guys that composed the golden standard (at least as far as Marvel goes): Bob Layton, Dave Cockrum, John Romita JR and George Perez. People might still point to Kirby, but I think Kirby's stuff from the 60's to 70's was like night and day. His work is great in the 60's, but I think is work in the 70's is horrid.

 

Maybe it's because I missed the 60's but, I can't figure out how anyone could prefer Ditko over Romita. Ditko was good at certain things, but I never thought he was right for Spidey..sue me..

 

See my last post

 

King, I want you take that back about McGuinness . I love Ed's work:)

What? I thought that was impossible for someone to like his work. I thought at best people tolerated him until he went to another book

 

I might have anti nostalgia for Colletta though. Still hate that guys work. Maybe the only guy who's work I can't stand. That could just be because he butchered so much Kirby art and I'm a huge Kirby fan.

 

Speaking of fill-ins, I remember Mike Mignola did a fill-in for Rob Liefeld on an early issue of X Force and I was PISSED! ..Can you imagine...being pissed when Mignola fills in for Liefeld. Mignola's another guy I like alot now, but hated back in the day.

 

People really bash Colletta. I see him as just another one in the bunch. Just average.

[snappahead]

Man, King, we'll have to agree to disagree on ALOT . I agree with you on Perez and thsoe other guys now. But when I was younger..not so much. I love Kirby's later art though. It's just fun stuff to me. It looks like he's really having fun and letting his creative juices flow. I always get a kick outta that stuff. Especially helps that Royer did such a great job inking him. I think Royer stayed truer to Kirby than any other inker. Some say that's a bad thing, but not me.

 

You kiddin? There's a *spoon* load of Ed fans. Go to a con and check out the lines for this cat. He's very popular.

 

Colletta blows..It's been a proven to be a fact.

 

Agree with you on Chic...Disagree on the Ditko/ Romita thing. It's all good though. This has been a debate for decades. We can't win:)

 

I hear you on Finch. He does great pin ups and covers and does nice individual panels, but the flow of his pages and his overall storytelling is pretty bad. It's funny that the most important aspect of a comic can be overlooked like that. Go figure. Neal Adams proved that you can be creative and innovative with panel layouts and still tell a good story. Alot of guys still struggle with that though.

[KingOfRulers]

Man, I just don't get it Kirby's later stuff I find so, so bad. It is ultra blocky. It is overly inked. There are miscellanous squiggly lines everywhere. Check some of his Silver Surfer or Iron Man illustrations from the 1970's. No matter what angle, there will always be a squiggly line going up from Silver Surfer's brow to the top of his head, and another from the bottom of his chin to his bottom lip. I hate those squggly lines everywhere!

 

I don't understand how people like McGuiness. I am ready to say that he is among the worst major mainstream artist out there right now.

 

As for Colletta, he gets a bad reputation, but is it all deserved? From what I hear he was the man to turn to when a deadline had to be met. He was the guy who got the job done in a snap. He did what he had to do, to get the job done in time.

 

I think modern books in general forget about story telling. I have no idea why. It is very rare that the artists are good at conveying a message in current books. They are excellent at creating polished poses, but that's it. Some are good at both, but in general I'd definitely say not. Yes, Neal Adams is good. I don't idolize him like many do, because I have barely seen any of his work since he was mainly a DC guy. He should've worked for Marvel more so he could have the honor of being in the list of one of my favorites! I bet he can't even sleep at night, knowing that's he not though

[vodou]

Frank R. is a good example for me too. There was a dps from Captain America that was for sale a couple of times on ebay, but I had to pass because I just remember being so dissapointed when he took over Cap from Sal Buscema. Funny thing is, now that I look with different, older eyes, I can appreciate somewhat Frank Robbins distinctive style; and the dps was gorgeous! But, it would just bug me too much to have it staring at me every day so I had to pass.

 

Oh that same Robbins dps haunts me. I missed it the first time it was listed and the second time the price just got out of control. Shoulda coulda woulda.

 

 

I know it's blasphemy but growing up with Zeck's Captain America made Sal's stuff look like *spoon*. His "upside-down smile as rage" static facial really got to me.

 

 

I'd trade a good Sal Cap for a good Zeck Cap any day.

[Mister Trent]

Mister Trent, what your'e saying is that it wasn't Ditko's art, but WHEN he worked on the book. If Romita had started with Amazing Fantasy 15, then Romita would be the unchallenged Spidey champ? Keep in mind that Stan had something to do with the creation of these characters too..it wasn't all Ditko or Romita. From a purely artistic standpoint, Romita rapes Ditko IMO.

