sfcityduck

Could be. It'd be nice to know the actual data.

Do you want to tell us how you hooked up with PBA? Your choice obviously but I have liked your auctions.

Yes. See first post. Still, appreciate the Petaluma reality check. Did Ivan have a connection to Aardvark books?

And here's the description by Ivan I missed, breaking my heart as I would have killed for this item. He or Grant Geisman borrowed from my Wigransky thread for the description; which I don't mind at all because the info on the RBCC ad and Cochran buying the ECs from Wigransky was a huge find. The point being, Ivan's write-up is stellar! The lot included not just Cochran's bound volume of EC's he bought from Wigransky, but also an AP photo of Wigransky. I'm still sad. Contact me if you have this stuff and want to sell it.: Description Heading: Author: Title: WEIRD FANTASY Bound Volume, First Eleven Issues, 1950-1952 (RUSS COCHRAN Provenance) Place Published: Publisher: Date Published: Description: EC. 1950-1952. Eleven consecutive issues of Weird Fantasy bound in heavy blue buckram cloth-over-boards, hand-sewn bindings, spine titled, ruled and decorated in gilt: "WEIRD FANTASY / 13 (1950) – 11," front panel personalized in gilt: "Russell V. Cochran." Contents comprise Weird Fantasy comic books #13 (1st issue, May-June, 1950) through #11 (Jan.-Feb., 1952). Comics are untrimmed and are in generally Very Fine condition, with no chips, tears or other conspicuous flaws aside from reduced cover gloss, a touch of light edgewear to some issues, and removed staples (as customary for bound periodicals). Off-white to cream pages. Very light handling marks and a light finger mark to cloth; gilt bright and unrubbed, binding solid. Sewn binding permits book to lay open flat with no loss at the gutter. Provenance: From a complete set of EC New Trend and New Direction titles bound to order by Russ Cochran in 1966. In 1953, sixteen-year-old Russ Cochran and a few friends started a local chapter of the EC Fan-Addict Club. They were among the first of over 23,000 eventual nationwide members (Cochran's badge number was 181). As he recalled in a 1999 interview with Grant Geissman, "We were Chapter number three, which always kind of amazed me that we'd gotten in that early." (See Tales of Terror: The EC Companion, p. 277). Cochran's devotion to EC was exclusive. Asked if he read any other comics after discovering the New Trend, he replied, "No, I stuck with ECs." When the Code and low sales kiboshed the New Trend and New Direction lines, Cochran gave up on comics altogether. "Gaines pulled the plug on the ECs at just about the same time that I was supposed to grow up and go to college, so that's basically what I did." Cochran put his ECs in a box, locked it and hid it away in his mother's attic. "That was kind of a strange thing to do with comic books, but I somehow knew that there would be a time in the future when I would want to revisit those books." Then came the encounter with Bill Gaines that reignited Cochran's passion for EC. As Cochran remembered it, "On sort of a whim I decided to write Bill Gaines. My letter said something to the effect that of the members of our chapter, EC Fan-Addict Club number three, one of us is a teacher, one is a minister, one is a doctor, one is a lawyer, and not an axe murderer in the bunch. I thought he would get a kick out of knowing that the influence of the ECs had not been detrimental to us. Anyway, he got a big kick out of the letter and wrote me back and said, 'Next time you're in New York... give me a call and we'll go to dinner.'" Gaines and Cochran became fast friends, and on one of their visits, when Cochran saw Gaines's complete bound set of original EC comic books, something clicked in his mind. He developed an overpowering desire to possess a complete hardcover EC library of his very own. This obsession would prove providential for future generations of Fan-Addicts. The worn-out reading copies he'd saved for years wouldn't suffice for what Cochran had in mind. So he replaced them in one fell swoop with a mint condition set with outstanding provenance. Grant Geissman tells the story in a June, 2020 EC Fan-Addict Club FB post: "Russ Cochran, so the story goes, bought a complete EC collection in 1966 for $300 from an ad in the Rocket's Blast Comicollector. Then he had the set bound.... Russ had his ECs bound after seeing Bill Gaines's EC bound volumes." The ad appeared in RBCC #44, and the dealer who sold the set to Cochran was David Wigransky, who placed the ad under his nom de plume, David Jay. Wigransky was one of the first great comic book collectors, buying mint copies of thousands of books right off the stands and preserving them in outstanding condition. In 1948, a teenaged Wigransky gained media attention for writing a letter of rebuttal to the Saturday Review of Literature in response to an article by anti-comics crusader Fredric Wertham. Much of the media attention focused on his huge collection of comics (which look impressively high-grade in surviving news photos). Wigransky has been called "the first great comic collector" due to the depth and breadth of his collection, his emphasis on high-grade condition, his comics advocacy, his involvement in proto-fandom, and his early interest in collecting original comic art. Wigransky, who became a motorbiker known as "Beer Dave" and authored several books before his death in 1969, is one of the most intriguing figures in early collectordom. The comics sold in the RBCC ad were acquired off the stands by Wigransky in the years directly following his brief brush with celebrity (the ad describes the comics as "MINT, as direct from newsstand"), lending another layer of interest to these fabled mags. Roger Hill, Professor Emeritus of Fan-Addicts, recalls an early brush with Cochran's newly-acquired EC treasure trove (courtesy of Facebook's EC Fan-Addict Club): "I visited Russ during the summer of 1966, within a week or so after he had brought this collection of mint ECs. When I got there, Russ had just sent all the comics out to be bound. I couldn't believe my bad timing. I asked Russ if they were all really mint, as the ad had stated. And he said yes." Russ Cochran's evangelical zeal for EC comics manifested in a desire to preserve the company's entire output in a handsome, permanent hardcover library. He went on to do just that in his Complete EC Library series, which has been described as "The very summit of modern comics publishing" (EC, MAD and Pre-Code HORROR Comics of the 1950s). Cochran's grand publishing achievement has definite roots in the bound EC volumes that he created in 1966, and there is a palpable continuity between the two projects (even the color-coding concept carries over: the blue bindings of the Weird Science and Weird Fantasy bound volumes match the blue bindings of the Complete EC Library versions). Mr. Cochran's bound ECs are a Rosetta Stone of his EC obsession, a blueprint to his future EC publishing achievements, a distillation of his legacy, and an embodiment of the positive impact that a dedicated, motivated fan can have on the world of comics.

