What are the "Lower print" ASM's? - Later 1990's

[Warlord]

I just sent my 432 wanted version to lonestar for $20 in trade, I figured that was pretty unbeatable, what do they usually sell for?

 

Whoa! I picked up my copy for about a buck and a half. Score!

[ASM-completist]

526: (January 2006).html: Title: Amazing Spider-Man (Marvel) Rank: 158 Qty: 9,000

 

 

 

 

[Spider-Variant]

526: (January 2006).html: Title: Amazing Spider-Man (Marvel) Rank: 158 Qty: 9,000

 

 

 

 

 

That's the Variant cover.

[comix4fun]

Exactly. Read his comments again.

 

MT started in 1966, and was there ever a time when ONLY Amazing and PP were published, with no other Spidey mags? Hardly a "lot of years" for either example.

 

I'm also forgetting about the Super Spidey Stories.

 

I was talking about books that share an ongoing continuity not a reprint mag.

 

When the entire main Spider-man story was being forwarded and told in a single book and it was not until 1976 (spectacular) when you had a companion title that served to go hand in hand continuity-wise with ASM (as MTU was more peripheral)....you had more copies of that single book being sold.

 

Flash forward to today and the continuity is split between 5 and 8 comics depending on the exact year in question. If you added up the print runs of all those books you would see where the readers are for the story. Simply because the main ASM numbers are down does not mean the entire franchise is down overall.

 

In my comparison these were the same stories put under new title. I was trying to compare apples to apples. And by this I mean when you have 6-7 titles all running the same storyline and forwarding the same continuity in an ongoing manner.

 

That was why I did not include Marvel Tales.

 

And Ugh...Spidey-Super Stories....hardly a continuity moving title that was a regular pick up for the ASM readers. It doesn't help if you are trying to determine if readership of ASM has fallen off or if it is strong but split amongst 8 titles.

 

Until 1972 you had only ASM, Then you had MTU (which seemed to exist in it's own continuity but we can include it as they were at least new stories), then you had to wait until 1976 to get Spectacular up and running as a true companion title to ASM.

 

Flash forward to 2005 thru today you had the following titles running:

 

Main continuity: Amazing Fantasy • The Amazing Spider-Man •

The Sensational Spider-Man (vol. 2) • Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man • Spider-Man Family • Web of Spider-Man • The Spectacular Spider-Man

 

Other continuities: Ultimate Spider-Man • Marvel Adventures Spider-Man • Spider-Girl • Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane

 

So if you want to get a true sense if the Spider-Man character is faltering now or if he is more popular than ever but split amongst almost a dozen titles it is a good idea to look at them all and weigh sales figures for all the titles that tell the story.

 

Chris

[brasseye]

wow! Who would have thought 2005 had less sales then any other year!

 

As I've been saying for-like-ever, the majority of individual comic sales are down, but Marvel keeps jacking the cover price to increase profits.

 

It's even worse, as those new figures are based on "comic book shop sales" rather than true sales, as the older ones are.

 

whats the difference in measurement basis? Are looking lower, or higher than previus methods?

[joe_collector]

I was talking about books that share an ongoing continuity not a reprint mag.

 

 

Back in the 70's Stan classified Marvel Tales as "a Spidey mag" and so do I. Back then, very few adult nerds were up in arms over continuity, and those MT issues were big sellers, draining away the available "Spidey comic dollars" in the same way. If a character headlines a comic, it qualifies.

 

When I was a kid, I bought ALL the Spider-man books religiously, including Amazing, Marvel Tales, MTU, PPSSM and the myriad Giant-Size issues and Annuals. I didn't give a *spoon* about "continuity", I just wanted to read about Spidey. I even picked up the odd Spidey Super Stories.

 

And as for Marvel Team-up not being part of continuity, what comics were you buying? I suggest you re-read the early MTU's and you'll see all the supporting players, events like Gwen Stacy's death impacting him, timelines matching up, etc.

[joe_collector]

whats the difference in measurement basis?

 

You actually don't know the difference between newstand and the Direct Market?

 

Okay...

 

Newstand sales, which were how virtually all comics were distributed until around 79-81, means the READER is the CUSTOMER, Books are distributed, the reader chooses to buy or not, and the rest are sent back. Back in the day, distributors would have comics "fall off the back of a truck" to comic stores, artificially lowering reported newstand sales.

 

The Direct Market switches that 180-degrees, and now the STORE is the CUSTOMER. Stores buy comics from the publishers at a discount, and then attempt to resell those to readers/collectors. Naturally, the store owns the books, so they eat the unsold copies.

 

What this means is that the Direct Market will ALWAYS post inflated sales totals compared to the old newstand model, as there has never been a month where ALL comics were resold to readers or collectors, and there never will be.

 

How inflated is the question, but it also brings up the spectre of those horrible "variant covers", where store owners are sold 1 variant per ever XXX regular issue, and since the variants can be resold for $$$, they over-order and toss the regular issue in a landfill, inflating the numbers even more. Also, since these are not returnable, none "fall off the truck" as unreported sales.

