mintcollector

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.' When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day. Well, to be fair, mint, moondog was only asking a question. He didn't seem to be stating or implying anything. You coming on here and explaining is pretty much what he was looking for. (thumbs u Andy Thanks Andy. Mint's claim that there is more larceny going on in other fields of collecting prompted my question. I was not aware that the embossing on currency would be flattened by pressing. I assumed that currency collectors would be put off by pressing and clearly I was correct. And Mint, I was not trying to bait you. I enjoy your posts and learn something from many of them. No worries on my end. Gary Hello Gary, I know you were not trying to 'bait me' in any way regarding your response. My major points throughout this thread have only been that at the end of the day we are very lucky to have third party grading in our said fields of interest. Rather then continue to attempt to state what I have stated many posts ago, I think part of the answer to most individuals questions does lie in looking at the said relationship between NCS and NGC (both owned by the Certified Collectibles Group). This relationship is very professional and is not, in my opinion; a conflict of interest. I would also like to point out some of the horrid things that go on in other collecting fields that have no third party grading or any such safe guards; other then the trust and knowledge of the dealers and experts of their chosen fields. After reading what I have written below, I don't think anyone here will want to go back to the 'dark days' (as someone else once called it; before CGC. As I have said before, we can now manufacture a two hundred year old Windsor Chair from parts made available at the Home Depot, age it, and sell it through an auction house for top dollar. This is not restoration. This is the manufacture of a reproduction meant to deceive. It is also disgusting if not disclosed to the buyer; and truly unethical (again if NOT disclosed). In the marble collecting fields (which is very strong right now) we can not only 'polish' marbles to make them look new; but contemporary marbles can be made to look antique and vintage to an untrained eye. This is why most contemporary marble artists are encouraged to sign there work (i.e. the marble). In fact, a lot of pressure has been put on artists who refuse to do so. I paid a record price recently for an antique bottle. It made the local news...for about ten seconds. We can now 'tumble' antique bottles to the point that even 'experts' are being fooled and these bottles are being sold with no way of knowing if they are 'attic mint' (an actual term in this collecting field) or 'manipulated.' Again, it pays to go through a vetted auction house (but again, mistakes do happen). In book collecting, rebinding is becoming so advanced that even experts are having to question whether an actual first edition was in fact kept in true very fine condition (note that there is no true condition of 'mint' in the rare book market; take note); or if it was in fact 'altered.' In other areas of glass collecting (art glass, carnival glass, depression glass, and high end Tiffany glass); repairs have gotten so good that even a blacklight in some cases (the previous standard of detecting a repair) will not work. Now I ask you to look at my point from this perspective (my perspective of what I see on a daily basis in the antiques and collectibles industry); and on the eve of Thanksgiving. A lot of fine men and brave turkeys (okay, maybe I need to switch the wording of this statement) gave their life for us to have this discussion. However, when one deals with just a few of the instances I have mentioned above you have to wonder why myself (who also collects comic books) would truly worry about a process where we 'press' an ORIGINAL comic book to remove a corner ding, stress line, or crease. That is my only point. I do however, respect the opinions of those who differ. I did post a thread regarding my experiences with pressing in the proper forum for those to see. In conclusion, have a HAPPY THANKSGIVING and be grateful for what you have, the knowledge we ALL have shared, and the ideas that have been stated. For everything in life has started by one small idea that began to grow. Thank you for reading. Kind Regards, 'mint'

Are you saying this with a straight face? You're the guy who disparaged comics as not even being in the realm of true collectibles, and then you wouldn't even post the list that comics didn't make. Do you have any self-awareness? I said that comics are not 'true collectibles' yet I spend thousands on each one and have been collecting since 2008? Wow, since 2008? Tell me about the old days grandpa... Yes, I am aware that you had posted it earlier. It still doesn't change the fact that you refused to post the list in the subsequent thread(s), which would've taken 2 seconds. Your attitude betrayed your disdain for the posters who were asking (and some were asking nicely). I thought it was all about the sharing of knowledge? This is just one example of why your statement above is bulle. You're a hypocrite? Perhaps you forget the person who started 'using foul langauage' and the fact that I was a dealer at a major antique convention that day. I do have a life outside the forums. This isn't Burger King; you can't have it YOUR way. I want the top ten list now. Sorry, I am busy right now! Backpedal. First you claim I do not consider comic books true collectibles. Ask any dealer here who has done business with me, they would disagree with you. Why would I be on a comic book forum if I did not agree on the product? You may want to reread my posts. There is a difference between viewing an item as a collectible and investment. You may want to review exactly what I wrote. Number two, you then state that I refused to post a 'list.' I proved you wrong. You're comeback is 'wow, I can't belive you actually searched the fourm that fast.' Anything else? Things are not looking up for you right now. Here is something unique. Is this a message? I wonder what it says? 'Lunchbox is not worthy of your time, mint. Put him on ignore and be done with it. This is off-topic.' Okay...

