lou_fine

after a little more digging I found out Eric Roberts owned/owns : Detective Comics 28 9.0 Allentown Detective Comics 29 9.6 Allentown Detective Comics 34 9.2 Allentown Well, from looking at the CGC grades for these 4 Allentown Detective books along with some other Allentown Fox books which I have seen, it would seem to indicate that Payette's reputation for being a strict grader has certainly stood the test of time. It actually makes me wonder what kind of grades that his uber HG copies which he had graded out as NM/M copies would be if they ever got slabbed. It appears that there were a total of only 9 books that he gave a raw grade of NM/M to, with only a small handful of them graded to this point in time as follows: 1) Batman #6 - NM/M CGC grade of NM+ 9.6; 2) Blue Ribbon #7 - NM/M; 3) Captain America #1 - NM/M Initial CGC grade of NM+ 9.6 and then regraded up to a CGC grade of NM/M 9.8; 4) Mystery Men #1 - NM/M CGC grade of VF/NM 9.2; (as corrected by RHG ) 5) Mystery Men #2 - NM/M; 6) Nickel Comics #2 - NM/M; 7) Nickel Comics #3 - NM/M CGC grade of NM+ 9.6; 8) Nickel Comics #4 - NM/M; and 9) Special Edition #1 - NM/M CGC grade of NM/M 9.8. So, except for the Mystery Men 1, it looks like Payette's grades have held up pretty well so far in todays certification age. If anybody knows the certified grades for any of the other NM/M raw copies which doesn't have a CGC attached to them, it would be good to know and appended to the list here.

Greatly appreciate you taking the time to post this picture of the catalog here. Unfortunately, it is not the right catalog as this one here is from 1997, whereas the one I was referring to came out in the very early 90's. Interesting to note that they still had the Allentown Copy of Wonderworld 14 listed at $2,150 after picking it up from Harley who had something like only a $1,100 price tag on the book when I first saw it down in Seattle.

+1 Most definitely!!! I have some File Copies from the late 30's and turn of the 40's and they are indeed absolute stunners to behold. The only drawback is that they tend to have some of those tiny non-color breaking creases on them which you can see when you hold them up at a certain angle to the light. Sadly, something which the current group of graders at CGC will absolutely smack the living daylights of when it comes to grading.

Very cool to own one There are 38 certified copies by Cgc alone, so it is not “rare” by comic book standards. if we were to apply the Gerber scarcity index just to “known “ copies it would likely be a 7. Add in extrapolated “unknown” copies and more like a 6 (uncommon) Yes, it would look like the CGC census population report in and of itself would indicate that all 3 of the listed Famous Funnies books are not quite as scarce as Gerber had initally given them credit for. When it comes to scarcity in terms of either the Gerber Index or the CGC census, I have always placed much more value in relative comparisons, as opposed to the absolute numbers themselves. For example, as the above scan indicated, Gerber had the FF A Carnival of Comics with a SI of 8 (i.e. Rare - 11 to 20 copies), the FF Series 1 with a SI of 10 (i.e. Unique - < 5 known copies), and Famous Funnies #1 with a SI of 9 (i.e. Very Rare - 6 to 10 copies). Yet, the current CGC census population report would indicate a total of 67 slabbed copies (50 unrestored) for FF A Carnival of Comics, 14 slabbed copies (7 unrestored) for FF Series 1, and as Gator had already mentioned 38 slabbed copies (22 unrestored) for Famous Funnies #1. Of course, there are possible resubs in there inflating the count a bit, but then this would also be offset by the fact that there are still raw copies sitting out there in private collections. So, although Gerber's Scarcity Index ratings are definitely low from an absolute point of view, they would appear to be "accurate" and still of some value to collectors from a relative comparison point of view. By the way, the Gerber Scarcity Index is an one-time rating from way back in the day and is not updated on an ongoing basis as your initial question would seem to indicate.

Yes, but isn't this really what it's all about and where the real fun is, like in this following set of pictures here: Yet, even with all of that handling, the Fantastic 3 was still able to acheive a grade of CGC 9.4 NM when it came time to have it graded.

Since one of the characters we are talking about here is the Phantom, would anybody know of any HG copies of this book here: Features the first comic book appearance of the Phantom and appears to be a highly undervalued book that hardly ever shows up in the marketplace, with this CGC 7.5 copy being still the highest graded and also most likley the last one to come to market way back in 2010.

I would tend to agree with you here and would certainly agree with Tim's point that the video game market does not appear to be built based upon the true collectors with long and deep roots in the hobby, as compared to both comics and OA which clearly does. They seem to be built based more upon developers and people that worked very closely within the video game industry itself, as opposed to the original buyers of these products. Comic books and OA have certainly made a long and steady climb up the mountain of valuation over the decades with broad based collectors, while the video game market seems to have started at the top of the mountain with the fortunate few that were in the right place and as we all know, there's usually only one direction to go from way up there.

