lou_fine

Not sure why you would say they are "undervalued" if they are everywhere, be most issues being available for a buck (or possibly even less)? Sounds more like the definition of "overvlaued" to me.

FTFY Ironically, that phrase comes from the same book that featured Tweedledee and Tweedledum. Tweedledee and Tweedledum??? Are you referring to the two young teen girls that used to work in JFK's "private and personal" typing pool? If so, I don't believe that English grammer would have been their forte as I don't believe this attribute would have been a necessity in terms of their job qualifications to serve at the pleasure of the President.

Well, going through some of these old threads from way back when, it seems a lot of boardies preferred to look at rarity in terms of mainstream comic books that made it all the way through the regular distribution channels and hence, available for sale to the general public. If so, I found an old thread that was started from way back in 2004 with 23 pages of discussion on rare comic books spanning a multi-year time period, as it didn't have its last post until 2010:

Helen Well, even being deaf and blind, I am sure that Helen would not have been dumb enough to throw the kind of money that Gary was throwing around to acquire his comic books at the time. Is this Gary Keller, the same Gary Keller who's listed as an American entrepreneur and author, and also best known as the founder of Keller Williams Realty Interrnational with 180,000 associates. If so, and his net worth is rumoured to be $200M, then I guess the bath that he took on the comic books back then was nothing but a sprinkle of water to him.

It's definitely not any of the ones that were publicly distributed through the regular distribution channels and oddly enough, cannot seem to find it in the Overstreet guide. I believe there were a couple of threads that had a post about this particular book as it apparently went through Mark Wilson: Page 1 - 4th Post by PreHero: And another thread started by Yours truly (refer to Page 1 - 4th Post by buttock): I absolutely loved going through all of those Windex Scarcity Indicies for the various titles that Win @CentaurMan used to do up for us back in the day. It's really too bad and a loss to us that he doesn't seem to spend any more time on these boards here, with only a few posts during the past few years.

The bi-annual Jay Parrino crash and burn trophy. Well, I believe he would have to shared this trophy with the big real estate agent guy (name escapes me right now???) who came onto the comic book scene like a flying tornado paying huge dollars for HG books and then departed the scene a couple years later like he was hit by a Category 5 hurricane.

The above proposition makes me cringe!! Yeah, don't you feel sorry for the Dentist who funded some of his Edgar Church purchases with all of the credit cards that the companies were throwing his way since he probably looked like a good patsy to them when he first came out of dental school?

We have clearly seen this exact scenario which you are alluding to here actually take place with respect to many of the Centaur books over the past few years. Not exactly sure why you would say that non-key GA books are undervalued simply because there are fewer copies of them around? Especially since I believe that the eventual price of a book is determined by the supply and demand for the particular book in question. Since the collecting of vintage comic books are still largely seen as a collectible, I believe the demand side of the vlauation equation would tend to have an overriding factor in comparison to the supply side of the valuation equation. For example, even though there has been a large supply of Hulk 181's available in the marketplace over the years, prices have continued to rocket up in an accelerating pace due to the overwhelming demand for the book. On the other hand, although there is a very low supply of the Platinum Age books (i.e. such as Famous Funnies, Feature Books, Popular, etc.) or the very early pre-hero DC books (i.e. such as New Fun, New Comics, New Adeventure, etc.) prices have gone up at a much more tepid pace becuase the demand for these early non-super hero books are just not there in the current marketplace. In addition, true rarity always tends to hurt the price of a book simply due to the fact that by hardly ever coming into the marketplace, there is a lack of turnover in the book to generate and reinforce upward price movements going forward at the same pace as much more readily available books. As for your specific examples like Bulletman 10, Whiz 103, and CMJ 38, these are really non-key mid-run books that do not tend to draw as much demand interest from both a collectible and investment point of view. Especially in today's current marketplace where books are so expensive that the main focus are much more so on the keys and classic cover books. As a result, what you may think are scarcer books due to the lower census count such as the ones you mentioned above are probably also caused in large part due to the simple fact that collectors don't think it's worthwhile to have these non-key mid-run books graded and slabbed, as opposed to the keys and classic covers where the much bigger money is.