Here's an example of a 29 book lot description from PBA (Ivan's descriptions can be quite refreshing): Item Details Title: ROMANCE COMICS: Lot of 29 Love Comics, Various Publishers Place Published: Publisher:Various Publishers Date Published: Late 1940s-early 1950s Description: Big stack of low-grade romance mags to while away those lonely hours. Generally Good- (1.8) to Good+ (2.5), with outliers up to 3.5, possibly even a 4.0 or two. Most if not all with spine roll and staple rust. Not vetted for clipped coupons and such; caveat emptor (no other mags from this consignment have had clipped coupons or missing pages, so that's a good sign). Read these rags responsibly; PBA is not responsible for tear-stained pillows and broken hearts. Complete Love vol.26, #4; Daring Confessions #5; Daring Love #15; Dear Lonely Heart Illustrated #3; First Love Illustrated #s 31 & 40; First Romance #s 3 & 4; Glamorous Romances #43; Golden West Love #1; Great Lover Romances #15; Heart Throbs #16; Hi-School Romance #15; Hollywood Confessions #1; Love and Marriage #4 (great Superior mag, too bad it's the crappiest-condition mag in the stack, 1.0 with chipped and detached cover); Love at First Sight #2; Love Lessons #3; Lovelorn #s 7, 20, 28 & 30; Lover's Lane #12; Love Stories of Mary Worth #1; Romantic Adventures #s 26 & 30; Romantic Hearts #7; Romantic Story #25; Search for Love #1; Sweet Love #3.

