sfcityduck

I think you meant a pair of reasons.

Ah. I get it. I looked at the prices on the right and the date on the left. Didn't realize it was more than one ad. As I said, Chuck was idiosyncratic with his pricing. As OPG says (definitely used to say), back then "prices varied wildly."

There's really nothing surprising here as long as you realize that covers matter more than first appearances in the current CGC driven market. A bad cover depresses the value of a first appearance. Just ask Doctor Strange and Wonder Woman and a host of other characters. But the first appearance is still the first appearance. And folks who want to create new marketing terms like "first full appearance" are just engaging in or feeding puffery designed to swell prices not expand knowledge.

Chuck's ads helped me complete my X-Men run. But, his pricing was idiosyncratic. And it varied wildly. Check out another ad of his with the same expiration date: Micronauts 1 was twice the price of 181. 180 and 182 weren't broken out yet. 181 was only a $1 buck over $180. And I can assure you that he was probably on the cutting edge of pricing 181 over 180. But he could be a trend setter. After all he was the guy who duped the OPG and fandom generally with the whole "limited distribution" lie about Conan 3 (I think).

But in 180 they do. The "Weapon X" mentioned early in the story is Wolverine. He calls himself that later in the book. And it becomes a bigger deal later in the X-Men 109, 120, 121, etc.

I bought this page of original art at Comics & Comix on Telegraph Ave. in Berkeley with some money I got for Christmas back in 1980. I think it cost $60 or so: What grabbed my heart was the visual gag on the computer screen by Terry Austin. He writes something to the effect of "Hey John, ya still doing funny books? When ya going to get a real job?" When I bought it, there was white out on the margins. I carefully scraped it off when I got it home. It had a nice instruction to the colorist about Jean "zapping herself starkers." I didn't give any thought to the figure lurking in the dark corner of the final panel. But that panel is nothing like the last page of Hulk 180. Sadly, I sold this page on eBay in the late 90s to fund a fine art purchase. I got about $1,200 or so it and it funded my purchase of two woodblock prints that meant a lot to me. The artists had given a painting to my grandmother. The woodblocks have since completely blown-up in value so it was a great investment. But I still wish I had the art back. This image is from CAF where the present owner (whoever that is) displays it.

I can tell you actual prices from a dealer because I paid them, and they were in line with OPG. Here's the thing you don't realize: 1980 was pre-internet. There was no "national market" for comics. Some comics would become hot in one part of the country but still be dirt cheap in another. The only common ground was the OPG. And to the vast majority of collectors back then, it was a bible. This allowed the most savy collectors and dealers to make money off information disparities. That's a lot harder to do today! I'm not surprised there were dealers pricing 180 above 181. And I'm not surprised by the reverse. It used to be that Albedo 0 and 1 were way more expensive than Albedo 2. Things change. But I can assure that when I bought my Hulk 180, 181, and 182 back in 80-81, it was clear that 180 was the first appearance (and that meant in my mind and many others it was the biggest book), 181 was a cool cover, and 182 was a bit of rip-off but you had to have it if, like me, you wanted every appearance of the New X-Men. Yeah, we were that OCD. That's why Marvel got away with ripping us OCD collectors off with so many bad limited series, cross-overs, and events. I blame collectors like me who bought stuff like Kitty Pryde and Wolverine. In any event, many LCS didn't carry the adzines like Comic Buyers Guide. I didn't see those publications until I was going to shops like Comics & Comix in the Bay Area - you didn't see them in my home state of Oregon. So I got a subscription. My LCS had killer books to be sure, that's where I got my 180, 181 and 182, and the owner read the CBG and bought comics out of auctions like Collector's Showcase, but dealing was more an expression of passion than a path to riches in those days. My LCS owner was living above his store (not a great home) when he bought his Action 1 with help from loans from his family. He lived a simple life. He didn't like to sell his personal books. And he's still sitting on his Action 1 and long runs of GA books. Also, in the 70s and early 80s most collectors wanted complete title runs. I wanted every X-Men issue, I didn't like the Hulk at all. I wasn't going around looking for "first appearance" because who cared? That was a distraction from the core of what you wanted: The story.

For me, Avengers 181-201 are one of the greatest runs of my youth! The Byrne run especially.

You asked a question and I gave you an answer. As someone who was actively collecting all things X in the late 70s and early 80s, I can assure you that 180 was considered the first appearance (because, after all, it is). The prices reflected that. Wolverine became really popular during the Claremont-Byrne-Austin run. Byrne had a love for his fellow Canadian. But the notion of "key hot books" didn't exist back then. Dealers weren't overhyping every frigging thing out of a desire to dupe someone into buying FOOM because it was Wolverine's first appearance. Comic collecting was far more about love of the medium back then not of the greenback.

