Are You Kidding Me...

[Warlord]

That does seem odd... agreed.

 

However, if he's stuck with the book at an obvious unattainable price, consults with Doug and others as to what a "realistic" aggressive price for the book would "really be" and then resigns himself to the fact that he will take a significant loss, but wants out a soon as possible... wouldn't this be a logical course of action?

 

Clearly he has with no remaining option with the original buyer who was at one point willing to pay "serious multiples of reality" to lock down thew one HTF missing book form a significant run.

 

If you were this guy for arguments sake (and I know you personally would never get in such a situation) and were stuck with the book in theory... what would your next step be?

 

 

I wouldn't offer it for sale again for half the price I paid without making sure my "ex friend/collector" wasn't able to get it at that discounted price after turning it down at full price!

[THE_BEYONDER]

That does seem odd... agreed.

 

However, if he's stuck with the book at an obvious unattainable price, consults with Doug and others as to what a "realistic" aggressive price for the book would "really be" and then resigns himself to the fact that he will take a significant loss, but wants out a soon as possible... wouldn't this be a logical course of action?

 

Clearly he has with no remaining option with the original buyer who was at one point willing to pay "serious multiples of reality" to lock down thew one HTF missing book form a significant run.

 

If you were this guy for arguments sake (and I know you personally would never get in such a situation) and were stuck with the book in theory... what would your next step be?

 

 

I wouldn't offer it for sale again for half the price I paid without making sure my "ex friend/collector" wasn't able to get it at that discounted price after turning it down at full price!

 

 

[Ghost Town]

 

again... how do we know the owner of the book was Doug... the registry?

 

Doug did not own the book. Doug recently called me and asked if I wanted to sell my 9.6 copy of ASM #114 for $2500. (I said, "No thanks.") I'm sure it was for the same buyer. And Doug sold most of his Spideys awhile ago. He would not have tried to get mine if he had his own copy to sell.

[THE_BEYONDER]

 

again... how do we know the owner of the book was Doug... the registry?

 

Doug did not own the book. Doug recently called me and asked if I wanted to sell my 9.6 copy of ASM #114 for $2500. (I said, "No thanks.") I'm sure it was for the same buyer. And Doug sold most of his Spideys awhile ago. He would not have tried to get mine if he had his own copy to sell.

 

You turned down $2500 for your copy?

[Ghost Town]

 

again... how do we know the owner of the book was Doug... the registry?

 

Doug did not own the book. Doug recently called me and asked if I wanted to sell my 9.6 copy of ASM #114 for $2500. (I said, "No thanks.") I'm sure it was for the same buyer. And Doug sold most of his Spideys awhile ago. He would not have tried to get mine if he had his own copy to sell.

 

You turned down $2500 for your copy?

Yes, I turned it down.

[BronzeBruce13]

Great point! I have no idea why that never ocurred to me.

 

Definitely unless he knew the reneg buyer had no idea about the consignment sites... and that's highly unlikely.

 

However, if the original rebeg buyer was willing to offer the best price... it would be a tough decision for the current owner. Make an unproductive financial stand by not selling to the reneg buyer and lose more money by selling elsewhere for less or screw principles and take the best "get out" price even if its Satan buying.

 

If you stand on principal (which most would I suppose) you better hope the new buyer never saw this thread and immediately tries to flip it for $500 more... then that might hurt even more and potentially lead to violence. I suspect more than a few board members would drive a couple of states to lay a smack down over something like this.

 

 

 

 

That does seem odd... agreed.

 

However, if he's stuck with the book at an obvious unattainable price, consults with Doug and others as to what a "realistic" aggressive price for the book would "really be" and then resigns himself to the fact that he will take a significant loss, but wants out a soon as possible... wouldn't this be a logical course of action?

 

Clearly he has with no remaining option with the original buyer who was at one point willing to pay "serious multiples of reality" to lock down thew one HTF missing book form a significant run.

 

If you were this guy for arguments sake (and I know you personally would never get in such a situation) and were stuck with the book in theory... what would your next step be?

 

 

I wouldn't offer it for sale again for half the price I paid without making sure my "ex friend/collector" wasn't able to get it at that discounted price after turning it down at full price!

 

 

[BronzeBruce13]

BTW... Doug asked me about a 9.6 ASM 3 weeks ago. I thought it was 116, but it very well could have been 114... probably was all things considered. That didn't register until Barton mentioned Doug contacted him. At the time Doug said he had a motivated customer who was calling him regularly to encourage him to find one... hence the call.

 

 

 

 

 

again... how do we know the owner of the book was Doug... the registry?

 

Doug did not own the book. Doug recently called me and asked if I wanted to sell my 9.6 copy of ASM #114 for $2500. (I said, "No thanks.") I'm sure it was for the same buyer. And Doug sold most of his Spideys awhile ago. He would not have tried to get mine if he had his own copy to sell.