For their March auction of 334 or so lots, almost a third were multi-book lots with some lots as small as two books and some lots as large as 31 books or more. For 40,000 books I think its a safe bet it will be years not months. After all, Promise was 5,000 books and took how long?

I think that's a really good question. I follow their non-comic auctions, and they generally top out around 500 or so lots. So my assumption is that we're going to see a LOT of multiple book lots in auctions with about 500 lots. That would keep the burden for processing, packing, etc. constant. The increased burden is going to be for the grading/descriptions.

It may be a strange take, but I deal with auctioneers in other realms who only want to sell the "good stuff." I agree any comic dealer would take all 40,000 books. But all dealers, including Metro, are happy to deal in volumes and carry inventory. Auction houses often have a different view. The top five by sales are Christie's, Sotheby's, Phillips, Bonhams, and Heritage. The first four were founded in the 1700s. Heritage in 1976. It has made its meteoric rise by increasingly getting the best stuff in its areas of focus.

Great point about unsold lots, but 31 unsold out of 335 is less than 10% and any convention dealer would be ecstatic with a 90%+ sell rate above their minimum price, right? Not sure how you get to 60%. Of course, unsold lots could be repriced and re-listed (a common occurrence by auction houses using Liveauctioneers).

I completely agree that "Why PBA" is the interesting question. The handwringing for Heritage is what caused a shift in the discussion. My answer to your question was earlier in the thread:

I thought you did not like assumptions? But I am not a small business owner. Which does not equate to ignorance about business. A business only has a fixed cost up to a fixed capacity. If you own an auto repair shop with two full-time mechanics on payroll your costs are fixed up to 80 hours a week of employee time. After that you pay OT or you find more mechanics. You may also need to find a bigger garage. Heritage is not a small business. It has many more limits on its capacity. Growth is not without risk. If you build up to increase capacity you are taking on fixed costs which might not be sustainable if volume needs decrease. That problem has taken down a lot of businesses. One option for a business like Heritage which is not a retailer is to increase per unit profits instead of taking on a greater capacity of work. Heritage will make more money auctioning 1,000 lots at an average value of $5,000 per lot than twice that at $2,500 per lot. Hence the increase in Sig auction value limits for lots they will accept.

TAT complaints evidence, in fact establish, capacity limits at cgc/ccs. That TATs increased during the Promise infusion is evidence it helped further overtax capacity. You and I agree that Heritage has other priorities than comics. I have said that repeatedly on this thread. That Heritage is increasing limits for Sig auctions shows they are not seeking a pure volume business model like an eBay or others. Quality matters to their business model. They do not have unlimited auction capacity. Limits are imposed by processing receipt capacity, grading capacity, listing capacity, auction capacity, shipping capacity etc. Which is why I lose no sleep if I am Heritage over not getting the 40,000 books Ian put together. no handwringing or defense of Heritage is really necessary.

My comment about “breaking them” was really more of an expression about the impact on cgc/ccs than anything else. I agree that Heritage can absorb 5,000 books over a multi-Year period as they just did. I am sure pacing was driven in large part by cgc/ccs. We certainly heard anecdotes on this site about the work the collection created. But 5,000 is a lot less than 40,000 where the work for Heritage would be much greater for less payoff. So if I am Heritage I lose no sleep over this collection going elsewhere. This is sort of a pointless discussion because Heritage did not get the collection. PBA did. So now we will see how they do and what impact it has on them.

You did not tell me how many books cgc and ccs process in a day. I am not attacking Heritage or cgc/ccs. I am talking about capacity. It is not unlimited. And their business model seems to be quite a bit different than that of eBay - e.g. not a high volume low dollar book model. So I am not of the belief that Ian’s collection is the best fit for Heritage. If I am Heritage and I had to choose between Ian’s 40,000 books and Bangzoom’s 2,000 Gilchrist books I am going with BangZoom because I am sure the price per auction lot unit is higher and the effort per auction lot unit is lower. Question: Who does Heritage’s grading and resto check for raw books and how long does that take?