Actually, some of the medical and scientiful experts claim that a lot of this seems to be a bit overblown with all of the media hype and impact of social media nowadays. Especially considering that at this current point in time, there is only one confirmed and one presumed case of coronavirus in Canada, and yet there are apparently 12,500 cases of regular influenza, which in some cases are also deadly. As a safety precaution and your own peace of mind though, I strongly suggest that all of you board members here turf out all of your Bat related books before the good citizens riot and hunt you down as revenge against this nefarious coronavirus. I am more than willing to sacrifice my own well-being by offering to take all of your Batman 1's, 'Tec 27, and other pre-Robin 'Tec books off your hands before the coronavirus infected crowds come looking for you.

Yep, books like that are more about the history than price. +1 I would definitely agree with you that these early pioneer books are so much more about the history and roots of the comic book medium which we all enjoy so much. Unfortunately, since they don't involve masked heroes who wear their undies on the outside , they are definitely very much underappreciated in the current comic book marketplace relative to where they should really be. Of course, that's only my own personal point of view as I went from buying new comics off the newsstand right to this so-called Platinum Age for a short stint back in the late 80's before I moved and finally settled into GA collecting. I still remember my first trip down to the SD Con in the very early 90's and bumping into a private collector who was trying to offload a group of 16 GA books to some of the dealers down there. Ended up giving him a small deposit of around $2K for the group of books and he allowed me to take back home 4 books from SD since he was planning to fly up with his girlfriend to complete the rest of the transaction a couple of weeks later. Couldn't remember what the other 2 books were as they were most likely your typical super hero books, but I clearly remembered taking both the Funnies on Parade and the Famous Funnies, A Carnival of Comics right off the bat just in case he ended up changing his mind on the transaction in the end (which he did not). I would tend to agree with you that Funnies on Parade is possibly undervalued considering that it has always been recognized as the FIRST comic book right from when comic book collecting first started and also the fact that it had a relatively small print run of only 10,000 copies. Just took a look back at the Overstreet guides for both of these books and if the Funnies on Parade has underperformed relative to the rest of the GA market, it's actually performed like a rocket ship when compared to the Carnival of Comics. While the Funnies on Parade has gone up three-fold in mid-grade guide over the intervening almost 30 years, the Carnival of Comics have gone up by only a measly 50% or assuredly at less than the rate of inflation during this same time frame. I guess I really can't complain too much since this deal did allow me to snag 2 key historical books along with some key classic cover superhero books which made up the financial end of the deal, with a couple of them increasing by 40X (or definitely more than the rate of inflation) in this almost 30 years time frame.

Could you post the list of the 50 by chance? I went to find the magazine and the couple listed on ebay are $50+ Ok, since I was too lazy to go and dig through my closet again, I just did a simple Google search and found a prior board discussion from 2008 on this exact same topic. Much more useful than just the article since it also includes 7 pages on board discussion complaints on the usefulness and uselessness of this survey (list is on bottom of Page 1 and top of Page 2) here: Looks like I was actually too lazy to flip the page when I went back to check the actual list for my post as the 5-way tie for 4th place in the U.S.A regularly distributed comic books was actually a 9-way tie with an estimated 10 copies remaining in existence. Looks like the boardies were right when they stated that Danger Trail #3 should not have been part of this group as the CGC census indicates a total of 33 graded copies to this point in time. Interesting to note that the CGC census also indicates 2 different versions for Famous Funnies #2, the first being the regular (I would assume) cover date of September 1934 with a total of 19 graded copies to date and then a second being the December 1934 cover dated copy with only 3 graded copies to date.