Not sure if this is the wrong place since it is a Heritage thread and Heritage are auctioning off these games in this current auction here. Maybe these dealers are just ahead of the curve relative to the collectors in terms of the gaming market here. Reminds me a bit about the first time I went down to a SD Con at the turn of the 90's and saw all of the old long term comic collectors like Geppi, Hamilton, and the likes all sitting around flipping OA pages to each other when they were going for relative peanuts. Clearly a time when collectors were still not really into them, but just take a look at the OA market nowadays.

This would make it a lot less interesting to me as a collector, then. This is not at all like comics purchased and stored unread by individuals such as Edgar Church who actually bought the comic and then miraculously survived the ravages of time. This is more like Edgar's Electronics went out of business and a bunch of unliquidated inventory sat in a back room for years. There's nothing miraculous, and there's no emotional element, about these games surviving in pristine sealed condition for all of these years (and it's really not that many years). I would tend to agree with Tim's sentiment here after giving it some thought from a logical collector's point of view. To extend this same line of thinking a bit further, I would also see this Nintendo Play Station Super NES to be akin to the equivalent of an ashcan comic in our hobby place, since it is clearly nothing more than a prototype (mentioned several times in the auction description itself) and never meant for public sale.

I actually went back to look at that catalog after yours and another post about the bulk of the collection having possibly passed through Metro at some point. Wow, again, all I can say is hindsight. If you actually have this Metropolis #1 Catalog handy, can you flip to the last 2 pages where they had the non-#1 books listed and let us know what were the Allentown books listed in there? I believe they included some of the early issues of the 2 big Fox runs, but the only book that I really remember off the top of my head now is the HG Larson copy of Wonderworld 3 which they had priced to a point that I did not want to pay, but would gladly nowadays. Hope you are still the owner of the WE #13 No, unfortunately not as I ended up figuring out that I would never be able to complete the early run of Wonderworld Comics with those gorgeous covers since the affordability window had already closed on me by that time. As a result, I decided to toss it in with about a dozen other GA books when CGC first opened their doors to see what their grading system was like before giving it to Bill Hughes for consignment in their big Greg Manning Auction later that year. The book ended up grading out as a CGC 9.6 NM+ copy (was and still is the highest graded copy for what it's worth) and sold for some ridiculous almost 8X top of Overstreet guide. Of course, since this was the first really big coming out party for CGC graded books, needless to say, prices seem to reflect a lot of wild and crazy times with bidders seemingly high on something. From my point of view, I would speculate that certified grading at that very early point in the game was most likely still being done along the old school standards of grading which had already been established and in place for years. Especially since every single one of those books came back with grades between CGC 9.2 NM- to CGC 9.6 NM+, which I highly doubt would happen in today's much more "refined and developed" grading system.

No, Eric is the son of wall street investor George Roberts. He sold the first AF15 9.6 for 1.1 Mil Yes, his father would be the "R" in KKR since he was one of the founders of this huge global investment company with billions in assets. I guess the original question is what does Eric himself do, or is his claim to fame tied only to being the son of his daddy?

Yes. Considerably. I woud tend to agree with this sentiment as the Archie cycle is long in the tooth and on the down side of the curve after an rather extended period of very agressive upward price movements. But probably not to the point of considerably.

what grades ? I have only seen the 29 (9.6), 33 (9.0) and 38 (9.4) 27 is potentially a 9.6 The Atlantic City copy of Detective 33 dethroned the Allentown copy. Not sure if it means much since these are only raw grades, although it should be noted that Payette always had a reputation for being a relatively strict grader. From the Master Allentown Collection List, Payette's raw grades for the Detective #26 to #38 were as follows: Detective 26 - VF/NM CGC grade of VF/NM 9.0; Detective 27 - VF/NM; Detective 28 - VF; Detective 29 - NM CGC grade of NM+ 9.6; Detective 30 - NM-; Detective 31 - VF White Pages; Detective 33 - VF/NM CGC grade of VF/NM 9.0 with minor color touch and minor glue; Detective 34 - VF; Detective 35 - VF; and Detective 38 - VF CGC grade of NM 9.4

I seem to recall the AT Tec 38 being sold on Heritage several times. It actually seemed to be viewed as something of a toxic book at the time, when Robin-hate was running at its strongest. Like a lot of other GA books after the initial buzz and excitement with graded books had passed through the marketplace, prices seemingly took a pause or a bit of a downward draft for quite a few years back then. Not sure if marco economic factors such as the falling housing market followed quickly by the financial crisis, or more self-inflicted factors such as the whole freshly unveiled and still not fully accepted artifical manipulation of books played a part in the falling prices? Or possibly a combination of all these factors at the time? Definitely no exception for the Allentown copy of Detective 38 which was and still is the highest CGC graded copy, as it sold for significant decreasing multiples to top of guide every single time it came back into the marketplace. Clearly evident with the first sale at HA in 2002 for $120,750 or at 2.7X then top of guide, followed by a subequent sale in 2005 for $126,500 or at 2.1X then top of guide, before finally finding a long term home in 2009 when it sold for $107,550 or at only 1.35X then top of guide. Any bets that the current owner would be quite happy given the present red hot state of the GA comic book market for key and classic cover books.