Skepticism is a product of experience. My own experience with PBA was positive with regard to a raw Cosmic Aeroplane.. Of course they are getting the biggest books graded. I admire the restraint being shown by PBA affiliated Boardies in not taking offense at concerns like this being stated. I think it is good to let folks talk out stuff like this and share info. I have not seen any threads on this site about complaints regarding PBA, so my assumption is that says something positive.

Could be. But PBA is on Liveauctioneers so anyone who searches comics on that site will find PBA also.

I have been wrong before. No need to be coy. You can tell me. I think the problem with promise was more CCS than CGC though. I would love to see a chart of TATs for CGC and CCS for the past five years.

Well, counselor, anecdotal evidence is evidence. And from having lived through that time, it seemed that CGC, and CCS because many Promise books went through pressing, were getting a preference in the que, which makes perfect sense given the imperative to meet Heritage's auction schedule. We saw TATs for CGC and CCS lengthen, and we saw Heritage auctions dominated by Promise books. I also heard, again anecdotally, that the financial threshold to make it into a Signature Auction increased due to the Promise Collection - which again makes business sense. But the notion that Heritage has unlimited comic auctioning capacity does not make business sense to me. Every business want to increase its per unit profits because there is always a limit on units, and that is as true for Heritage as anyone else. Having said that, does anyone know whether Heritage was offered this collection? I'd be curious to know if they had an opportunity and, if so, whether they turned it down or were unwilling to meet the sellers demands.

Do tell. Even if you break them into lots, its a lot of lots.

I wish I did!

But, the seller does not appear to have wanted the collection to be cherry picked. It appears to me that the seller would rather be a big fish in a small pond than a side dish at Heritage. Frankly, I'm not convinced that low grade books do better at Heritage than other venues. Really big ticket high grade books? Generally, yes (with some exceptions). But this collection does not have big ticket high grade books. The best looking book I've seen is the ashcan. Ian was a completist not a finicky "rare high grade" guy. "If you build they will come." Everyone on this site now knows about PBA. If you are looking for low to mid-grade DCs you are going to find PBA. PCH and EC collectors I'm sure have PBA on their radar. The big winner here is PBA. I don't think the seller or Heritage are losers. I just don't think this collection is a good fit for Heritage.

The volumes almost broke CGC and Heritage. 5,000 books dominated both venues for a year. It was worth it to Heritage because they were high grade. Are 40,000 low to mid-grade DCs worth tying up your auction house for? Not for Heritage. They have bigger fish to fry. Plus, they have other priorities.

You guys are making a big assumption that Heritage wanted to auction off 40,000 mostly low grade DC comics. They barely were able to handle the Promise Collection. Why would they want to spend years taking up slots in their auctions with lots that are below their desired average price? I'm sure Heritage would auction select lots, but nowhere near 40,000 books. As for PBA's reputation they have been around for a long time auctioning books and some fine art. They are a fair auctioneer. Recently, they've gone into comics, with a strong emphasis on raw PCH, and their auctions have included some serious surprises (one example a complete set of the ASM 1-41 from Steve Ditko's personal collection) and rarely seen items (very rare ECs, Wertham items, and a missed opportunity for two items that will haunt me forever). I recently bought a nice raw Cosmic Aeroplane and their service was great. What their auctions show is that they are willing and adept at handling interesting stuff that's not in top condition. .. . .

I can think of a lot of reasons: • Heritage has many other priorities whereas PBA will likely make this a main focus; • Many books are lower grade and PBA has been doing a good job on lower grade book auctions so far; • They might like the people at PBA; • PBA may have a much better cost structure; • The advantages of selling through Heritage mainly apply to high priced and high grade books which most of this collection will not be; • Heritage might have wanted to cherry pick; etc. add your own.

Most of my buying is GA and as a general proposition I believe books 7.5 and above look “high grade” but I am ok drawing that look line between anywhere between 7.0 to 8.5 because grading is still and always be a bit inconsistent. For moderns, given the paper stock and immediate care given to the books , I have trouble viewing even a 9.0 as high grade.