 

No, you're trying to put words into my mouth. I'm actually a big fan of Ditko's art.

 

What I'm saying is that Ditko CO-CREATED (with Lee) Spidey's formative years.

 

If Romita had been on the book from it's first appearance (via AF # 15), I very much doubt that we would have the enduring villains and characters we have. IMHO, Ditko played a big part in the really enduring side of ASM.

 

Like I said, other than the Kingpin, how many enduring villains are there from Romita's Tenure?

 

Romita rapes Ditko, you say?

 

No way. You're talking out your backside.

[Kevin76]

Mister Trent, what your'e saying is that it wasn't Ditko's art, but WHEN he worked on the book. If Romita had started with Amazing Fantasy 15, then Romita would be the unchallenged Spidey champ? Keep in mind that Stan had something to do with the creation of these characters too..it wasn't all Ditko or Romita. From a purely artistic standpoint, Romita rapes Ditko IMO.

 

No, you're trying to put words into my mouth. I'm actually a big fan of Ditko's art.

 

What I'm saying is that Ditko CO-CREATED (with Lee) Spidey's formative years.

 

If Romita had been on the book from it's first appearance (via AF # 15), I very much doubt that we would have the enduring villains and characters we have. IMHO, Ditko played a big part in the really enduring side of ASM.

 

Like I said, other than the Kingpin, how many enduring villains are there from Romita's Tenure?

 

Romita rapes Ditko, you say?

 

No way. You're talking out your backside.

I was never a fan of Ditko's art, I guess it's an aquired taste I guess.I'd much rather have a Mcfarlane Spidey splash,than a Ditko one,I'd also rather have a Romita Splash than a Ditko one also and a mcfarlane one more so than than Ditko and Romita,put together.Even though Ditko and Romita are both technically better.

[tth2]

Frank R. is a good example for me too. There was a dps from Captain America that was for sale a couple of times on ebay, but I had to pass because I just remember being so dissapointed when he took over Cap from Sal Buscema. Funny thing is, now that I look with different, older eyes, I can appreciate somewhat Frank Robbins distinctive style; and the dps was gorgeous! But, it would just bug me too much to have it staring at me every day so I had to pass.

 

Oh that same Robbins dps haunts me. I missed it the first time it was listed and the second time the price just got out of control. Shoulda coulda woulda.

 

Thanks for posting this. It's a bit over 30 years now since I was first exposed to Frank Robbins' art, and I can now confirm that yep, I still hate it with a passion.

[Artemaria]

Frank R. is a good example for me too. There was a dps from Captain America that was for sale a couple of times on ebay, but I had to pass because I just remember being so dissapointed when he took over Cap from Sal Buscema. Funny thing is, now that I look with different, older eyes, I can appreciate somewhat Frank Robbins distinctive style; and the dps was gorgeous! But, it would just bug me too much to have it staring at me every day so I had to pass.

 

Oh that same Robbins dps haunts me. I missed it the first time it was listed and the second time the price just got out of control. Shoulda coulda woulda.

 

Thanks for posting this. It's a bit over 30 years now since I was first exposed to Frank Robbins' art, and I can now confirm that yep, I still hate it with a passion.

 

Don't hate it with a passion. Just don't think it is that good. Robbins seems like he is trying to crib too much from too many different sources (angular poses from Kane, funky techno backgrounds and dramatic lighting from Steranko, super broad shoulders from J.Buscema), but ends up just looking like Jack Davis from MAD magazine.

 

I know people paid good money for this piece, but I wouldn't take it if it came free with a tube of toothpaste.

[Mister Trent]

Mister Trent, what your'e saying is that it wasn't Ditko's art, but WHEN he worked on the book. If Romita had started with Amazing Fantasy 15, then Romita would be the unchallenged Spidey champ? Keep in mind that Stan had something to do with the creation of these characters too..it wasn't all Ditko or Romita. From a purely artistic standpoint, Romita rapes Ditko IMO.

 

No, you're trying to put words into my mouth. I'm actually a big fan of Ditko's art.

 

What I'm saying is that Ditko CO-CREATED (with Lee) Spidey's formative years.

 

If Romita had been on the book from it's first appearance (via AF # 15), I very much doubt that we would have the enduring villains and characters we have. IMHO, Ditko played a big part in the really enduring side of ASM.

 

Like I said, other than the Kingpin, how many enduring villains are there from Romita's Tenure?

 

Romita rapes Ditko, you say?

 

No way. You're talking out your backside.