Appreciate the info! Some did pass through Metro over the years and back in the day when 5000ish was also out of the realm of what i would consider paying for a comic book, i believe they had the Allentown Tec 38 around that price. with only 135 books....... Hindsight , hindsight... I agree, that most of the collection is most likely scattered. If I remember correctly, I believe the Metropolis #1 Catalogue which they had put out in the very early 90's had quite a few of the Allentown Fox books in there. Since I can't seem to find my copy of the catalogue, I think they were some of the earlier Wonderworld (and possibly Mystery Men) books and I believe they had them priced in the $1,000 to $1,500 or at something like 3X top of guide at the time. Being the El Cheapo guy that I was, I went and passed on picking any of them up. Fast forward to the summer of '95 or '96 and I remembered being down at a comic convention in Seattle where Harley had the Allentown copies of Wonderworld 13 and 14 for around $1,100 or thereabouts for each of them. Even though I kept saying NO, he was somehow able to craftily convince me to take the WW 13 home with me and to pay for it afterwards if I ended up deciding to keep the book. Betting correctly that I would change my No to a Yes once I had the book at home, decided to give Harley a call about a week later to confirm final payment and to ask about the Allentown Wonderworld 14. Sadly, he had already flipped the book to Fishler who happily snapped it up and jacked it up to double the price that Harley had the book at. As per usual, typical me diddle doddling around and ended up missing another opportunity on a nice book.

I can offer only this small bit of information. About 12 years ago when the financial collapse was in progress, I was seriously considering acquiring one of the Allentown books for my collection. I figured that with only 135 books in the pedigree, odds were that finding copies that weren't locked down would grow harder and harder. From the Master Allentown Collection List, it would appear that this collection was dominated by short runs of a few key and highly desirable GA titles. This being a complete run of Batman #1 to #6, a near complete run of Detective #26 to #38 (missing 'Tec 32, 36, & 37), a complete short run of Cap #1 to #3, a near complete run of Mystery Men #1 to #16 (missing MM #12), and a near complete run of Wonder/Wonderworld #1 to #17 (missing WW #16). I remember doing a head to head comparison of the CGC grades between the Church and Allentown copies of the handful+ Fox books which have come to market so far, and if I remember correctly, the Allentown copies ended up grading either higher or on an equivalent basis to the Church copies except for a couple of the issues.

Out of all of the top GA pedigrees, this is the one that I personally find the most desirable due to the 3 key factors of size, rarity, and high quality. Based upon the simple fact that although the Church books are rightfully acknowleged as the best in the hoby place, it's a simple case of if you miss on one of them, there's another 18,000 to 20,000 other copies you could go after. Definitely not the case when it comes to the Allentown books.

420K is pocket change for the guy. Any chance that Ivy and Halperin are also very well aware of this fact and *ahem* taking appropriate action to ensure that lucky Palmer wins this lot at a "good" price and receives the headlines that he seems to crave for?

Not really if you check out that copy of New Comics 1 which they have listed for $8,250. I wasn't sure about all of them on the list. Superboy1 I was pretty sure of. Are you really trying to tell us that New Comics 1 is not on your short bucket list of books to acquire before they come to cart you away?

Who's sack are they talking about? Yes indeed, can you imagine anybody wanting to pay the same amount of money for a 'Tec 31 when they can acquire this beauty of a book here instead: Don't you love the 'Tec 31-like "appreciation" on the price for this book here as the exact same graded copy sold for $1,782.50 way back in 2003, then flipped for $1,434 in 2006, before being "wisely" held and resold for $1,792.50 in 2016, and then finally flipped once again for $1,434 a year later in 2017. No wonder why poor Sad Sack is crying on the cover of this book here.

Not really if you check out that copy of New Comics 1 which they have listed for $8,250. Especially since I just checked the Heritage archives and a CGC 7.0 graded copy sold in May of 2005 for $9,487.50 with the exact same copy reselling in August of 2010 for $4,780. Well, technically you are correct since a drop of 50% over 5 years is rather a sizeable move.

I would say lots I would say not only money, but also loss of consignors and customers along with a serious hit to the reputation of their auction website. If I was them, I would seriously be thinking about contacting my lawyers weeks ago. Especially since the IT company which they hired might actually be double-dipping or even triple-dipping and being paid off by HA and CL at the same time.

Knowing today's CGC label-centric marketplace, any bets that the seller might even had doubled down by getting the book both pressed and graded.

I would definitely take the red head here, as I have always loved this cover.

Love to hear these stories about the early collecting days from long time time GA collectors. Do you still have your initial Marvel runs complete and intact, or did you end up selling some of them off to fund your GA purchases?