I think it can safely be said that everyone on this Board understands stories and why people care about them. Why else would they post on this Board? The question to ask yourself is: "Do I understand storytelling?" Because there are a LOT of ways to tell a story. Sometimes stories get spooled out with a tidbit in the beginning, something else in the middle, and a reveal at the end.

Ah ... youth! The answer is "Yes"! Don't know how old you are, but back at the height of the X-Men popularity in 1981, at the tale of the Claremont-Byrne-Austin run, and before all things X-Men got over X-ploited, a IH 180 was priced at $12 in the OPG and denoted as Wolverine's "first appearance" whereas 181 and 182 were both priced at half that (and less than X-Men 108! GSX 1 and 94 were both $60). As a point of comparison, back then Action 2 was twice the price of Action 7 and 10. You see, back then folks bought comics to read -- not to turn into baseball cards.

A first appearance is a first appearance. That's a matter of history and accuracy, not money. I can think of a number of situations where a character's first appearance is not their most valuable appearance. So too with Wolverine.

Ouch! That correction hurt. Maybe I should go back and read these things instead of trusting my memory from 40 years ago (no one reads 180, 181 and 182 more than once, they are terrible comics).

The first X-Men I bought off the stand was 109. I'd been buying comics earlier in the 70s, but they didn't catch my eye until then. When I was filling in my run, GSX 1 cost more than 94 but was easier to find. When I was filling in that run, it was helpful to a Junior High (grades 7-9) comic collector that Mile High was running those ads in comics. Created a source for material that my LCS was either hoarding or not carrying. I did buy back issues from my LCS including GSX 1 and 60s issues. The GSX 1 cost $25 or so. Can't recall but definitely less than $50. Used some Christmas money. Not a bad investment. My wife wants me to sell it. But the run of IH 180, 181, 182, GSX 1, and 94-144 (plus all appearances of that era) was my proudest collecting accomplishment prior to starting H.S.

Beer Dave is on the way! Cannot wait to read this thing!

Roy Thomas, co-creator, says: "Obviously it's 180 because he's in that last panel," Thomas tells ComicBook.com. Thomas co-created the character with Len Wein and John Romita. "It's just that the other is a full story and the one's a panel of it. But the first appearance is in #180, obviously." (Roy, an old time collector, knows that no one thinks that Galactus's first appearance is FF 49.) And what do we see in IH 180?: The installation in which Alpha Flight was assembled and the first reference to "Weapon X:" The story then shifts to future Alpha Flight member Wendigo, and finally we the first appearance of Wolverine in full, in costume, talking, in story continuity, with exposition on his backgound - that he is "Weapon X": In short, he's a thread in the story throughout. He just does not appear until the final page. But an appearance is an appearance. This is not someone lurking in the shadows. Should 180 be worth more than 181? I'm not arguing that. A first appearance does not need to be the most valuable appearance of character. In today's CGC world where covers have disproportionate weight, that 181 is worth more than 180 is not surprising. But it does not mean that 181 is the first appearance - just that it is the more valuable book in the marketplace.

First book in their regular title and first coalescing of the new team (e.g. old team members leave). But not worth more than GS X-Men. Basically, the Amazing Spiderman 1 to AF 15. My vote is for IH 181 over IH 180. Not a first. We learn a LOT about Wolvie's origin in 180 and get a full appearance in costume and continuity. The things I hate are the folks trying to turn Comic Reader, Comic Journal, Comic Buyer's Guide, FOOM etc. ads into "first appearances" or, worse yet in the case of the Foom "wolverine" - fake prototypes.

Warning Season Two Spoiler!:

A very good day for me as a collector! Today I picked up a copy of "Dave Jay's" (Wigransky's) book Raising Hell! DJ is not in perfect condition and the bookseller's price (and description) reflected that he'd read this thread, but a grail acquired for me! Pics to follow as it has interior art by Dave I'd not seen before. This motivates me to update Dave's story with some additional new info that paints a much more vivid picture of who he was. I should also probably just set forth his story in one telling, instead of the spoon out I did for this thread.

I have seen miracles performed on fine art prints with regard to mold type discolorations. Before: After (Edit: Here's a much better pic before I framed it):

The books referenced by Bradbury:

I think Wrexham is a fairly cheap show to produce. It's pretty no frills.

Another bad FA Cup draw for Wrexham. Instead of getting an EPL team like Arsenal, Man U, Tottenham, etc. on the road (huge stadiums) which would be a big payday, they get Sheffield Wednesday United who presently sit second in L1 the Championship League at home - in other words a good team of a quality that is two or three levels above them (a very tough match) but no cache or big payday. Always hope for an upset and in theory this is an easier game than the upset they just pulled off - but very hard to pull off more than one upset like that. Reason for edit: Correcting my misinformation.

He is around Eddie Van Halen’s age (RIP too young) so born more towards mid-50s than mid-60s.

Agree. But the great thing about this competition is the upsets!