Actually, no real surprise here and I would certainly expect the same mathematical scenario to apply to all vintage collectible comic books. From a common sense point of view, it's only normal to expect valuations to increase at a higher percentage rate when the original starting valuations are lower, as opposed to when they are substantially higher. Especially since higher price points and in particular for the higher dollar-vlaue books, usually means that there will be less buyers for these books as they are simply being priced out of the market. All we need do is to take a look at some of the rather extreme multiples that entry level copies of HTF key and/or classic cover high dollar value books are going for in today's marketplace. The old saying of throwing out the guide when it comes to valuations of books in uber HG condition probably should also apply to uber low grade condition HTF expensive keys or classic cover books, with collectors now more than willing to open up their wallets just to obtain an affordable copy of the book.

Isn't it interesting how folks use the sale of Berk's collection to justify so many varying, and often conflicting, points of view? Some of the same folks who were saying he sold too soon, or sold in such a way that he left money on the table, also will say that he was ahead if the impending stagnation of the market. His getting out of the market either signalled the end or marked the beginning by fueling the recent surge. Are you sure you haven't missed a few little nuggets of wisdom in there?

Yes, from a relative point of view, I would tend to agree with you although there are different definitions of "done well". I am sure that it was a whole lot easier for Jon's books to hit the multiples of guide that most of them did acheive, since it was sold during a rising market when multiples of guide was much more common for HTF GA books. From my personal POV, they probably would have had a much tougher time hitting these same multiples if they had been sold say 10 years ago when GA books were selling for much closer to guide, collectors were still tentative at paying huge prices for any (i.e. non high grades) copy of a book just to be able to acquire a copy, PLOD's were still considered to be PLOD's, etc.

Hey, who's that suspicious looking character on the left with his back to us? Looks like he's trying to case the joint to stuff some more goodies in his bag of stolen items that he's holding in his right hand. I hope somebody called the cops on him and he's locked up in the clinker before absconding back across the border with his bag of stolen goodies.

This is a well articulated POV, though the cycle may be a bit slower for some genres +2 Yes indeed, as history has clearly shown us that these periods of pause or stagnation between meteoric rises can indeed be very long. Just take a look at the recently hot Fox line of books and the still hot classic cover books as their extended pause or slow growth from the last big meteoric rise back in the mid-90's lasted for just over 20 years until these books became red hot again during the past few years. There was a big spike up for a couple of years when CGC first came onto the scene as collectors were trying to get a handle on the certification market, but it seemingly could not hold as prices on most of the books came back down when the books re-entered into the marketplace. This is probably one of the reasons why long time collectors like Jon Berk and many of the others decided to take this opportunity to dispose of either all or a portion of their long held (i.e. decades long) collections while the market was at a seeming high. Especially since you can never tell how long the heat will stay on in the marketplace and for the old timers, they might not want to wait around or even be there for the next meteoric rise if it's going to take another 20 years. I will admit though, that this current fire in the marketplace still does seem to be burning pretty brightly and longer than usual as it's cycling through to the various sectors within the comic book collecting hobby place.

Great video and noticed the nice T-shirt from the slopes of Whistler here. When was you up here in the nearby Whistler area and is this part of a regular winter trip for you?

Well, if it's for insurance purposes and you want to use the Overstreet guide, I would simply go for the arithmetical differences between the grades because that is what auction houses like CC and CL do when they come up with guide estimates for the in-between grades. Heritage doesn't do this calculation as they will only list the stated Overstreet grades and valuations (i.e. the below and above stated grades) and hence I assume, leave it up to you to determine your own estimates for the in-between grades. At the front of the comic book pricing section of the Overstreet guide, it states "The minimum price listed is $3.00, the cover price for current new comics. Many books listed at this price can be found in $1.00 boxes at conventions or comic stores". The way I interpret this is that if he lists a book at $3.00 in a particular grade; it most likely would sell for only a dollar if lucky. Anything in lesser condition than what is listed in the guide would most likely have NO real collectible value and should probably not even be taken in account for insurance purposes due to its insignificant value. This is definitely a good idea and you should probably ask them if the insurance value is to be based upon your replacement value or should it be based upon what you can realistically sell the book for. Especially since these 2 numbers will not be the same. I suspect their answer will be the replacement value since that is generally how insurance always works. The other key point to note is that the Overstreet guide is just that, a guide and really nothing more. True vintage collectible comic books will often sell for huge premiums or even multiples of guide prices in all grades across the entire condition spectrum, while many of the more recent non-key mid-run books from the past 45 years will only be able to sell at a big discount to their listed guide valuations.

