lou_fine

Talking about named Provenance collections, it seems that we are sure seen quite a few of these over the years. Most of them appear to be be either from famous celebrity collectors who actually don't have a long history in the hobby or from long time collectors in the hobby with extensive collections who most of the marketplace had never heard of before. One of the few named Provenance collections which I felt was fully deserved was the Jon Berk Collection which was released into the marketplace back in 2017. Which then beg the question of why the Bob Overstreet Collection never received its own provenance since it was substantially much larger then the Berk collection and also somebody which absolutely everybody in the hobby would recognize right off the bat? I assume the reason is that it was unveiled and released into the marketplace about 5 years before CGC even opened their doors. And yet, they seem to have no problems recognizing pedigrees which had been released decades before they ever opened their doors.

 Ahhh......I see now, they've both ends of the spectrum covered here. It's actually a collection which is really a subset of the original Gaines File Copy.

Oh yes, it definitely would if you include some of the old Doc Savage comics such as this one here:

What I find totally confusing about this whole thing is that their headine announces 5 new pedigrees and then they proceed to provide details on 6 new pedigrees. So, is the Annie Gaines Ashton one of the new pedigrees or is it simply a collection or just a subset of the original Gaines File pedigree since it is not included as one of the 59 official recognized pedigrees?

I really don't believe it was ever fixed completely. I believe it was a combination of them being able to address the real bad NR examples and the customer base just getting used to the less bad ones which are most likley still a continuing problem every now and then. I think this is just the new normal and something to be expected if you want to have your books graded and slabbed with CGC.

The honest, but sad truth is never ever strike-worthy.

The only problem with this particular strategy here is that in this day and age of the CGC speculators and flippers, holding onto a book like this for even a few weeks is probably far too long a time frame for them to even think of enduring. Not like old fogies like me who plucked their HG copy off the display wall for the then inordinate sum of $5 and still holding onto it for all these long decades.

Weel, this CGC 9.8 graded copy here didn't have a CVA sticker on it and managed to fetch $38,400 last year: Then again, the CVA sticker might simply have been out of sight and buried in one of the interior pages to denote above PQ relative to the WP designation.

Just noticed the sale of this CGC 9.8 graded copy of Hulk 181 in tonight's CL auction for $27,250: Any idea if this is simply the continuation of the cool down for a few of the recent super red hot books from last year like AF 15 and Hulk 181? Especially since I believe 9.8 graded copies of Hulk 181 was fetching well into the $30K+ price range last year or is this due in part to the rather fugly looking flattened white line running down the spine of this off-centered copy here?

Oh wowza, definitely good to know as I never realized that Jumbo 10 and 11 could be deemed as Planet try-out cover books. Being the contrarian as per usual, I've always preferred the bright pinkish red colored Jumbo 11 cover over the more muted yellow colored Jumbo 10 cover: Also much more in the classic Fine artwork in terms of the details in the back ground similar to some of his other classic covers such as National 7, Hit 1, etc. What I've never been able to figure out is why Overstreet has never gotten around to breaking out this particular issue and simply has it lumped in with the other not as well crafted Eisner cover issues that came after this one. Especially since I still remember Fishler having one way back in the day about 25 years ago and charging a huge premium for it at the time, given the apparent scarcity of this particular issue in grade along with the classic Fine cover artwork. Looking back now, definitely another missed opportunity.

Well, did you receive your verdict back from the gang at CGC yet?

A1K; Well, from all of these pictures that you've posted here, it's clear to me that you sould probably come up with another name for yourself since you are just so much more than just Action 1. This picture right here is all about the long and often forgotten, but the real and true history of the comic book hobby. I hope you was astute enough to have hung onto a few of these true gems within the hobby while you was taking your sabbatical away from here?

Can I join in..............me three!!! I guess I've always gone for PL 23 over PL 17, especially given the rather price discrepancy between the 2 books.

