lou_fine

That's exactly it...their backing is a book in a CGC slab... The seller isn't backing anything. The difference in some cases between a grade of 9.0 and 9.2 is hundreds of dollars, but that isn't CGCs fault, that is the markets fault.... Exactly right as you or any other potential bidder would be bidding based upon the reputation of the CGC brand which tends to carry a high degree of weight in this marketplace. So, if bidders are willing to bid higher than current GPA for raw common books that come with unverifiable "dream like" stories behind them, they should remember when they point a finger at somebody else (i.e. the seller in this case here), there's also a few fingers pointing back at themselves also. The seller is most definitely a scummy dirtbag here, but I simply don't understand why anybody in their right mind would be bidding the kind of dollars they seem to be bidding here, knowing the seediness of the eBay marketplace for raw books.

Yes. Three letters. A CGC 8.0 that became a CGC 8.5 that became a CGC graded 9.0. Well, this sounds like the withhholding of some pretty relevant and significant information if they just happen to conveniently forget to mention the 8.0 and 8.5 grades in their long 5+ minute spiel on the book. Yes, although the book may indeed have been kept and stored by the original collector at the bottom of a cedar chest for some 30 year, and then resold some years later to a prominent dealer who kept it for a further 30 years before pulling it out of his bank vault to sell it to this current eBay seller in the video. Definitely sounds all nice and good except for the big and rather significant gaps as to what happened to the book from the time it was first graded as a CGC 8.0 copy and then finally as a CGC 9.0 graded copy. In an almost 6-minute spiel on this particular book here, I am sure these two guys here should have been able to set aside at least a few seconds for that rather important fact.

Definite photo manipulation. I assume you must be referring to scans of any books which Heritage Auctions is auctioning off?

You ARE "missing something here". The seller is using likely deceptive methods to portray his advertisement of the comic. You can't hold a buyer responsible for information that is withheld, or overstated. It's presented under deceptive practices. As I had posted the previous week, not sure why everybody is getting themselves all in dither about a minor book like ASM 194, when you see virtually the same type of thing happening with the much bigger books. If you are concerned about the withholding of information, I don't noticed these 2 guys mentioning the fact that this so-called highest graded copy of Action Comics 1 actually started out as a CGC 8.0 graded copy and then supposedly a CGC 8.5 graded copy before acheiving this final grade and a big factor in why the book sold for $3.2M dollars:

Ahhhh...................the first Blue Beetle cover appearance and probably the absolute toughest of the early Fox Mystery Men books to find. CGC population census report indicates only 10 Universal unrestored copies graded to date, with only the Jon Berk Church copy coming in above a VG 4.0 grade with a grade of VF 8.0 grade which sold for over 6X VF condition guide at the time for just over $13.5K in the big Jon Berk CC Auction a few years ago. Looks like it's going to be pretty tough to find a true HG copy of this book since the Larson List indicates a coupon cut out of the Larson copy of Mystery Men 7.

Man............you got that right!!! Unfortunately, he lived in the days when there was no such things as internet and social media, let alone internet hackers to screw everything up.

Ah interesting!...CGC always has denoted it as Holyoke. Well, I just checked the price guide and it looks like Overstreet have the publishers listed as "Holyoke Publ. Co. / Narrative Publ." which means to me it's probably issue dependent. I also checked the Grand Comics Database and it looks like they Narrative Publishers listed for Power Comics #1, #2, & #4 and only a "?" for Power Comics #3.

Not sure why there's all this fuss about this most recent hack, when the Everett and Fine was obviously hacked right from the get go?

Now I must be missing something... what book are you talking about? Definitely my bad as I meant to say well over 3,000 copies of ASM 194 graded and slabbed in CGC 9.0 and above, with almost 6,000 copies slabbed in total. Looks like the truly rare and hard to find one would be one of the CGC 0.5 graded Poor copies since there's only 2 of these according to the population census report.

I think a seller can sell a book for whatever they want. Am I missing something here as I thought this book was sold in the old style eBay auction format, as opposed to a BIN or sale price set in advance by the seller. If so, then it's really much more a case of a buyer being able to buy a book for whatever they want, after factoring in the caveat emptor principle. Even more so in this particular case here where the seller specifically and clearly states in big bold letters that the grade is ONLY HIS OPINION and asks potential bidders to look at the photos as GRADING IS VERY SUBJECTIVE. Now, if that's not raising big red flags to any potential bidders, then they have only themselves to largely blame as they are definitely not bothering to conduct any due diligence on their own part before throwing down irresponsible bids on a common book that already has well over 5,000 copies graded and slabbed in CGC 9.0 and above.

Can you explain what you mean when you say that a slabbed book is 100% backed by CGC? Especially when CGC clearly states that grading is subjective and only based upon their professional opinion at only the particular point in time when the book crosses their grading table. As a previous poster had mentioned in a previous post from a prior page: If you really believe that CGC will guarantee their own grades, then I guess you must also believe in the tooth fairy, the Easter bunny, Santa, and whatever other imaginery things there are out there.