I was never a fan of Ditko's art, I guess it's an aquired taste I guess.I'd much rather have a Mcfarlane Spidey splash,than a Ditko one,I'd also rather have a Romita Splash than a Ditko one also and a mcfarlane one more so than than Ditko and Romita,put together.Even though Ditko and Romita are both technically better.

 

Each to his own. McFarlane's art is uglier than the Hulk.

[KingOfRulers]

I don't think McFarlane's art is ugly. But definitely not as good as Ditko or Romita.

[Mister Trent]

I don't think McFarlane's art is ugly. But definitely not as good as Ditko or Romita.

 

Beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

 

Some people like women with surgically-enhanced titties.

 

I like natural titties.

 

To me, a pair of silicone titties, with ugly scar tissue looks repulsive . . .

[BrianR]

Frank R. is a good example for me too. There was a dps from Captain America that was for sale a couple of times on ebay, but I had to pass because I just remember being so dissapointed when he took over Cap from Sal Buscema. Funny thing is, now that I look with different, older eyes, I can appreciate somewhat Frank Robbins distinctive style; and the dps was gorgeous! But, it would just bug me too much to have it staring at me every day so I had to pass.

 

Oh that same Robbins dps haunts me. I missed it the first time it was listed and the second time the price just got out of control. Shoulda coulda woulda.

 

Thanks for posting this. It's a bit over 30 years now since I was first exposed to Frank Robbins' art, and I can now confirm that yep, I still hate it with a passion.

 

Don't hate it with a passion. Just don't think it is that good. Robbins seems like he is trying to crib too much from too many different sources (angular poses from Kane, funky techno backgrounds and dramatic lighting from Steranko, super broad shoulders from J.Buscema), but ends up just looking like Jack Davis from MAD magazine.

 

I know people paid good money for this piece, but I wouldn't take it if it came free with a tube of toothpaste.

 

I saw that peice on ebay and wished I had the money to buy it. I actually like Robbins work. It different. Kinda strange but in a good way.

[rjpb]

I hated Robbins as a kid, but also kind of like it now - except for the awkward leg poses he seemed fond of. But if I were going to collect OA - I'd look for a nice Johnny Hazard piece from the 40s or 50s.

 

as for Spider-man - love Diko and Romita - but McFarlane's style is too "cute" for my taste, especially the early stuff - it looked more suited a funny animal book than a superhero comic.

[adamstrange]

I think that Chic Stone was the single best Kirby inker.

 

As for Ditko versus Romita--both are great. I don't think Romita is really any better then Ditko overall. I think Ditko was probably better at telling a story with art then Romita was. As far as telling a Spidey story goes, I think Ditko is probably the single best. Romita's art might have been more polished, but I don't think it was as fluid as Ditko's work.

 

Both are great artists. They are just different. I think the real contrast is between Ditko's art and modern art...say a New Avengers with Finch art. Finch is a great artist, but a HORRIBLE story teller with his art. You can understand the story in a Spidey book with Ditko art, even if there was no text. In a New Avengers book it is tough to understand with the text. I think many new artists forget that they are conveying a message through art, and just concentrate on fancy poses.

 

Some well thought out remarks, KoR. There are many aspects to art and no artist will excel at all of them. Combine that with the need to tell stories and whole other dimensions open up that don't apply to single image artworks (paintings, illustrations etc.). In recently looking back at some Spidey stories you can see the solid story-telling, villain design, and creativity that Ditko brought to the early stories. Folks are still building off that legacy 40 years later. At the same time, I think you can see peaks and valleys in his work with his high point probably being issues 31 - 33, imho.

 

Regarding Colleta, I think that his careless work in the late 60s and early 70s colors the perception of his much better earlier work. He was a good artist in his own right -- I have seen quite a few Atlas romance books by him that I like a good deal better than any Kirby romance book. And he did a reasonable job inking on the JIM and early Thor issues.

[Kevin76]

I hated Robbins as a kid, but also kind of like it now - except for the awkward leg poses he seemed fond of. But if I were going to collect OA - I'd look for a nice Johnny Hazard piece from the 40s or 50s.

 

as for Spider-man - love Diko and Romita - but McFarlane's style is too "cute" for my taste, especially the early stuff - it looked more suited a funny animal book than a superhero comic.

Mcfarlane's art just looks cool,plain and simple...his storytelling (well he gets by) and anatomy sucks but you honestly can't look at the cover to Spider-Man #1 or ASM #316 and say that doesn't look cool. The Hulk isn't ugly,he's awesome.