Are you saying this with a straight face? You're the guy who disparaged comics as not even being in the realm of true collectibles, and then you wouldn't even post the list that comics didn't make. Do you have any self-awareness? I said that comics are not 'true collectibles' yet I spend thousands on each one and have been collecting since 2008? Wow, since 2008? Tell me about the old days grandpa... Yes, I am aware that you had posted it earlier. It still doesn't change the fact that you refused to post the list in the subsequent thread(s), which would've taken 2 seconds. Your attitude betrayed your disdain for the posters who were asking (and some were asking nicely). I thought it was all about the sharing of knowledge? This is just one example of why your statement above is bulle. You're a hypocrite? Perhaps you forget the person who started 'using foul langauage' and the fact that I was a dealer at a major antique convention that day. I do have a life outside the forums. This isn't Burger King; you can't have it YOUR way. I want the top ten list now. Sorry, I am busy right now!

http://boards.collectors-society.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=6158615#Post6158615 Note the post that is bumped...

Are you saying this with a straight face? You're the guy who disparaged comics as not even being in the realm of true collectibles, and then you wouldn't even post the list that comics didn't make. Do you have any self-awareness? I said that comics are not 'true collectibles' yet I spend thousands on each one and have been collecting since 2008? Really? I believe you are referring to a list I did post; albeit NOT in the same hour the forum requested it. If you would recall that thread and 'bump' it you will see that post is credited as being posted by me at a much earlier date. Again, may I ask your point? This has always been my stance. It has not changed.

Mint … I find some of the views in your posts interesting however you tend to make these comments in nearly every post you make. I’m a noob here on the forums and in the little time I’ve spent here it’s been well established by you that you collect other things (and allegedly very knowledgeable) other than comics … so do I and probably many others but do you feel it necessary to state this repetitively ? Maybe just put these comments in your sig if it’s that relevant to every topic you post about I’m not trying to be disparaging at all … just pointing out something you may be overlooking when you post. I appreciate your comment. You are aware I already take a lot of criticism for what is already stated in my signature line now? Ironically, I never once attempted to post a link to the stated article in my signature line (I don't even know if that is allowed, per forum rules; regardless). I also do not think that my signature line is that controversial at present time; or ever was. You bring up a great point. However, even now when I am involved in numerous discussion fellow borad members ask if they are supposed to know what I have posted about in other 'threads.' I will agree that one cannot know or possibly remember everything about what a certain member has posted about. That being said, there are underlying principles that every member here does express or 'stand for' regularly. These are generally known because they become a constant 'theme' throughtout certain individual's posts. Again, and we seem to be visiting this topic a lot in a thread that is NOT about me; I do not mean to offend anyone in any post I make. Ironically, I really wish that the people who criticize my posts would take the time to criticize the few forum members who choose to resort to foul language and name calling when discussing any matter of interest with me that they disagree with. It is during these times that most of these members remain the most silent of all. I find this greatly disturbing (not to mention quite ironic). In conclusion, my only discord has been that some individuals fail to see that when you look at some of these issues via the perspective of the WHOLE antiques and collecibles market; you will understand that number one, other collecting fields have and are dealing with MUCH worse issues at present time. Number two, 'pressing' is NOT as severe as what is being done in areas of great interest like the rare book collecting field, the art collecting field, and the overall auction circuit. Finally, as shown by the respectful business relationship of NCS and NGC; this has already been done and implemented quite nicely (in the coin collecting field); by the parent company of CGC; The Certified Collectibles Group. Therefore, and forgive me if I offend, I fail to see the issue here. I think a 'wait and see' attitude is a much better prognosis then a 'dump and sell' attitude that certain individuals may adopt. This is especially true given the fact that numerous individuals have attempted to argue with me over the years that comic books are an 'excellent investment.' Again, just my opinion. Kind Regards, 'mint' Are the black parts words? YES. Edited to add: I have to quit hitting the 'quote' button.

