lou_fine

Now, now........he did say that he would find out on Monday once they ship the books. You do realize that there are still many Mondays left in this year.

What, no love from any of you for the long lost and forgotten Avengers 93? I remember when this book by Adams along with the rest of the run up to issue 100 by both Smith and himself were the books to get at the time. If I remember correctly, Avengers 93 was worth more than all of these books in the OS guide at the time, including both ASM 121 and 122.

$10 by late May? That would be quite a shocking price (equivalent to a $2.95 cover price book being $100 in two months today.) Ok, probably not late May then, more like June after the fans had found out how popular the movie was. What's so unbelievable about a scorching hot book being at the equivalent of $100 after a few months? Have we forgotten about some of the early Valiants along with some of the Wizard driven hot books once they got their hype machine running at full speed. It's a case of when you are hot, you are hot, and Star Wars was indeed hot back then after it first came out. Why, even Overstreet had the book listed at something like $5 in his price guide and we all know how slow Bob is when it comes to raising prices on books, especially on new ones.

Star Wars was 1977, not 2007. The direct market barely existed and certainly wasn't influential to the point that print runs were based on initial orders from specialty shops. Of course I was not referring to sending the request all the way up the ladder so that the print run could be increased. I was referring to only increasing the number of copies to be shipped to the individual comic shops, if requested. Do you remember those print distribution and copies sold statistics which they used to have in all of the comics once a year. Needless to say, the sell-through rates on almost all of the titles were actually pretty abysmal. There were probably more unsold copies sitting in the distribution warehouses than there were sold copies sitting in the hands of collectors and purchasers. So, no increase in the actual print runs. More a case of increasing the shipments to the comic shops as requested through better allocation of the initial distribution along with processing reorder requests by the comic shops from unsold returns from the newsstand stores.

You have to realize that we are talking about almost 40 years ago where the distribution channels were fragmented and light years apart from the Diamond monopoly in place today. If you listen to Jay Maybruk's interviews on Vinnie's Comic Zone, it's simply amazing as to what could be found in some of those distribution warehouses at the time. For example, 60 Spidey #1's and 20 FF #1's along with 10 to 20 copies of every other Marvel comic ever published. Other examples included finding 200 DD #1's and another with 6 unopened boxes or 600 copies of FF #48. Paying $18K for a warehouse filled with 150,000 to 200,000 comics in which they had to sort and wholesale them off in a 48 to 72 hour time period, and then being left with a carload of books as their profit margin. I guess when Overstreet talked about distribution or warehouse finds in the early price guides of the 70's, these finds were what he was referring to. Interesting insight on some of the personalities involved in the comics at the time who would subsequently become power players in the industry. Stephen Fishler who started with Jay and Sparkle City as a teenager before forming his own company. Steve Geppi back in the days as a dealer and collector before he got into the distribution side of the business. We can also hear his opinions of industry stalwarts at the time such as Chuck Rozanski, Ernie Gerber, etc. One of the best links that I have ever clicked onto on the boards here as it is an absolutely fascinating and gripping listen if you are a long-term collector of comic books. For the non-collector though, it would probably put them to sleep after a few minutes. (thumbs u

+1 Exactly right! Like JC, I only kept one copy of the initial print run for the first 6 issues of the run. Unfortunately for me, I kept them in a closet with an adjacent wall which had a bathroom tub on the other side. Never got around to recaulking the tub and as a result, ended up with some water damage on these issues. Should had listened to my wife who had nagged me for years to recaulk the tub.

Release date for Star Wars 1 was Friday, April 15, 1977. Two and a half weeks. Actually, if you check Google, it is relatively easy to find out the shipped dates and on-sale dates for the Star Wars comic book, which are as follows: 1) Star Wars #1 had a shipped date of March 8th and an on-sale date of April 12th; 2) Star Wars #2 had a shipped date of April 12th and an on-sale date of May 10th; while 3) Star Wars #3 had a shipped date of May 10th and an on-sale date of June 7th. Since the Star Wars movie was not released until May 25th, this means that the first 2 issues were already out on the newsstand well prior to the movie's release. With a shipped date of May 10th for SW 3, this means that comic shops probably did not increase their initial orders for the Star Wars comic book due to the popularity of the movie until issue #4.

