lou_fine

I believe the Pedigree book is basically a done deal already! Done in the sense that it will never ever see the light of day in any of our life time!!

Two real nice pickups! (thumbs u Still, I am left with the question......why would Chuck hang onto these 2 books and yet not bother keeping the Detective Picture Stories #1, Amazing Man #5, etc. or even obvious keepers such as Action #1 or 'Tec #27 instead?

that is an excellent question... How about Superman #14? Lots of copies, but tough to find because everybody wants a copy of this classic cover!

Now, that's what I would call a really nice looking 6.5 copy! Based upon the front cover, this would appear to be severely undergraded. I imagine there must be something on the back cover or in the interior knocking the grade down on this particular copy? BTW: A nice run of bondage covers on these BB books. (thumbs u

Jeff; With respect to the front cover cleaning, I assume this must have been the "wet" cleaning process as opposed to the dry cleaning process since it got the resto comments for the cleaning? Since the front cover was most likely "wet" cleaned, does it feel stiffer than what an uncleaned or dry clean cover would feel like, or does it still feel the same? I used to have several books from Mark Wilson way back in the old days and I always assumed the ones with the stiffer covers were cleaned while I was never ever sure about the ones that felt "normal". Was it just a bad cleaning job on his part because I was told that Mark would always clean every single one of his books no matter how nice they were, as he was virtually OCD about his books?

Well, from everybody's post here who has apparently seen the book, all of the problems with the book sounds as though it is with the back cover. So, in order to answer your question, I guess we would need a full detailed scan of the back cover, both inside and outside would be preferable.

Nah........I think you'll do just fine holding onto the book for now. I believe the early Actions are just starting their move up the charts with a bullet and relatively speaking, are probably where the pre-Robin 'Tec's were about 5 years ago.

Sounds as though the AC copy certainly did have an impact on the asking price for this copy. Pretty agressive asking price for a 4.0 copy at what basically amounts to almost 10X condition guide versus only a bit over 6X guide for the highest graded 9.2 AC copy. Actually the negotiations were cut off by the seller, as he ( I ) really does not want to sell the book at this time, so the chance of a sale was better, than not, IMHO, B and the price range was actually determined before the AC copy ever even came to market (thumbs u To rephrase myself, the demands for this book, in any grade high or low, seem to be on a scale of 10 to the 5th power, that's wha I'm saying, yall Well, how about if the book was sitting in a purple slab? Do you think the demand for this particular book is strong enough to overcome the stigmitizing power of the PLOD to still be able to realize an over guide price? To me, that is the true strength of a book and what quite a few of the real in-demand GA books have been able to achieve so far. Now, those are your real keepers! (thumbs u I sold a 4.5 SP copy for $6200 earlier this year. Guide is $3408. Thanks for the info as this is always good to know! (thumbs u Almost double the OS guide price which is not too bad at all for a PLOD. At the same time, I guess, this also has something to do with the lower price point as it's always easier to get a premium or multiple when the prices are lower. I strongly doubt that this premium will be quite as hefty if we are talking about a 9.2 Action #13 PLOD with a starting OS price point of $30K. This is also probably why we never see premiums to guide on the PLOD's for the high-price GA keys. The recent uber high grade sale of the Captain America #13 PLOD for some 40% over the top of OS was certainly a pleasant surprise. But I guess the final price was also heavily influenced by the 9.6 grade and to a lesser extent, the Chicago pedigree designation.

Sounds as though the AC copy certainly did have an impact on the asking price for this copy. Pretty agressive asking price for a 4.0 copy at what basically amounts to almost 10X condition guide versus only a bit over 6X guide for the highest graded 9.2 AC copy. Actually the negotiations were cut off by the seller, as he ( I ) really does not want to sell the book at this time, so the chance of a sale was better, than not, IMHO, B and the price range was actually determined before the AC copy ever even came to market (thumbs u To rephrase myself, the demands for this book, in any grade high or low, seem to be on a scale of 10 to the 5th power, that's wha I'm saying, yall Well, how about if the book was sitting in a purple slab? Do you think the demand for this particular book is strong enough to overcome the stigmitizing power of the PLOD to still be able to realize an over guide price? To me, that is the true strength of a book and what quite a few of the real in-demand GA books have been able to achieve so far. Now, those are your real keepers! (thumbs u

Sounds as though the AC copy certainly did have an impact on the asking price for this copy. Pretty agressive asking price for a 4.0 copy at what basically amounts to almost 10X condition guide versus only a bit over 6X guide for the highest graded 9.2 AC copy. Sounds as though it's getting more expensive the lower down you go in grade. No surprise as to the no sale end result.

the "4th" 5.0 has changed hands and not through mine. Congrats! Over what kind of time frame are you talking about and any idea if the prices were relatively in the same ball park on all four transactions?

