Are You Kidding Me...

[BronzeBruce13]

I'm not aware that is an option on any consignment site.

BTW... fill me in, how was it determined to be Doug's book? I really don't know.

 

 

 

If you were this guy for arguments sake (and I know you personally would never get in such a situation) and were stuck with the book in theory... what would your next step be?

 

I would return the book for a refund, as is offered through customer protection laws in most states. If that failed, I would contact my CC and get them involved in a return.

 

Done.

 

But like I said, none of this really happened, and it's likely a cover-up for some guys trying to take an old man to the cleaners.

[joe_collector]

Don't any of you think it's incredibly coincidental that Pedigree lists a vastly overpriced book (from Doug's collection) at EXACTLY the maximum amount the old buyer was prepared to pay?

 

And how quickly it sold....

[THE_BEYONDER]

That does seem odd... agreed.

 

However, if he's stuck with the book at an obvious unattainable price, consults with Doug and others as to what a "realistic" aggressive price for the book would "really be" and then resigns himself to the fact that he will take a significant loss, but wants out a soon as possible... wouldn't this be a logical course of action?

 

 

 

Now my head hurts.

 

The 'agent' buys the book for $2500 from pedigree...then turns around and asks the same people what a "realistic" selling price would be?

[BronzeBruce13]

 

again... how do we know the owner of the book was Doug... the registry?

 

[fanfourforever]

I'm not aware that is an option on any consignment site.

BTW... fill me in, how was it determined to be Doug's book? I really don't know.

 

 

 

If you were this guy for arguments sake (and I know you personally would never get in such a situation) and were stuck with the book in theory... what would your next step be?

 

I would return the book for a refund, as is offered through customer protection laws in most states. If that failed, I would contact my CC and get them involved in a return.

 

Done.

 

But like I said, none of this really happened, and it's likely a cover-up for some guys trying to take an old man to the cleaners.

 

The comiclink description insinuated that it was owned by disbarred doug. The book is no longer listed there.

[joe_collector]

I'm not aware that is an option on any consignment site.

 

You ever go a amusement park where the tickets have some kind of legal disclaimer barring you from suing?

 

Same deal, people can talk all they want, but it doesn't make it true. "No returns" means jack when you may be required by law to accept returns.

 

Most states have a "cooling off" period where a buyer may return a good without penalty, and it's highly surprising that the buyer never even thought about this obvious remedy.

[joe_collector]

The comiclink description insinuated that it was owned by disbarred doug.

 

I thought it was pretty obvious from that description alone.

 

Ask Doug, I'm sure he has nothing to hide.

[BronzeBruce13]

I was assuming he was "uninformed about the books real value" and was focusing only on the "willing to pay" price. Afterwards, reality set in when he had to sell... in that scenario.

 

I admit, I'm not so much on the fence anymore... the "selling at the buy price" is too weird if the buyer was not a really good friend. I went back and read the statements again and it sound like he was looking for a profit somewhere. There is more to this story.

 

Perhaps, he obtained a "commission" from the owner of the book for selling it at his buyers declared buy price so the full amount of the sale (including his cut) was posted?

 

 

 

 

 

That does seem odd... agreed.

 

However, if he's stuck with the book at an obvious unattainable price, consults with Doug and others as to what a "realistic" aggressive price for the book would "really be" and then resigns himself to the fact that he will take a significant loss, but wants out a soon as possible... wouldn't this be a logical course of action?

 

 

 

Now my head hurts.

 

The 'agent' buys the book for $2500 from pedigree...then turns around and asks the same people what a "realistic" selling price would be?

[BronzeBruce13]

thanks... I never saw the description.

Can you paraphrase sort of from memory (not quote) to give me an idea what the insinuations was.

[THE_BEYONDER]

 

 

Since Doug believes the book is a 9.8 in 9.6 clothing...just get him to resub the book...get the 9.8.....and list it again.

 

Problem solved.

[joe_collector]

Perhaps, he obtained a "commission" from the owner of the book for selling it at his buyers declared buy price so the full amount of the sale (including his cut) was posted?