 

You turned down $2500 for your copy?

Yes, I turned it down.

[LordRahl]

I'm not sure I understand why you feel that would be unethical... or even inaccurate from a sales price point a view.

 

Over the past 5 years I've worked with many comic collectors who were busy, wealthy professionals. Knowing (having demonstrated) that I had the time, access, tenacity and hunches where to go to locate bronze books, I was sent quite a few buy lists with buy prices. I found myself in similar situations on many occasions and although I rarely found it necessary to tell the owner of the book what my buyer's ceiling was, many of my private dealings went similarly.

 

The ones that were most similar to this example were ones where the buyers ceiling was equal to or "too" close to my initial buy price offered by the owner of the book. In those cases, I said "my buyers top price is X amount... can you come down to Y so I can make a cut on the deal too"? On occasion where the buyer's buy price was significantly higher than what I got the book for, I would not go all the way to the ceiling, especially if we had done business before. In other cases, I would break even for a good customer (or friend) if situation dictated. I wanted them to get the book anyway as opposed to losing it because I could not obtain a cut in that instance. That philosophy worked well for everyone.

 

Anyway, I cant see why this in not above board.

 

 

would that be collusion in this scenario?

also.. can we just assume he's not a senile old victim in the below scenario, but more likely an aggressive, obsessed spidey CGC collector on the precipice of completing a HG CGC ASM run from 100-200 and "was" willing to go very far to complete it... at least initially.

 

Agent: I have a buyer willing to pay $2500 for this book (to dealer)

Dealer: I have that book! wahoooo

Agent: Cool, since that's his top buy price, what's in it for me? What will you sell it to me for?

Dealer: I'll give you $500 since its such a great sale, but I'll list the full price the buyer is paying so the sale is accurate.

 

Is this wrong? If it went down that way.

 

That's how I think it all played out, and I feel it's unethical and an overt manipulation of market prices. Obviously, this type of "predetermined sale" should also not be part of GPA data.

 

P.S. I also believe that the book never changed hands.

 

I agree 100% with Bruce here. How is Doug doing anything unethical and trying to manipulate the market? He goes and finds a book that someone is willing to pay crazy money for. Isn't that sort of his job as a dealer/consignment site. And just how is this guy supposed to return the book, Doug has an obligation to his consignor to pay him his 90% doesn't he? People are up in arms trying to find a conspiracy just because they think the price is crazy and don't like Doug.

[thirdgreenham]

 

again... how do we know the owner of the book was Doug... the registry?

 

Doug did not own the book. Doug recently called me and asked if I wanted to sell my 9.6 copy of ASM #114 for $2500. (I said, "No thanks.") I'm sure it was for the same buyer. And Doug sold most of his Spideys awhile ago. He would not have tried to get mine if he had his own copy to sell.

 

You turned down $2500 for your copy?

Yes, I turned it down.

 

Whoa!

[FlyingDonut]

<thread hijack> All of you big cheese Bronze guys - find me some 9.8 Superboys. </end thread hijack>

[seanfingh]

<thread hijack> All of you big cheese Bronze guys - find me some 9.8 Superboys. </end thread hijack>

 

{thread hijack continuation} I'll take FD's 9.4 and 9.6 cast-offs!! {End thread hijack continuation}

[musicmeta]

to all:

 

I think it would be a better idea to just email Doug to confirm if it was a real sale. It is certainly more likely than not. Doug could certainly attest to whether the deal was "consummated" or not. That's the real question. Buyers not following through on a purchase is not unheard of. Its happened to me as a seller on Pedigree roughly 6-7 times so far. Buyers reneging on a private agreement to buy is also not uncommon.

 

I think its a bit unfair at this stage to just assume it was not and that some diabolical market manipulation must be taking place. I'm not saying such manipulation is impossible, but more likely "improbable" in this case... knowing what we know so far.

 

I do speak from experience... I ran into a similar situation 2-3 years ago. A one-time forumite (not active for quite some time - and no I won't dish any further dirt - its besides the point) agreed to buy a book from me that he desperately wanted and publicly sought. After locating the book, I checked with him again to reaffirm his commitment and our agreed upon price (a multiple K item) before I paid for it. I then paid for the book, received it, contacted the fellow to arrange payment/shipment and then he pulled what I feel was BS. Semantics arose as to "if" the conversation we had when the deal was made was intended (on his part) to be a commitment/binding verbal agreement or not. He was fully aware at that point that I laid out the cash on the item. His position was that he felt it was OK for him to change his mind about what he was willing to pay. I was very pizzed but held my cool and "allowed" myself to be negotiated out almost all the profit on the deal because I did not have another buyer in mind as an alternative. A year later, I found someone willing to pay significantly more than the sales price he leveraged from me. I contacted him only to find that he sold the book months earlier (surprise). I don't know if I was played from the get go or not, but this kind of "compromised deal" or "no deal" after a verbal agreement (and purchase for) happens. In my case it was more than the amount of the ASM 114 in question.