Would you happen to remember what kind of price they was asking for the book?

Wonder what a mid-grade copy like this one would be worth in today's market after factoring in the fact that a 9.2 copy sold for almost $200K or over 6X OS guide price?

I believe you are referring to the Church copy of Boy Comics #17 which went from a 4.0 up to a 7.5 and then finally to a 9.0, while sitting in a blue label throughout its entire journey. Yes, there was a total gross gain of $184 made as the book sold in Heritage for $368 in 2002 and managed to climb all the way to $552 a full year later. I strongly doubt the original purchaser made very much money in the end after accounting for shipping charges, restoration costs, and CGC grading fees. The person who really lost out in the end was the second person who then had the book regraded to a 9.0 and then tried to flip it a few years later on Heritage. Unlike the first go round though, this time it was flagged by one of the boards members. There was so much controversy over this book that the end result was that it was pulled form the Heritage auction and basically unsellable. I believe this book has never come back to market ever since and it would probably be easier to sell a Jason Ewert book than it would be to sell this well publicized upgraded book. For another example, we need only look at the Larson copy of Human Torch #3 (#2) which went from a 9.0 way back in 2002 up to a 9.2 and then finally up to a 9.4 in time for the ComicLink sale in November of last year. On the first go round at Heritage back in 2002, the book sold for just a shade over $8K when top of guide was only $6,200 at the time. I can't remember what the price was for the subsequent sale of the 9.2 copy, but I believe it was markedly lower than the orignal price as the book was flagged as being an upgraded copy. I am also not sure what the CL price was for the November 2010 9.4 sale, but any increase could also be attributed to the +75% increase in the guide price for the book in the interim. This is quite different from high-end SA books which are bought by a completely different clientale who are willing to pay immediately for a book based only upon the grade and doesn't seem to care about the history of the particular book in question. I believe the GA market is markedly different from the SA market when it comes to pricing. In large part, the prices being paid for the GA books are generally being paid for the underlying books themselves. In the case of the high-end SA market, the prices are generally being paid for the grades themselves as opposed to being paid for the actual books. This is why you will see mid-grade GA books or even in some extreme cases, low-grade restored GA books selling for more than top of guide OS prices. Needless to say, you will never ever see this situation with the SA books. I guess with regards to the GA, you are really buying the book and with the high-end SA, you are really buying just the label. Believe me, if there was as much easy money to be made in the flipping of GA books as there is in the restoration and flipping of SA books, than you would see Doug Schmell and the likes in there like hungry wolves. Unless of course, they are already in there and are willing to hold their GA books for years before flipping them for a profit. But I strongly doubt they are doing this.

In answer to your question, this type of activity is a sure-fire sign that the high-end SA market is headed for nowhere except an eventual huge crash. The above examples clearly show that the market is driven by total speculation and really has nothing at all to do with the underlying books themselves. These books are most likely being bought by whoever, shipped directly to the restorer by Heritage, and then forwarded by the comic book doctor directly to Doug Scmell for resale. The original purchaser if we assume it's not Schmell himself, does not even ever come in direct contact with the books. The above scenario is all done within a 2-month time window as clearly evident from the dates listed above. As a result, the above original purchase transactions are not being done for a love or appreciation of the books themselves, but only for the love of money. The comic books themselves serve only as a vehicle to make this money. If the same type of money could be made by selling used female suppositories, I am sure you would be seeing the exact same knid of market activity. Schmell and these money hungry vultures would be up to their noses and eyeballs in analyzing the amount of staining, degree of ordour, and whatever else it would take to hopefully make their millions. So bottom-line........the high-end SA market is most definitely headed for an eventual crash as it is being driven primarily by not the books themselves, but fuelled by only a love for the money. If the money is no longer there to be made, these high-end SA books will come crashing back down to Earth.

Now......either way, those two are really nice!