Wow, didn't realize that back issues of the CBM magazines were going for that kind of money. I already threw it back into the far corner of the closet and will need to dig it back out again when I get a chance later. Clearly, the majority of the rarest ones were books which I would not consider to be comic books in the sense that they were not distributed through the regular channels. These would include all of the ashcans which were printed only for copyright purposes plus variant versions of what are now called promotional comics published by the Catechetical Guild like Blood Is the Harvest and If The Devil Would Talk. Definitely books which I think should have been left off this Top 50 list since they did not received any true circulation through the regular distribution channels at the time. If I remember correctly, based upon the actual comic books which i had listed in my post above, the range was from an estimated only 3 copies in existence for the Popeye Feature Book and then up to an estimated only 10 copies in existence for the group in the 5-way tie for 4th spot. Based upon a look at the CGC Population Census Report, McAlpine might need to switch the 2 Feature Books around since the census for the Popeye indicates a total of 3 Universal copies plus a further 1 Restored copy, while the census coun for the Tracy Feature Book only indicates 1 Restored copy up to this current point in time. Looks like the census counts for all of the other ones which I have listed are still running below McAlpine's estimates to this point in time.

Or if you are lucky like Chuck, you could have gotten approximately 20,000 of them in pristine condition back in the mid to late 70's for only a dime each or for the grand sum of only a measly $2,000.

It most definitely is as it is listed in Position #127, or just one spot ahead of Star Rangers Comics #1.

It's possible this is the one. Actually loved the early issues of the CBM magazines with their wealth of information and thought Gary and his wife did a super fantastic job on them. Too lazy to dig out my copy, Now, that I finally got around to digging out my copy, I noticed that CBM #11 was another informative issue featuring "The 50 Rarest Golden Age Comic Books". Looks like quite a few of these early CBM's attempted to give some idea on the scarcity of certain GA titles. This particular issue of CBM was no exception as it also had written articles on "The Scarcity of Golden Age DC - Installment 1: Adventure Comics #40-#102" by Dr. Pat Kochanek and the super rare series "Wow, What A Magazine" by our own Jon Berk. Looks like the 50 Rarest GA Comics Books article was authored by Duncan McAlpine, a long time comic book dealer out of England. Excluding the usual ash can and other non-distributed comic books, it looks like the rarest GA U.S.A. distributed comic book was the Feature Book - nn Popeye (1937); followed by Wow, What a Magazine #2 (1936); Feature Book - nn Tracy (1937), and then in fourth place was a 5-way tie between Famous Funnies Series 1 (1933), the first 2 issues of the pre-Centaur Comics Magazine books from 1936, and the 2 DC pre-hero rarities (i.e. New Comics 2 and New Fun 2 from 1936 and 1935 respectively). So, I guess even though McAlpine lived and worked out of the England, he must have kept on top of the American comic book marketplace scene some almost 30 years ago because even the current CGC Population Census Report indicates that all 8 of these particular books noted here still have only low single digit counts in the census report after some 20 long years of grading and slabbing books.

Well, it looks like I have only 3 books from the bottom pictured portion of this list , but shouldn't really complain too much since it looks like I have 7 out of the first 10 on the list, including the first 2 books on the above chart. Only problem is that I don't believe they've gone up in value very much over the years, if at all, but definitely nice to have from a historical collector's point of view.

So 80 Very close, but no cigar for the both of you here this time. Decided to take out my copy of CBM 13 and it looks like Funny Picture Stories came in at #92, just one spot behind Funny Pages #6 in Position #91.

Well, I was going to say 1935 except that I have 2 of the very early DC pre-hero books from that year. So, I guess I would have to say 1936 since I have only 1 of the pre-hero DC's for that year and that's also the year the pre-Centaur books started up.