No doubt as only the Amazing Mystery Funnies V2#5 pops right into my mind when it comes to Everett covers, but there's a virtual countless number of them when it comes to Fine's beautiful and exquisitely rendered covers.

Never heard of the guy in MY LIFE!!! Sounds like a guaranteed loser of a name to me though.

I disagree since I have a much better idea - go with only MY SCORE since it's rather obvious to me that eveybody else's is totally messed up.

My account for this is simple: Over time the CGC grading system has relaxed. I do not think you could lose by resubmission of a very early high grade Ga/SA book. Hey Mitch; Hate to be the bearer of bad news here, but I believe that the boss's analysis of what happen here is actually much closer to hitting the target: I really don't believe that it's a case of the CGC grading system relaxing over time, but rather that the CGC grading system has made subtle, but very very highly significant changes from when they first opened their doors way back in 2000. Unfortunately, it's all to do with something that I call the "business" of grading. If I am correct, I believe this particular File Copy of Crackajack Funnies (CF) 9 came out from a collection held by a private collector in Livonia, Michigan. I remember responding to a very small ad in the CBG way back in the late 80's or very early 90's from a retired comic book dealer who was in the process of selling off some books for this private collector since he have dealt with this dealer in the past before. I took a shot and was surprised that the books were still available and ended up with Poughkeepsie File Copies for a few of these Crackajack Funnies and some of the very early Four Color books. When they arrived in the mail, I was astounded at their overall condition and freshness, considering that they were bordering on being 50 years old at the time. They were definitely close to, if not equivalent to some of the cheaper pristine Church books which I had acquired to that point in time. Anyways, I called the dealer back right away to ask him if he had any more of these books available and I remember specifically mentioning the CF 9 since I was no dummy and realize this was the first comic book appearance for Red Ryder and for some odd reason, was still priced lower than Red Ryder #1 in the guide. Couldn't hurt since the dealer sold the first set to me at a huge discount to guide since I had brought quite a few and that was how pricing was back in those days for these types of books. He responded that the collector did indeed have more of these Poughkeepsie File Copy books in his private collection, including the Crackajack Funnies which he was planning to sell off. Since he felt pretty confident that the CF 9 was somewhere in there, he said that he would be sure to give me a call once he got these books in. About 6 months later while perusing the latest copy of the CBG, I noticed another ad from the same dealer with more of these Poughkeepsie file copies, this time including the CF 9 which I had been looking for. Called the dealer right away only to find out that this time, all of the books were already sold and that he had intended to give me a call, but had apparently misplaced my phone number. Fast forward to 2000 when CGC were first opening their doors and I decided to toss in about 12 to 15 books to test the grading and to see how they would do in the upcoming big Greg Manning Auction taking place later that year. Must have been old school grading from the pre-CGC days as they all came back with grades from CGC 9.2 to CGC 9.6 with both of the Poughkeepsie File Copy books, including a CF 21 and one of the Four Colors coming back as CGC 9.6 graded copies. I call it old school grading because when I look at the scans for the few remaining Poughkeepsie file copies which I still have, they look like the CF 9 above, but when I hold the actual books themselves up only at a certain angle to the light, I can see a few tiny barely perceptible non-color breaking ticks along the spine. My bet is that File Copy of CF 9 from above would most probably have graded out as a CGC 9.4 or CGC 9.6 if it had been graded back in 2000 when CGC first started up using the standards in place at the time. My thinking is that when Heritage came onto the scene with their overlapping and intertwining ownership of CCG in 2002, they used their prior experience from the other collectibles field to subtley fine-tune the undisclosed grading standards over time to specifically target what I would call "additional revenue generating defects". This of course was most probably part of their longer term business agenda right from the get go and done to eventually generate resubmits and additional streams of revenue from the same book in order to boost both their top and bottom lines, which any successful corporation should be seeking to do. If you take a look at the serial number for the CGC 9.0 graded copy of CF 9 above, it's interesting to note that it's from August of 2004 which was about a year before the collecting public would discover what was happening behind the scenes with CGC and their so-called "maximization of potential" that certain people in the know had been using to their financial benefit at the expense of an unsuspecting marketplace. As a result, it's no real surprise to me that the book would come back in a substantially higher grade as long as you understood the undisclosed rules of the CGC game and were willing to pay the additional dues to play it their way. So, if you really think that you can't lose by resubmitting a HG GA book that had been graded from before CGC started to *ahem*, shall we say "fine-tune" their undisclosed grading standards, then you should probably think again. My bet is that if you had a GA book previously slabbed as a uber HG 9.4 or 9.6 grade, although the PQ will most likely be higher upon a straight resub, the grade will more than likely drop down instead of going up due to your thinking that CGC's grading system is more relaxed as compared to their first year or plus of operations. And I guarantee you that the grade will drop substantially if you dare to resub a book in with those sacrilegious nearly non-perceptible tiny spine ticks because you would now clearly be in violation of not playing the grading game by their undisclosed rules. Just my personal take on this particular situation here, but who's to say who's really correct in their analysis of what took place with this specific upgrade here.