 

But at the end of the day, it comes down to who buys the books and is the end user for the publisher. In the newstand days, it was you and me, but under the DM, it's the comic store.

 

Huge difference in how sales are reported. One is real, and the other can be inflated by a number of factors.

[comix4fun]

I was talking about books that share an ongoing continuity not a reprint mag.

 

 

Back in the 70's Stan classified Marvel Tales as "a Spidey mag" and so do I. Back then, very few adult nerds were up in arms over continuity, and those MT issues were big sellers, draining away the available "Spidey comic dollars" in the same way. If a character headlines a comic, it qualifies.

 

When I was a kid, I bought ALL the Spider-man books religiously, including Amazing, Marvel Tales, MTU, PPSSM and the myriad Giant-Size issues and Annuals. I didn't give a *spoon* about "continuity", I just wanted to read about Spidey. I even picked up the odd Spidey Super Stories.

 

And as for Marvel Team-up not being part of continuity, what comics were you buying? I suggest you re-read the early MTU's and you'll see all the supporting players, events like Gwen Stacy's death impacting him, timelines matching up, etc.

 

 

I was making a point that in telling the main Spidey story....you have over 10 comics doing that now. Add up all those comics and you have alot of comics being printed. If we want to talk about whether Spidey has fallen off in popularity you have to start at how many comics are being printed in total and not simply comparing ASM print run to ASM print run when there are several titles "helping" tell his story and spreading the print runs today that did not exist in the past.

 

So include Team Up and ASM as telling the Main Spidey Story and then include Spectacular after 1976 and you have 2 comics in the first 10 years, and 3 comics from 1976 to the early 80's whereas now you have over 10 telling the same story. It would make sense that overall "Spidey's per month" would increase even if a single title does not.

 

You might only have 75,000 of the main title being printed but you are selling 5-6 times that on a monthly basis to tell the story of this character.

 

That was all I was saying.

 

C

[ASM-completist]

526: (January 2006).html: Title: Amazing Spider-Man (Marvel) Rank: 158 Qty: 9,000

 

 

 

 

 

That's the Variant cover.

 

Still a low print run.

 

[joe_collector]

That was all I was saying.

 

And all I'm saying that back then, kids didn't give a rat's hass about that BS, and just wanted to read Spidey stories, reprint, new or team-up. Check out the sales if you don't believe me, even the MT reprints sold well.

 

And BTW, what are these 10 monthly comic books that the original MU Spider-man headlines? I looked through the Diamond List for May 2007, and found FOUR.

 

Sure, there were some Annuals, but in the 70's there were tons of Giant-Size and Annuals, and they're not monthly so naturally don't qualify. Obviously, cross-overs wouldn't either, and neither would mini-series.

 

So where are you getting 10 MONTHLY SPIDER-MAN MU COMIC BOOKS from?

[comix4fun]

So where are you getting 10 MONTHLY SPIDER-MAN MU COMIC BOOKS from?

 

Actually I said it was split between 5 and 8 titles regularly but I will endulge you.

 

These were all monthly ongoing series in 2005, which was the time period referenced in the original post, talking about ASM sales numbers in 2005.

 

Regular Continuity:

1)Amazing Fantasy •

2) The Amazing Spider-Man •

3) The Sensational Spider-Man (vol. 2) •

4) Friendly Neighborhood Spider-Man •

5)Web of Spider-Man •

6) The Spectacular Spider-Man

 

Other continuities (including kids books like your Super Stories used to be)

7)Ultimate Spider-Man •

8)Marvel Adventures Spider-Man •

9) Spider-Girl (all the characters and crossovers)

10) Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane

 

C

[comix4fun]

Oh and I forgot

 

 

Marvel Knights Spider-Man

 

and

 

Spider-Man Unlimited.

 

 

As well, there were 14 different one shots and mini-series started or released in 2005 as well, but we aren't talking about those.

 

Chris

[joe_collector]

Who cares about 2005, my question had nothing to do with print runs, nothing to do with 2005, but your assertion that Spidey now has 10 books in regular continuity.

 

I was making a point that in telling the main Spidey story....you have over 10 comics doing that now.

 

P,S. Naturally, as per your comment, only MARVEL UNIVERSE SPIDEY need apply - no USM or alternate universe BS, as none of those existed in the 60's, 70's or 80's. .

[Spider-Variant]

526: (January 2006).html: Title: Amazing Spider-Man (Marvel) Rank: 158 Qty: 9,000

 

 

 

 

 

That's the Variant cover.

 

Still a low print run.

 

 

Agreed, I'd be curious on the 528 sketch numbers and the 538 1:50 numbers.

[comix4fun]

Who cares about 2005, my question had nothing to do with print runs, nothing to do with 2005, but your assertion that Spidey now has 10 books in regular continuity.

 

I was making a point that in telling the main Spidey story....you have over 10 comics doing that now.

 

P,S. Naturally, as per your comment, only MARVEL UNIVERSE SPIDEY need apply - no USM or alternate universe BS, as none of those existed in the 60's, 70's or 80's. .