 

 

Think about it for a second. An agent has an old guy on the line for a max of $2500, Doug miraculously lists that EXACT book he's looking for, and for EXACTLY $2500, completing a very quick sale.

 

Can you spell COLLUSION?

[fanfourforever]

I wonder how many of disbarred doug's other "sales" are fake?

[BronzeBruce13]

I didn't. I could only see him "pleading" for a return option at best.

 

I would never have thought legally there was an option in that regard.

I'd be interested in the "board lawyers" take on that. I thought that a broker would be under no legal obligation to reverse a deal where there was no issue about the validity and condition of the paid for item... but what the hell do I know.

 

 

I'm not aware that is an option on any consignment site.

 

You ever go a amusement park where the tickets have some kind of legal disclaimer barring you from suing?

 

Same deal, people can talk all they want, but it doesn't make it true. "No returns" means jack when you may be required by law to accept returns.

 

Most states have a "cooling off" period where a buyer may return a good without penalty, and it's highly surprising that the buyer never even thought about this obvious remedy.

[BronzeBruce13]

would that be collusion in this scenario?

also.. can we just assume he's not a senile old victim in the below scenario, but more likely an aggressive, obsessed spidey CGC collector on the precipice of completing a HG CGC ASM run from 100-200 and "was" willing to go very far to complete it... at least initially.

 

Agent: I have a buyer willing to pay $2500 for this book (to dealer)

Dealer: I have that book! wahoooo

Agent: Cool, since that's his top buy price, what's in it for me? What will you sell it to me for?

Dealer: I'll give you $500 since its such a great sale, but I'll list the full price the buyer is paying so the sale is accurate.

 

Is this wrong? If it went down that way.

 

 

 

Perhaps, he obtained a "commission" from the owner of the book for selling it at his buyers declared buy price so the full amount of the sale (including his cut) was posted?

 

 

Think about it for a second. An agent has an old guy on the line for a max of $2500, Doug miraculously lists that EXACT book he's looking for, and for EXACTLY $2500, completing a very quick sale.

 

Can you spell COLLUSION?

[BronzeBruce13]

no offense, as I don't know you or if you have an agenda, but isn't your labeling a little over the top? I know its accurate, but... every time?

 

 

I wonder how many of disbarred doug's other "sales" are fake?

[joe_collector]

would that be collusion in this scenario?

also.. can we just assume he's not a senile old victim in the below scenario, but more likely an aggressive, obsessed spidey CGC collector on the precipice of completing a HG CGC ASM run from 100-200 and "was" willing to go very far to complete it... at least initially.

 

Agent: I have a buyer willing to pay $2500 for this book (to dealer)

Dealer: I have that book! wahoooo

Agent: Cool, since that's his top buy price, what's in it for me? What will you sell it to me for?

Dealer: I'll give you $500 since its such a great sale, but I'll list the full price the buyer is paying so the sale is accurate.

 

Is this wrong? If it went down that way.

 

That's how I think it all played out, and I feel it's unethical and an overt manipulation of market prices. Obviously, this type of "predetermined sale" should also not be part of GPA data.

 

P.S. I also believe that the book never changed hands.

[Nostalgic Attic]

no offense, as I don't know you or if you have an agenda, but isn't your labeling a little over the top? I know its accurate, but... every time?

 

 

I wonder how many of disbarred doug's other "sales" are fake?

 

I think if anyone was to call Doug, they would find that he did sell the book for $2500. I would have sold it too at that price. I think from his perspective, after reading about Bruce's scenario, he is probably not buying the "agent's" story (just as we aren't) and probably is unsure of his intentions, i.e. a misguided attempt to manipulate the market or simple buyer's remorse. If the "agent" was a regular customer of Doug's, he probably would have worked out a refund somehow.

 

I see no reason to disparage Doug over this issue, we have no evidence that the sale is fake and to make a leap that other sales on his site are fake is wrong.