Most definitely, as i am completely puzzled and baffled as to why you would need or even want to have your book graded unless it's time for you to sell it. Especially from the unnecessary cost, potential damage or loss while in transit, additional storage point of view, and then most of all, not being able to readily peruse it at your pleasure. As for showing it to people, I can guaranteed you that more than 2 or 3 people have seen the book in person. I also don't understand why in the world you would need to circulate a photo of the book unless you are suffering from an inferiority complex or feel you need to show this book in order to boost your ego or standing in the collecting community. I believe that all collectors collect for a different reason, and it's really more a case of to each, their own.

No doubt, just saying that their abbreviated version of their auction archives is really there as a promo feature for obtaining future consignments. I actually don't have a problem with that at all, and hope consignors don't get the mistaken impression that these results are the norm and what they should be expecting to get for all of their consigned books.

Can they really say anything else as to the point that it is not a real sale, even though the buyer may still have not yet paid for it to this point in time. Sounds as though you are starting to lean to my way of thinking from a post which I had made in another thread the other week about this "totally unbelievable" auction result, when there are either equivalent graded copies available at substantially lower price points or significantly higher graded copies available at the same price point:

What is the general board consensus on the subject of leaf casting as far as you can tell?

Yeah it’s not directly on the home page. I’m not saying that wouldn’t be more convenient, but just the way they do it. You have to click the tab that says “Auctions”, then click “Auction Schedule - Consign now!”. That takes you to the screenshot I showed with all the past years of results. Looks like this link here points out the exact reason why CL auction results are not included as part of the GPA stats. It's not so much a link to their overall auction results, but a link to only certain select auction results which CL wants you to see in order to try to entice you to consign with them.

It makes my argument that you cannot tell any perceptible difference between 9.6 and 9.8 and yet the market has a very significant price differential. I believe you are only proving that the both of us here are old fogies from the pre-CGC generation of collectors who couldn't tell the difference between a CGC 9.6 graded book from a CGC 9.8 graded copy of the same book. Especially since most of the MA CGC generation of boardies here claim that there are clear and distinct tell tale signs which allows you to distinguish a CGC 9.6 graded book from a CGC 9.8 graded book with a relatively high degree of accuracy if you know what to look for. Heck, I am even having problems identifying what should be the clearly visible defects between this exact same File Copy of Crackajack Funnies #9 that would account for this rather 3-grading increment differences between the 9.0 graded copy of this book to when it came back as a 9.6 graded copy: Maybe I am just getting blind in my old age, but I really don't see anything from the 2 front cover scans that would account for this huge 3 increment differnce in grading for this File Copy of Crackajack Funnies #9. Let me know what you see that would account for this 3 increment difference in grading since you clearly have been in this hobby a whole lot longer than me.

Just look at the notes. 16 pages with corner trimmed off and I think paper leaf casted back on...probably not an exact visual match. I’m sure that plays into the grade ? Thanks Rick for sharing the purchased notes. Yes, 16 pages with corner trimmed off that has not been worked on will most definitely knock a book quite far down the grading scale.

Lot of interior work done Hey Rick; Hope this is just a typo on your part here and you really meant to say lots of imteror damage or defects that have NOT been worked on? Especially since their Restoration Rating of A-2 already takes into account the extent and quality of the restoration work done. Or are you also trying to say that when it comes to grading a restored book, CGC is doing either of the following: 1) Grading the book based upon all identified restoration work as a damage or defect (regardless of the quality of the work) on the book and then downgrading the condition grade accordingly; or 2) Grading the book as if the identified restoration work had not been peformed and then estimating (to the best of their ability) the initial grade of the book prior to any resto work being done. Both of these scenarios wouldn't really make much sense from my point of view since I thought a restored book was supposed to be graded based upon the condition of the book AFTER the restoration work had been done on the book, with the work to be seen as CORRECTING A DEFECT on the book and hence, upgraded accordingly from what its initial unrestored grade would have been. Then again, what do I know except that virtually every single Restored book I see seems to always without exception, presents so much nicer than their assigned CGC grade.

Holy cow Ths is a fantastic looking copy for a CGC grade of only 6.0 Fine: Definitely seems to present a whole lot nicer than your standard CGC 6.0 graded GA books, especially since the back cover looks just as nice. Or is CGC looking at the parts of the book that have been restored and then factoring them all in as defects which really wouldn't make a whole lot of sense?

If you go here on their site you can see results for a lot of auctioned books as far back as 2007. Is it just me as I am on CL's Home Page and I see nothing at all with a link that says Recent Auction Results?