I believe we all know the reason why this statement is being made all the time. It is clearly to CCG's overall business model to have CGC spew out this line in the hopes of encouraging this practice so that that everybody along the entire food chain can make much more money in the end. And yet, they would then spew out the line and have us believe that even when done properly, micro-trimming (as opposed to trimming which is a completely different animal) is always detectable.

RMA; Appreciate your long and obviously well though out views on this whole iss.ue here, even though I may not always agree with all of it. Then again, that's exactly what these boards are here for as collectors shared their various viewpoints. The part that I found rather confusing was your first line here right at the top: You seem to say that the work itself is not the issue as the real issue is and has always been about disclosure or shall we say the lack of disclosure. Yet, right in the next sentence you seem to contradict your own point by saying that disclosure is clearly not an issue since restorers are advertising their services. Just wondering if you can explain this apparent contradiction here, especially in light of the fact that restorers have been advertising their services for as long as I have known it. Even as far back as the days of Bill Sarill and all of the Restoration Lab ads that I used to see all those many long decades ago. Maybe this is also why some dealers did not deemed it necessary to disclose the work they had done on their books back in the so-called days of the Wild Wild West. I am just hoping that you are not implying that the mere presence of industry ads for restoration services in general is adequate to constitute sufficient disclosure of restoration for all books sold in the marketplace. If so, I would have to definitely disagree with your specific point of view here as this is quite a bit of a stretch to say that advertising in general is the same as disclosure for a specific book.

I don’t even wanna think about that You are most definitely correct in stating that a CGC 6.5 is a CGC 6.5. Definitely also nothing to sniff at when it comes to a Cap 3. I also believe that this hoopla about the one additional detached center wrap might have actually been an opportunity that you was fortunate enough to have lucked into as it allowed you to purchase the book at a price point that was almost $30K below the last time it had sold for. Like I have already stated, it presents very nicely relative to its assigned grade and I am fully confident you will do much more than fine when it comes time for you to sell it. Definitely a win win scenario here since you also have the added bonus of getting to own and enjoy the book in the interim.

That's actually pretty dead on to use the word "relative" because that's exactly how I use the price guide, as opposed to the actual dollar valuations themselves. I guess that's why it bothers me when they make clear "relative" valuation errors like having Captain America 2 at a higher valuation than Cap 3 when the entire marketplace has placed a far greater relative value on Cap 3 for well going onto a full decade already.

Clark; Sorry to hear about the pressing damage on the book, but nevertheless, you can never ever go wrong with having a Cap 3 book in your keeper collection. Needless to say though, your copy is definitely one that I would absolutely love to have in my personal collection if my pockets were deep enough, as it looks absolutely gorgeous relative to its assigned grade. Based upon the 2-year time frame which you had mentioned that the book was initially sold and then eventually brought by you, Matt would be correct in saying that he personally did not pressed the book as he had already moved over to the CGC grading side of the business by then. It should be noted though that "already pressed by someone else" certainly does not exclude the fact that it might have been pressed by the boys down the hall from them. Possibly the same situation with the CGC 7.0 graded copy of Detective 80 which was part of the same submission and hence graded on the same day and which also had 2 center wraps detached. Especially since there had been quite a few stories on the boards here about how some books were inadvertently being damaged upon pressing after Matt had left that side of the business. Some conspiracy theorists here have even gone so far as to say that CGC was aware of this problem and as a result, had discounted the resulting damage to some extent and given it a bit of a pass when it came to grading since they knew by the tell tale damage that the work had been done by the boys down the hall. Since I do not send books in for potential enhancement and subsequent grading, I do not know if there is any truth to these rumours or not. I would most certainly hope not though.