Jeff; Looks like you nailed this one almost bang on! (thumbs u With the prices that some of these books are going for, are the early Actions hotter than the pre-Robin 'Tec books right now. I guess this is catch-up time for Supes as the market seems to go in cycles all the time.

mitch, don't you mean .5 ? it was missing the back cover, can't grade higher than poor, can it or maybe a "qualified" 5.0 Well, it looks like all of the naysayers who were harping on Harley for calling his Pep #22 a VG+ was dead wrong. That one was missing just the front logo, whereas this copy apparently missing the entire back page was graded even higher by CGC.

And still trying to sell the Superman #1 Larson with no back cover for $100,000? presumably Did this Larson copy of Sups #1 ever sell? I wonder why Theo would sell Supes #1 when according to his article, it's the comic book equivalent of the Hognus Wagner card, the ultimate, ultimate comic book, and the most undervalued comic book in existence.

+1 We have discussed it before and I have always been in the camp that Cap #1 is the top Timely GA key book, just like AF #15 is the most important SA (and Timely/Atlas/Marvel overall). -1 Nah, I just don't buy this point of view at all. Although Cap is a bigger name than either Subby or the Human Torch, he is still only a 2nd tier character at best and still not generally known in the public domain. All of this positive energy for Cap at the moment is just based upon the current movie hype. Remember how "Tec #27 was able to overtake Action #1 for a short period of time due to all of the movie hype. When all was said and done, Action #1 took back its rightful place as the #1 book, even though Sups has not been as popular Bats over the past decade and more. If Cap can't overtake Marvel #1 with the current hype, I don's see how he is going to be able to do it over the long-run once the current movie hype dies back down. In addition, Marvel Comics #1 came out in 1939 and Cap #1 came out much later in 1941 when comic books were already well established. That difference in time is much much more than a simple 2 years from a collecting point of view.

Mitch; I hope that Veryzl is going to take your advice and dump that turd of a book, namely his supposedly 9.8 Church copy of Marvel #1, before it becomes totally worthless. If worse comes to worse, I can probably find some way to convince myself to add that POS book to my personal collection. BTW: Mitch, it's good to see you posting in threads other than your own! (thumbs u

Charming cover! Do you know Rupert the Bear? No I can't say I am familiar with that Bear ... Same graphic style? Well, do you know Jason Ewert? He'll take care of that uneven top cover for you in no time flat.

Wow, it took me a long time to find the one that you had mentioned earlier in the thread as it was way back on Page 103 from early 2008. Saw a lot of other supposedly rare Centaurs before I was finally able to see this one. Not surprisingly, it looks like a pretty nice copy from our premiere Centaur collector, namely Jon Berk himself. I wonder if Win and some of the other prominent Centaur collectors such as Ryan H would have some idea if this issue is as truly rare as Overstreet thinks and warrants denoting it as a "rare" book. Certainly something that OS doesn't tend to do very often. BTW: I just checked the Mile High catalogue and there is supposed to be a NM copy of this issue which was available then at the outragous price of $30. At these kind of prices, I am surprised that it took Chuck so long to sell off his Church books.

I couldn't agree more with you. What would you guess the hammer price to be? 5,6 or 7K? +2! I have believe this has always been the case with these common books. All we need do is to look back at the history of these sales to see that none of them have stood up to the test of time. Like I have always said, it is way too early in the slabbing game to be paying top dollar for anything unless it is absolutely TOP GRADE and never likely to be exceeded. And for a BA book, that would be a real solid properly graded untouched 9.9 and nothing less.

Wow, it's been awhile since we've had a post in this long-running Centaur thread! Anyways, I was flipping through the new OS guide and noticed that Funny Picture Stories #7 has been broken out in the guide from its surrounding issues. I actually went back to last year's guide and it seem that this was when the breakout was done. I am always way behind the times! Does any of the Centaur experts here know anything about this book besides the fact that it has a racial humour theme cover? Is it really a tough book to find since Overstreet is now denoting it as a "rare" book in the price guide? I am totally shocked at the price movement on this book as it has really shot up the Centaur charts in a short period of time. The 2010 guide showed a 60% increase from $1,250 up to $2,000 when it was broken out. This has now been followed up by a further 40% price increase from $2,000 up to $2,800. This amounts to an overall price increase of 124% over a short 2-year time period. Is there another Centaur book or even any other GA to show this type of increase in guide price during this same time period? The only one that I can think of is 'Tec #27 which is also over 100%, but this had some highly publicized solid sales behind it. Anybody aware of any documented sales for this Funny Picture Stories or is this another relatively unknown (keep quiet until I get one) and impossible Centaur book that would blow the price guide out of the water similar to Amazing Man #26 which is only denoted as "scarce" in the guide?