This. Are the two of you sure about this? I remember the Star Wars comic book did not catch on until issue #3 was out or around the time the movie debuted. I remember Star Wars #1 were already going for $10 or more at the time. If there was any hoarding done, it was probably not done by the collectors of the day. Sure, there were more copies available in the marketplace afterwards, but these were most likely from unsold initial returns sitting in the distributor's warehouses which were now being actively hunted down. This was probably one of the first "off the shelf" books to go up in price like that so quickly and was most likely one of the first books to start the subsequent hoarding that would become commonplace with Modern books. Anybody remember Dazzler #1, now that was a really hoarded book. Yes we're sure. Star Wars 1 is not a "rare" book. It was bought and stored in hoards as the movie was an immediate success. As many like to say on these boards, "it is as common as dirt". -J Jay; In my earlier response, nowhere at all did I say or even implied that SW 1 was "rare". In fact, nothing published by Marvel would even come close to being rare as the definition of rare in this hobby is less than 20 copies in existence. What I am questioning is your timeline as you seem to imply that SW 1 was being hoarded by the collectors since the movie was a success. You do realize that SW 1 was on sale almost 2 months before the release of the movie. In fact, even SW 2 was on sale for almost a month before the movie's release. So, if the movie's success was the driving force for collectors to hoard the Star Wars books, this could not be pre-emptively" done until SW 3 which hit the shelves about 2 weeks after the release of the movie. It would have been pretty hard for collectors to go back and hoard something 2 months after it had already been released, with copies already sold to initial customers, and unsold copies either retained as back issues by the comic shops or returned to the distributors by the stores. I clearly remember the comic shops stating that they would attempt to place a reorder with their distributors after the movie had come out, but could not guarantee if they were going to be successful at acquiring any copies. Looks like some of them were successful or smart enough to pull it off their back stock because a few of the stores did have them for sale after the movie, but at something like $10 a pop. So yes, definitely a book that is "as common as dirt" just like any other Marvel book, but certainly no mass pre-emptive hoarding by the collectors of the day from what I could see.

One owner for 38 years who never read them seems like they should be in high grade. If they were bought and distributed the way most newsstand copies were distributed at the time, actually, several of them would NOT be in high grade because of the way they would have been bound. Nobody else has doubts about the story though? Bought for 24 cents each, sold three weeks afterwards (before the movie came out if this is true) for $3, etc. Well, based upon an earlier post from the original poster as seen below, it clearly states that the books came from a comic distributor as opposed to a general newsstand distributor: Yes, general newsstand distributors would normally bound their shipments with wire, but comic book distributors would normally send out their comic books in 100-count boxes. Would the 24 cents price received for a 30 cents retail comic book not be more than what a comic distributor would normally receive anyways, as this amount appears to be more in line with what a general newsstand distributor would receive. I would not be at all surprised if a good portion of them slabs out above 9.0; although I certainly don't think that sending in 100 copies at one time is conducive for you to receive any type of break when it comes to CGC grading. In fact, I somehow feel that CGC would be rather incentivized to keep the census count down on the number of uber HG copies of this book.

This. Are the two of you sure about this? I remember the Star Wars comic book did not catch on until issue #3 was out or around the time the movie debuted. I remember Star Wars #1 were already going for $10 or more at the time. If there was any hoarding done, it was probably not done by the collectors of the day. Sure, there were more copies available in the marketplace afterwards, but these were most likely from unsold initial returns sitting in the distributor's warehouses which were now being actively hunted down. This was probably one of the first "off the shelf" books to go up in price like that so quickly and was most likely one of the first books to start the subsequent hoarding that would become commonplace with Modern books. Anybody remember Dazzler #1, now that was a really hoarded book.

+1 Your above analysis coupled with the fact that this is an absolutely beautiful presenting copy makes this a definite shoo-in for the $100K+ club.

You've definitely put a lot of time and thought into this, with all of the data you've been able to compile. (thumbs u Interesting to note the impact of the movies and TV shows with over 5.5K of new submissions for NM 98, over 1.2K of new submissions for Iron Man 55, over 1.6K of new submissions for Walking Dead #1, etc. Rather surprised that More Fun 73 with the introduction of Aquaman, Green Arrow, and Speedy came in near the bottom of the list with only 8 new submissions over the previous 5 years. Especially since this appears to be the only GA book that has really been significantly affected by the movie and TV hype, as evident with prices on this book going for multiples over what they were selling for just last year. Wonder if the recent explosion of sky high prices on this particular book will drag out more copies to be slabbed and sold.

According to the attached link (with pictures), it looks like the collection surfaced out of Texas in 1990: http://passionforcomics.weebly.com/ Yes. The first time I saw any of them was in the summer of '90 at a smallish local show. Greg Buls was set up and started unloading and displaying all of these cool Timelys. I bought four books then. Wish I had bought more but I had only recently opened my first store and I was still a little cash-poor and afraid to take risk. What was your impression on the overall condition of the books that you saw? From reading the various articles on this collection, it would almost seem that the bulk of the collection was subject to improper storage and would require subsequent cleaning and pressing by Susan in order to get rid of the bends and warps. Any insight on your part would be greatly appreciated since you were actually there at the time of the collection's initial public display.

According to the attached link (with pictures), it looks like the collection surfaced out of Texas in 1990: http://passionforcomics.weebly.com/

After his amateur efforts were finally exposed, Anderson worked quietly through Susan C. to professionally 'improve' books - my guess is that's where any Macon work was done (and no disparagement meant towards Susan C., I think she's terrific). Some of the Macons are indeed coming back PLOD's. I am actually surprised that Susan would use the aqueous method for cleaning these books. Of course it was a different time then as Mark Wilson was notorious for wet cleaning most of his books as he did not considered it to be restoration at the time.