 

Man, So sorry to hear about this. That's a lot of $$$ you had to shell out.

[Captain Tripps]

Nostalgic,

 

I was just alerted to this thread and can not believe that one simple attempted purchase of a book can turn into a such a story for public consumption. The story is actually true (although I have no way of verifying if Dave, the "agent", was truly buying the book for himself or for his "buyer", Tim). He did make it seem that it was being bought on behalf of someone else but there is no way of anyone verifying that.

 

The truth is that he had contacted me initially about a month or so ago about a friend of his ("Tim") who was trying to complete a high grade Spidey run (#'s100-200 I think) and desperately needed the 114 9.6. He had looked at some of the Registry sets and asked me if I knew Ghost town, who had a 114 9.6 ow pages. I contacted ghost town (this couldn't be more than a month or so ago) and told him there was a buyer who was offering stupid $$ for an ASM 114 9.6 (he came up to $2,500). Ghost Town declined, even though he knew it was a crazy offer, as he wanted the book and it would have left a gaping hole in his complete ASM run. I then contacted a private collector whom I figured would have the book and he told me he would sell it in a heartbeat for $2,500. He shipped the book to me and I was awaiting payment from Dave. Somehow, either Dave or Tim changed his mind and now thought that paying $2500 for a 9.6 ASM 114 was too high. That was the end of the story (or so I thought) I shipped the book back to the private collector and that was that....

 

Until Dave called me again about 2 weeks ago and claimed his buyer was "jonesing" for that ASM 114 9.6 (I emailed Dave a scan of it) and was now, again, willling to pay $2,500 for it. He promised me this was a 100%, no-*spoon* offer and that he was going to pay for it with his credit card. He claimed that his buyer liked the old CGc labels over the new ones, and asked me if I could somehow swap the 114 9.6 white I had emailed him from the private collector with Ghost Town's 114 9.6 ow which is in the old label. I called Ghost Town and, after showing him a scan of the white copy (which has perfect centering plus the white pages), he agreed to do a swap so that he would get the white copy and Tim would now get his old labeled-copy. However, Dave called me back (last Wed. if i'm not mistaken) and claimed that Tim looked over his ASM 100-200 run, saw that he had a predominance of white-paged copies, and decided to take the white-paged one. I called Ghost Town to let him know. He laughed at the folly of all this and I couldn't help but agree with him. The private collector sent me his ASM 114 9.6 white pager (again) based on my telling him it was a done deal and I was now waiting to hear from Tim as he was going to call me with his credit cars info. (Dave had bought 1 book from me before so I had no reason to think it was a scam, etc.)

 

Anyway, Dave called me last Thurs. with his credit card info and I processed it and the sale for the book, plus shipping, was approved. I also listed the book on my site as a sale pending so that GPA could track the sale. I shipped it to Dave that same day (Thursdays are one of my regular FedEx shipping days) and I assumed that was the end of the story, that Tim now had his ASM 114 9.6 and the seller was very happy getting $2,250 for a book that is top of guide at $75.00!!

 

Unfortunately, Dave called me this week (I believe on Monday) claiming that Tim did not now want the book, that he was going to be stuck with the $2500 plus shipping and if I could call the seller and tell him to void the sale. I was furious as Dave had promised me it was a done deal, that it was already listed as a book shipped and sent to GPA, plus I had sent the seller his check that morning for his $2,250. Dave then asked me, almost in tears, if I would re-list it for him on my site. I told him noone was going to pay $2500 for it (or even close) but he asked me to list it at $1800 so he could recoup some of his losses while he was going after Tim for the balance. He called me at least 7 times till Tuesday. I felt sorry for the guy, and, as frustrated and mad as I was, told him I would refund the $$ to him if he shipped the book back to me asap and never called me or bid on my site again.

 

He was very apologetic in calling me again on Tuesday night, claiming Tim had totally screwed him, etc. I believed it was not his fault and told him he wasn't being barred from the site. I genuinely believed him as no other scenario made sense. The seller, of course, wasn't happy when I called him, but he gets his ASM 114 back. I feel sorry for Dave but I'm sure he's learned a lesson about laying out $$ for a friend, etc. True to his word, the FedEx package (never opened) came back to me today and I am sending him a check tomorrow.

 

There was no fraud or intent to deceive here. Just a sad situation of a guy who was probably trying to help his friend get a book and make some $$ doing it (I'm sure Dave was going to pay for it and thus charge Tim a bit more) but who got stuck with the purchase.

