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THE PQ IS WHITE....WHAT'S THE QP?

Started by THE_BEYONDER,

142 posts in this topic

fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Would you rather have a CGC 9.8 with a QP of 9.2, or a CGC 9.2 with a QP of 9.8? 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

I myself would rather have the latter, but if a grader provides QP as a sub-grade of the main overall grade, you're able to make your own decision.

 

I've posted these plugs before, but this is what is superior about the way NewKadia and Pop Culture Certified grade--they give you sub-grades for several grading categories they identify. The biggest mistake these two companies have made is not adopting the Overstreet/CGC 25-notch grading scale...there's no reason they couldn't have used them, and their customers would have an easier time interpreting their grades if they did use that scale.

 

Here's a link to the grading categories used by NewKadia: http://newkadia.com/H/6.html

 

And here's one for Pop Culture Certified: http://www.popculturecertified.com/SAMPLE/000001.html

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

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I'd give it a 10.0, but there is the slightest bit of white showing at the bottom of the spine..... tongue.gif

 

Overstreet and CGC allow for 1/32" of miswrap in the 10.0 grade. Is your QP scale more strict than that?

 

How can a QP 10.0 have a 1/32" miswrap? That would defeat the purpose of assigning 10.0's....

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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How can a QP 10.0 have a 1/32" miswrap? That would defeat the purpose of assigning 10.0's....

 

Earlier in this thread, I was getting the QP confused with the overall grade. Taking QP as a separate number that is a subcategory of overall grade, a book with a 1/32" miswrap should not get a 10.0 QP rating, but when factored into overall grade, it wouldn't have enough of an impact to go lower than 10.0. At least, that's what the Overstreet standards say by my interpretation. Certainly CGC allows it because I've seen a 10.0 with a 1/32" miswrap.

 

If you disagree with the Overstreet/CGC standard--and I'm not sure I don't disagree myself--might I suggest that one trap you don't want to fall into is to think that QP is the only subcategory of overall grade. Another collector named Nick Pope, who is on the ebay forums as "gifflefunk," has devised what I believe to be the most detailed taxonomy/hierarchy of comic book grading defect categories on the planet. In the current version of his taxonomy, he has 10 major grading categories.

 

If we assume for the moment that QP is only one of ten subcategories, how low would the QP have to be for this 1/32" miswrap before it knocks the overall grade down? If all nine other categories get a 10.0 score, and we assume that all subcategories contribute equally to grade, then here is how overall grade would fare given a variable QP:

 

  • ( (10.0 score * 9 defect categories) + 10.0 QP score) / 10 total categories = 10.00 overall score
  • ( (10.0 score * 9 defect categories) + 9.8 QP score) / 10 total categories = 9.98 overall score
  • ( (10.0 score * 9 defect categories) + 9.6 QP score) / 10 total categories = 9.96 overall score
  • ( (10.0 score * 9 defect categories) + 9.4 QP score) / 10 total categories = 9.94 overall score
  • ( (10.0 score * 9 defect categories) + 9.2 QP score) / 10 total categories = 9.92 overall score
  • ( (10.0 score * 9 defect categories) + 9.0 QP score) / 10 total categories = 9.90 overall score

So, if you think the QP for a 1/32" miswrap is 9.4 or lower, then you're right, overall grade shouldn't be 10.0. However, if after comparing a 1/32" miswrap against all other possible QP defects, you judge that the QP shouldn't be lower than 9.6, then the overall grade using a scale with one decimal point of precision rounds up to 10.0.

 

So...what do you think the QP should be on a book with a 1/32" miswrap?

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

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So...what do you think the QP should be on a book with a 1/32" miswrap?

 

If this was the only defect ....9.9

 

The scale doesn't necessarily move .1 per "defect", but I don't want to give a book a QP 10.0 if that book isn't " perfect".

 

What will we ALLOW in a QP 10.0..... 893scratchchin-thumb.gif

 

Definately not a noticable production defect.

 

Keep in mind,

 

I only started this thread to hear what other forum members thought about the impact of production defects , and to try and figure out what the best way to GRADE them would be.