You're not wrong. Although some of us might indeed see this as not only a potential conflict of interest, but a real conflict of interest, CCG being a business entity would view this as a vertical integration strategy to help ensure success for its ownership. Especially when we have witnessed some of the easily fixable and hence additional revenue generating defects moved right up to the top of CGC's hit parade when it comes to their undisclosed grading standards. Certainly a much bigger hammer being applied to these types of defects as compared to the old days, even though some of them are so near invisible and can only be seen by holding the book up to the light at a certain angle. On the other hand, some of the obviously visible defects but not fixable ones which can be seen from even outside the dealer's booth are seemingly being hit only by a light feather in comparison, when it comes to their undisclosed grading standards. The introduction of the new pedigree label certainly also presents a potential conflict of interest scenario here. I still remember the Atlantic City books and the Billy Wright books coming into the marketplace around the same time. I personally would have much preferred an Atlantic City book over the Billy Wright books if I had the money to play in that deep end of the pool, which I sad to say do not. Especially when you take into account how nice the Atlantic City copies for the Action 10, Action 13, Cap 1, were amongst many other select books. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but with possible vertical integration at play here, guess which one received the official pedigree designation and which one did not. Makes me wonder if it had anything to do with the venue which they were auctioned off at (i.e. Atlantic City on CC and Billy Wright on Heritage), along with the quantity size of the collection as opposed to the quality per se. I guess as collectors, we must be happy that CGC has now decided to anoint 2 truly brand new pedigrees in terms of the Murphy Anderson File Copy and Annie Gaines Ashton pedigree books. And as luck would have it, guess which 2 just designated brand new pedigrees will now be coming fresh to market and available exclusively for you to bid on at some auction site which I have never heard of, namely Heritage itself. I didn't bother to include the mid-grade, but rather sizeable Cookville, Eldon, and Harold Curtis collections which have been around for awhile, but I assume this would definitely encourage the owners of these books to at a minimum send them in for reholdering in the hopes of increasing their value. At a cost to the collectors of course, which they will gladly and happily pay if they want maximum dollars for their books in the end. Yes indeed, what you may see as a potential conflict of interest is really nothing more than a simple good business strategy to ensure that instead of generating revenue from a item (i.e. your book) only once, CCG's vertical integration model will help to ensure they generate additional revenue as many times as possible from the exact same book through their various services which they provide to the collecting base.

I believe you are taking much too narrow of a viewpoint on this issue. It's all really part of a much bigger picture and you have to understand that CCG is really a business, and as such, their main objective is simply to generate as many additional revenue streams as possible in order to maximize both their top and bottom lines like any successful business would seek to do. This is all a part of their overall business model right from the get go and all you really need to do is simply take a look at all of the disclosed and subtle undisclosed changes that have taken place in the grading game over time since CGC first opened its doors.

Now, this is exactly my line of thinking also. Planet 1 should most definitely qualify since the entire Planet run is all about si-fi and nothing else, whereas virtually all of the other books in the list are what I would call classic si-fi covers interspersed in a run of what would generally be considered as a non si-fi title.

why would they have cracked it? I can think of 10,695 reasons why. Especially now that it's a slightly higher graded copy in the hands of Steve Ritter. I believe this is a common practice of WW as they quite often buy a book from the major auction sites and either do the old CPR routine or simply sell it raw at a slightly higher grade.

Well, I hope you was wise and astute enough to have left some books behind as part of your investment portfolio before you left the hobby. Now, that is definitely something that most investors should do as it's always good to have a more diversified investment portfolio.

They really need to step it up pretty quick. The All American 16 is by far the best thing posted so far. Definitely an understatement here as it looks like they have only about 3 weeks to go before the auction kicks off and their lot count is less than 1/4 of the one for CC's upcoming Event Auction in August/September. Of course, I would have to admit that CL would not be my go to site for consigning GA books which seems to be the hottest part of the market right now. Now, if it was non-uber HG early SA Marvels, or any of the latest hot and heavy BA and CA keys, now those consignments would indeed be heading CL's way.

I would tend to both agree and diasagree with your point here. Go figure that. Now, if it was one of these relatively easier to find one of many warehouse file copies from the very late 50's or early 60's such this one here: maybe not so much, but if it was one of these relatively much harder to find one of one true office copies from the late 30's or very early 40's such as this one here: I actually feel this is a pedigree worthy copy and would have absolutely no problem with it being designated as so with the new pedigree label.