 

These Boards are just too much. All you guys always assume there's some kind of fraud, misrepresentation, etc. when some unexpalined or hard to expalin situation arises. If you had any doubts, etc. about the sale of the ASM 114, why didn't somebody just call me. Ask anyone, I return all calls/emails asap and would never hide behind a sale, etc. That would have saved a lot of time guessing,etc, and of needless accusations. I'm going to contact George of GPA to nullify the sales data.

 

I hope that explains this mess. Time for me to get some sleep. Btw, if anyone needs a 9.6 ASM 114 with white pages............!!!

[gpanalysis]

Thanks for the note Doug. Doug just emailed us to let us know of this sale and that it fell through - we've updated GPA to reflect this.

 

Every now and then we may ask Doug to provide further info on certain sales that have commanded high prices. He is always very forthcoming and transparent (even when we call him at 2AM in the morning - sorry Doug! ).

 

And he's one of the few GPA reporting partners that provide very detailed sales data to us which helps on tracking all these sales.

[sterlingcomics]

Thanks for the detail Doug--although you of course were in no obligation to divulge the information. I believe that the collector should just sell his collection if he is just going to be wishy washy on his technique...that was a lot of anguish to the participating parties.

 

In all honesty you have to agree that this story is out there (at least from my perspective). Perhaps we should have a contest on the most screwed up comic deal. So far, this is #1.

 

BTW, I don't think there was a witch hunt per se (maybe from a couple of board members with hidden agendas) but I think there was some valid conversation on the details and minds "wandered". The fact that the book's price was so high and sold will just naturally bring out the gossip...no mean/ill will intended to you as the consignor.

[Sal]

These Boards are just too much. All you guys always assume there's some kind of fraud, misrepresentation, etc. when some unexpalined or hard to expalin situation arises. If you had any doubts, etc. about the sale of the ASM 114, why didn't somebody just call me. Ask anyone, I return all calls/emails asap and would never hide behind a sale, etc. That would have saved a lot of time guessing,etc, and of needless accusations. I'm going to contact George of GPA to nullify the sales data.

 

 

well...i see your point, but these boards aren't any more paranoid than any other segment of the hobby.

 

i personally appreciate the time you spent clarifying the sale. it may have been a pain in the tuchus, but it can only help your rep.

 

next time something like this comes up - a story that has to be explained to be believed - you might try a preemptive thread.

 

, just kidding

[Captain Tripps]

Sterling,

 

No problem. It really is a bizzare story but it is 100% true. There were so many mind changes here (me calling Ghost Town about swapping the white pager for his old-labeled off-white) it is unbelievable. I forgot to mention that at one point, Dave had told me (probably 2 weeks or so ago when Tim now wanted the book for a second time) that Tim was even willing to pay more $$ (I'm pretty sure $500 was thrown out there) just to get Ghost towns old-label!! ( but that idea was scrapped). That was probably what prompted me to call Ghost Town (again) about his 114 9.6. Although he didn't want to sell it and be left with no #114, Ghost Town liked the centering and white pages of the new copy (I emailed him the scan I had) and was waiting for me to ship him the white-pager before he was going to ship me his copy. That never occurred as Tim then changed his mind after realizing how many white-paged copies he had in his run (if Dave made all this up someone should hire him to be a -script writer or something. You really can't make this stuff up).

 

I guess what really made the story seem sketchy is the book turning up on ComicLink and then on my site right after the book went into my "recent sales" inventory. Believe me, I was so furious and frustrated about the deal not going through for a second time that I was initially not going to refund Dave's $$, feeling his beef was with Tim, not me. But I really believed him and felt so bad about him getting stiffed that I decided to just give him a refund (believe me, I was now dreading having to call the seller, for the second time, telling him the deal was off and to rip up my check). He was eventually cool about it but was really pissed off at first. That was a tough phone call to have to make.

 

If anything stranger occurs than this sad story, I'd be pretty surprised. Again, I don't think you can make this stuff up! I'm pretty creative but this was ridiculous.

 

Doug

[chrisco37]

The story sounds so crazy, it almost has to be true. Sounds like a good time was had by all.

 

It would be nice to know what the wishy-washer collector was thinking this whole time. Did he read the boards and freak when we said that $2500 was krazy money? Why would he want to trade a WP for OW/W? I know you said he likes old lables better, but what's he going to do? Resub it for WP (you'd get a new label anyway, and the other copy is already WP).

 

Strange to be sure, but most collectors have a screw or two loose anyway.

 

Damn, just thinking about that whole mess make Hulk head hurt.

 

Thanks for coming on to clear this up Doug.

[THE_BEYONDER]

Had you not posted the book on your site in the 1st place....this thread would have never existed.

 

You had a buyer. Why list it?

[chrisco37]

 

You had a buyer. Why list it?

 

For GPA to record it?