Was this another cleaned and pressed PLOD or did it come back as being an unrestored blue? Any idea what condition the Recil All-American 16 was in?

Well, from these few examples so far coupled with what shows up on the Heritage archives, I am surprised this collection of books was given a pedigree designation in the first place.

I was going through the Comic Pedigree website last week and noticed that the Recil Macon books apparently have the lowest percentage of their books slabbed. The site states that there are only 23 Recil Macon books that have been slabbed, although it's quite likely that this info is out-of-date, considering how far behind they are with respect to anything to do with their pedigree book. Anyways, it got me to thinking a bit more about this mysterious pedigree in terms of the following: 1) Where are all the Recil Macon's since there are supposed to be a thousand of them in total, with another website stating that this collection could numbered in the thousands; 2) Are the bulk of them being tightly held in the private collections of a few large collectors since it should be relatively easy to identify a Recil Macon book if they ever do come to market; 3) Are they not being slabbed because there is a high potential they could come back as PLOD's since some of them were apparently cleaned and pressed as many of them were warped from improper storage; and 4) What percentage of the slabbed Recil Macon's are coming out with blue labels as opposed to PLOD's? Just curious as to why these books are not showing up in the marketplace?

Just noticed that this is the exact same cover image and acknowledged as such that was used for the $15 Silver Superman coin issued in Canada back in August. (thumbs u I still prefer the Action 1 cover image that was used for the $10 silver coin, although it was a tad on the small side as compared to the other coins, especially the $20 one.

For that matter, in the United States – and only there – Mario Bros (or Sonic, later on) was already more popular than Mickey Mouse in the late 1980s and in the 1990s. Does that mean all of those pre-Valiant Mario Bros. comic books from the very early 90's are worth as much as NM 98? Or how about the Star Trek Next Generation comics from DC since they have had a series of successful movies based upon these characters already? Or is the irrational exuberance and insanity limited only to the Marvel related books such as NM 98 where there are absolute thousands of uber HG copies already graded and probably tens of thousands more sitting in private collections still to be graded.

Well, I most definitely would not put Harley Quinn ahead of either the Hulk or Wonder Woman as she has not yet stood the test of time!

You guys are all approaching this from the wrong angle! Yes, everybody already knows that this book is as common as dirt with thousands of copies already graded in CGC 9.6 or 9.8 condition, yet super rare and impossible to get in CGC 2.0 or lower. That's where the big money should really be going!

Congrats on completing your dream run! Have always loved the cover on issue 61 along with most of the other later Planet issues. Never realize that 61 was relatively tougher to find in grade, but maybe just a case of bad timing on your part since 2 others showed up right afterward your pickup.

Does this mean that we should be jumping into all of the Solomon Grundy appearance books such as AA 61 and AS 33 before their price points all move into the stratosphere? Or is this phenomenon only limited to the rabid Marvel speculators who will be more than happy to empty out their wallets on any hint or rumours of a TV or movie character tie-in appearance?

...and even in the world of Overstreet, using its own limited and selective methodology this is your game changer: http://www.ebay.com/itm/INCREDIBLE-HULK-181-WHITE-PAGES-CGC-GRADED-9-2-NOVEMBER-1974-/400755267796?pt=US_Comic_Books&hash=item5d4ee018d4 -J. Hey Jaydog; You can't be serious here and must just be putting us on! If not, then from your link above, it's ovbious to me that you have absolutlley no concept as to the meaning of the valuations in the OS guide. The current edition of the guide just came out last month and attempts to based their valuations on reported actual sales for the previous year (i.e. for the year 2013) as opposed to possible sales for the coming year. The example from your link is for a auction that was completed on August 18th of the year 2014. This means that this sale should be reflected in next year's edition of the OS guide which is not due out until July of the year 2015. So yes, it is quite conceivable that next year's guide could indeed have Hulk 181 at a higher valuation than Cerebus 1 if there are continuing sales of 9.2 Hulk 181's at this same level and there are no 9.2 or higher Cerebus sales. On the other hand, I would have no problem with OS maintaining a higher valuation for Cerebus 1 if there are higher dollar value sales for Cerebus 1 or if the majority of the Hulk 181 sales for the balance of the year is not supported by this one particular sale at $3,199. Now if this were the Wizard price guide you was referring to, I wouuld understand completely as they always attempted to forecast or set prices before they actually occurred. Particularly funny when they were caught with their undies down around their ankles as some of their supposedly Top 10 hot books were listed with huge price increases even when they had not yet hit the newsstand as they were late. BTW: I am still waiting for you to countered my 5 points from above as your attached link certainly did not do the job. I will, however, apologize and admit that you are completely right if you can prove to me and everybody else on the boards here that August 18, 2014 is part of the year 2013 or has taken place before 2013. I will bow to this point my good man. -J. See, I knew you was putting us on and just trying to rile us up! Too bad as I thought the fun was just beginning.