 

 

Actually I said 5-8 at any given time but you chose the "10" anyway....it was actually in the post you responded to.

 

And when I said 10 I was talking about 10 spidey titles being published and you tried to stick words in my mouth about MU and not USM or whatever. That was why I specifically identified 5-8 at any given time over those years.

 

And the thread you are posting in and the discussion of "what happened to spidey's print runs" where directly predicated from the posting of print runs on ASM up to and including 2005...which was the last data submitted in that post.

 

It's easier to do that admitting that there are alot more spidey titles today than in the 60's or 70's.

 

I get it.... doesn't work and the evidence could hit you like but you will toss it aside. So take my posts as a nevermind...you didn't seem to get them anyway.

 

C

[joe_collector]

Typical Modern readers. I ask questions and get emoticons in response.

 

Okay, I'll accept your excuse for the "10", but what are the 5-8 MU Spider-man monthly headline comics books TODAY?

 

And once again, I didn't post ANY 2005 data, so let's start over with a NEW question. How many monthly MU Spider-man headliner titles does Marvel have today?

 

I simply went to Diamond's Top 300 and could only find FOUR Marvel Universe Spidey books, or about the same as there was in the 70's and 80's continuity.

[Warlord]

Typical Modern readers. I ask questions and get emoticons in response.

 

Okay, I'll accept your excuse for the "10", but what are the 5-8 MU Spider-man monthly headline comics books TODAY?

 

And once again, I didn't post ANY 2005 data, so let's start over with a NEW question. How many monthly MU Spider-man headliner titles does Marvel have today?

 

I simply went to Diamond's Top 300 and could only find FOUR Marvel Universe Spidey books, or about the same as there was in the 70's and 80's continuity.

 

I'm not going to join into the debate because I just don't follow all the SM books anymore, but I will highlight the point that YOU, JC, are the one who is trying to define comix4fun's comments about 5-8 titles as being limited to only include "MU". C4F didn't use that term and you didn't ask what C4F intended in the statement that he made. The only qualifier used that I spotted was a vague reference to "main" Spider-Man storylines. So you are making that assumption. Maybe a good one in your mind, but at the same time you point out that even you used to buy any titles that had Spider-Man in them, and didn't care whether they were reprints or in continuity or whatever it was you said didn't matter in your selection. So that position weakens the assumption that you made about C4F's statement. BTW, back in the day I did the same -and pretty much bought anything that featured Spider-Man whether it was in new or reprint, continuity or not, or whether it was an imaginary story or a hoax. Oh, wait, that was the Superman titles. Strike that last part.

 

That being said, I'll go back to lurking while we wait to see if anyone wants to discuss your NEW question.

[joe_collector]

but I will highlight the point that YOU, JC, are the one who is trying to define comix4fun's comments about 5-8 titles as being limited to only include "MU".

 

Nope. Go reread his comments, and he clearly states that back in the day you only had to read 2-3 monthly Spidey comics, but to get the SAME in-continuity story, you'd need to buy 5-8 issues. Remember, this is nothing to do with raw sales, but the idea that Spidey fans in 1970 only had to buy a few comics to "keep up with Spidey", while readers in 2007 have to buy more comics to cover the same story, and that this had lowered individual title sales.

 

It might be a valid point, but how anyone could view a 1970's to 2000's Spider-man "how many monthly books does it take to tell the story?" comparison to include USM is pretty freaking bizarre.

 

You do realize that USM didn't exist in the 70's right?

 

I am making up nothing in this discussion, and appreciate the now-and-then comparison, but simply have trouble with the numbers.

[Warlord]

but I will highlight the point that YOU, JC, are the one who is trying to define comix4fun's comments about 5-8 titles as being limited to only include "MU".

 

Nope. Go reread his comments, and he clearly states that back in the day you only had to read 2-3 monthly Spidey comics, but to get the SAME in-continuity story, you'd need to buy 5-8 issues.

 

I am making up nothing in this discussion, and appreciate the now-and-then comparison, but simply have trouble with the numbers.

 

I was talking about books that share an ongoing continuity not a reprint mag.

 

When the entire main Spider-man story was being forwarded and told in a single book and it was not until 1976 (spectacular) when you had a companion title that served to go hand in hand continuity-wise with ASM (as MTU was more peripheral)....you had more copies of that single book being sold.

 

Flash forward to today and the continuity is split between 5 and 8 comics depending on the exact year in question. If you added up the print runs of all those books you would see where the readers are for the story. Simply because the main ASM numbers are down does not mean the entire franchise is down overall.

 

Again, I don't see any specific words that necessarily limit his comments to "Marvel Universe" SM. That was your choice of wording to limit the titles involved in the discussion. The original reference was imprecise. You are attempting to infer what was meant, no problem with that. I'm just pointing out that the original poster didn't say what SM titles were specifically included or excluded in regards to his then and now comments.

[joe_collector]

Regardless, anyone who tries to make a comparison to the overall Spider-man story in the 70's to the same thing in 2007, while including USM, is a total *spoon*.

 

And to his credit, I don't think the OP was saying that.