[Sal]

would that be collusion in this scenario?

also.. can we just assume he's not a senile old victim in the below scenario, but more likely an aggressive, obsessed spidey CGC collector on the precipice of completing a HG CGC ASM run from 100-200 and "was" willing to go very far to complete it... at least initially.

 

Agent: I have a buyer willing to pay $2500 for this book (to dealer)

Dealer: I have that book! wahoooo

Agent: Cool, since that's his top buy price, what's in it for me? What will you sell it to me for?

Dealer: I'll give you $500 since its such a great sale, but I'll list the full price the buyer is paying so the sale is accurate.

 

Is this wrong? If it went down that way.

 

That's how I think it all played out, and I feel it's unethical and an overt manipulation of market prices. Obviously, this type of "predetermined sale" should also not be part of GPA data.

 

P.S. I also believe that the book never changed hands.

 

This seems like a likely scenario to me as well. If the sale actually were to go through to the final buyer, there's ethical wiggle room in listing the sale price of the book at 2.5k, since that would be the money that actually changed hands. But the agent could have received a fee from the consignor in exchange for handling the entire process.

 

Once the deal fell through, the contingency purchase would have fallen through as well, and thus the book would never have actually been shipped anywhere...nor would any actual sale have taken place.

 

I really hope Doug comes on here to explain exactly what happened, because the way it looks now isn't doing him any favours imho

 

edit: the likelihood of Doug being sucked in to this thing is just as plausible as any other scenario. it's entirely possible that Doug did nothing more than offer consignment services for the book and is trying to make the best out of a bad situation by relisting it for the "buyer"

[BronzeBruce13]

I'm not sure I understand why you feel that would be unethical... or even inaccurate from a sales price point a view.

 

Over the past 5 years I've worked with many comic collectors who were busy, wealthy professionals. Knowing (having demonstrated) that I had the time, access, tenacity and hunches where to go to locate bronze books, I was sent quite a few buy lists with buy prices. I found myself in similar situations on many occasions and although I rarely found it necessary to tell the owner of the book what my buyer's ceiling was, many of my private dealings went similarly.

 

The ones that were most similar to this example were ones where the buyers ceiling was equal to or "too" close to my initial buy price offered by the owner of the book. In those cases, I said "my buyers top price is X amount... can you come down to Y so I can make a cut on the deal too"? On occasion where the buyer's buy price was significantly higher than what I got the book for, I would not go all the way to the ceiling, especially if we had done business before. In other cases, I would break even for a good customer (or friend) if situation dictated. I wanted them to get the book anyway as opposed to losing it because I could not obtain a cut in that instance. That philosophy worked well for everyone.

 

Anyway, I cant see why this in not above board.

 

 

would that be collusion in this scenario?

also.. can we just assume he's not a senile old victim in the below scenario, but more likely an aggressive, obsessed spidey CGC collector on the precipice of completing a HG CGC ASM run from 100-200 and "was" willing to go very far to complete it... at least initially.

 

Agent: I have a buyer willing to pay $2500 for this book (to dealer)

Dealer: I have that book! wahoooo

Agent: Cool, since that's his top buy price, what's in it for me? What will you sell it to me for?

Dealer: I'll give you $500 since its such a great sale, but I'll list the full price the buyer is paying so the sale is accurate.

 

Is this wrong? If it went down that way.

 

That's how I think it all played out, and I feel it's unethical and an overt manipulation of market prices. Obviously, this type of "predetermined sale" should also not be part of GPA data.

 

P.S. I also believe that the book never changed hands.

[Aman619]

the GPA issue is an interesting sidepoint to the story. GPA wont recognize a private deal between this agent and his buyer. So the only price that GPA will use is the Pedigree sale price. Therefore, depending on whatever really happened here, there might have been a decision between agent and Pedigree whereby they chose to publicize the final 2500 price.

 

The agent didnt specify (I dont think) if he was adding a fee to the 2500, or just selling it at cost. And of course there remains the possibility that Doug paid agent a "finders fee" that the buyer never hears about. But even then, is the buyer harmed in any way? Thats between his agent friend and him based on whether he cares if teh agent made a side deal he wasnt telling him about