 

I don't want CGC to incorporate production defects into their current grading standards. I want CGC's grade to reflect the CONDITION of my book in reference to handling & wear .

 

Ideally, I would like CGC's label to tell me Three Things:

 

  • The "condition" of my book
  • The Page Quality of my book
  • The Quality of Production

 

 

" Buy the book, not the label "?

 

Why doesn't CGC provide it's customers with as much information as possible .......so we can actually USE the label, to buy our books? confused-smiley-013.gif

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Ideally, I would like CGC's label to tell me Three Things:

 

  • The "condition" of my book
  • The Page Quality of my book
  • The Quality of Production

 

But page quality is factored in. Why shouldn't the quality of production be factored in?

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

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Ideally, I would like CGC's label to tell me Three Things:

 

  • The "condition" of my book
  • The Page Quality of my book
  • The Quality of Production

 

But page quality is factored in. Why shouldn't the quality of production be factored in?

 

I thought it had been established that PQ did not affect the CGC grade? confused.gif

 

 

 

 

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greggy

greggy

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I thought it had been established that PQ did not affect the CGC grade?

Ever see a 9.4 book with brittle pages. CGC has a range of acceptable PQ for a book in a certain grade according to what Steve B. and Mark Haspel said in SD. They said that a 9.4 book can't have cream pages (I know that FF said that he has seen one with that PQ but..). That is how it is factored in the grade. They said that with the early labels, they would only list the PQ if the PQ was less than what would be expected in that grade. That in itself may explain why a 9.4 book did get through with cream pages. However, I don't know if the lines are that strict nowadays as that 9.4 book with cream pages appears to be quite unique! thumbsup2.gif
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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

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I thought it had been established that PQ did not affect the CGC grade?

Ever see a 9.4 book with brittle pages. CGC has a range of acceptable PQ for a book in a certain grade according to what Steve B. and Mark Haspel said in SD. They said that a 9.4 book can't have cream pages (I know that FF said that he has seen one with that PQ but..). That is how it is factored in the grade. They said that with the early labels, they would only list the PQ if the PQ was less than what would be expected in that grade. That in itself may explain why a 9.4 book did get through with cream pages. However, I don't know if the lines are that strict nowadays as that 9.4 book with cream pages appears to be quite unique! thumbsup2.gif

 

Is a CGC 9.4 with Offwhite pages in better " condition " than a CGC 9.4 with White pages?

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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They said that with the early labels, they would only list the PQ if the PQ was less than what would be expected in that grade. That in itself may explain why a 9.4 book did get through with cream pages.

 

That's a distinct possibility. The FF #8 CGC 9.4 I saw with Cream pages was on Jay Parrino's web site for a year or more in late 2000/early 2001, Mark Wilson bought it from him and parked it on his site for a while, and finally he dumped it on ebay in November 2002. A lot of the books Parrino sold around then were some of the first ever slabbed.

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fantastic_four

fantastic_four

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Is a CGC 9.4 with Offwhite pages in better " condition " than a CGC 9.4 with White pages?

 

If you're asking whether CGC downgrades more for the off-white pages than the white pages at the 9.4 level, then I'm 80% sure the answer is no. If you're asking which one is more desirable, I believe the answer is clear!

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THE_BEYONDER

THE_BEYONDER

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Is a CGC 9.4 with Offwhite pages in better " condition " than a CGC 9.4 with White pages?

 

If you're asking whether CGC downgrades more for the off-white pages than the white pages at the 9.4 level, then I'm 80% sure the answer is no. If you're asking which one is more desirable, I believe the answer is clear!

 

 

If two books are identical in every way except one has OW pages, and the other WHITE......will CGC grade them the same?

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greggy

greggy

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If you're asking which one is more desirable, I believe the answer is clear!

You're assuming that the structure and/or QP is essentially the same. Bruce mentioned in a previous thread that he used to be a PQ freak and would accept fugly looking books over books with better eye appeal but a lower PQ. I believe that his limit is OW. That is essentially the same with me because once the cream aspect gets into the PQ, people psychologically think that it is a lot inferior.

 

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