I believe we have a new drinking game! Oh, we are back 'on me.' Does this mean I have to buy the first round? I don't drink...but I love a good old fashioned Coca-Cola Classic. You're not a Pepsi fan by chance are you? Kind Regards, 'mint'

What, no love for my mint smackdown? What if I add, "Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy." That was a 'smackdown?' Surely you can do better? At least for my 'fans' who 'lurk' here. For someone who does not seem to agree with any of my views, you sure have a way of bringing me back into the conversation. I will assume you never bothered to read my responses. 'mint' I've no problem with your views. It's the presentation of those views. It's telling somebody who's been dealing comics full-time longer than you've likely been alive that they need to cease to be part of the conversation because you're a part-time antiques dealer with a vast storehouse of knowledge. Especially when that person has been respectful and gracious enough to directly ask your opinion. It's kinda like Pauly Shore giving Olivier acting tips because of Shore's vast experience in cinema. This board is a small community. A lot of the folks here know each other in one capacity or another. It's no hyperbole to say that some of the most influential collectors and dealers in the world regularly frequent this forum. I submit to you that you have far more to learn from the folks here than you could ever teach them. And I honestly don't mean that to be insulting to you, though you might take it as such. There is a tremendous stockpile of knowledge on these boards. More than I'm afraid you recognize, and, if so, that would be a shame. If you're able to step back and learn as well as pass on advice to your disciples, that would be great. There are people here who can teach you stuff about the hobby that you're never going to get in a Gary Rinker piece. And I don't suggest that I'm one of those people who's got something to teach you. My mention of a smackdown was an attempt to diffuse the situation via humor. Obviously it ain't working. So I won't go there again. I'll back away from this and derail no more. Who is Gary Rinker? Your attempt at humor is greater than you realize (!)! That being said, I want to bring up one point before I let this die. These discussions I have on this forum are NOT about 'winning or losing' as some make these out to be. That is a very immature view to possess (and I am by no means implying that you possess that view). They are about learning and sharing knowledge. Personally, I have learned a great deal about comic books from this forum; a little too much to be quite honest as I have yet to have a need for most of the knowledge gained. That being said, you need not compare me to people who have vast amounts of knowledge in one field of other. I succeeded in the antiques and collectibles business because I have a vast knowledge of multitude fields of interest. I do not argue that a lot of cross-collectors and dealers here have a similar amount of knowledge. While you may not agree with how I may seem to come across; my only interest is sharing and learning from that knowledge. My original signature post was 'here to learn.' I only hope other individuals also learn from me as well. Main take away; none of my posts are ever about being 'right or wrong.' It is always about the sharing of knowledge. I have said this multiple times. Kind Regards, Shrunkenhead. Respectfully yours, 'mint'

I should probably add Shrunkenhead, that I mean this 'tongue and cheek.' Do not take my response above seriously... I was just 'baiting you.' No offense taken. You are entitled to your opinion. 'mint'

What, no love for my mint smackdown? What if I add, "Senator, I served with Jack Kennedy. I knew Jack Kennedy. Jack Kennedy was a friend of mine. Senator, you're no Jack Kennedy." That was a 'smackdown?' Surely you can do better? At least for my 'fans' who 'lurk' here. For someone who does not seem to agree with any of my views, you sure have a way of bringing me back into the conversation. I will assume you never bothered to read my responses. 'mint'

Mint … I find some of the views in your posts interesting however you tend to make these comments in nearly every post you make. I’m a noob here on the forums and in the little time I’ve spent here it’s been well established by you that you collect other things (and allegedly very knowledgeable) other than comics … so do I and probably many others but do you feel it necessary to state this repetitively ? Maybe just put these comments in your sig if it’s that relevant to every topic you post about I’m not trying to be disparaging at all … just pointing out something you may be overlooking when you post. I appreciate your comment. You are aware I already take a lot of criticism for what is already stated in my signature line now? Ironically, I never once attempted to post a link to the stated article in my signature line (I don't even know if that is allowed, per forum rules; regardless). I also do not think that my signature line is that controversial at present time; or ever was. You bring up a great point. However, even now when I am involved in numerous discussion fellow borad members ask if they are supposed to know what I have posted about in other 'threads.' I will agree that one cannot know or possibly remember everything about what a certain member has posted about. That being said, there are underlying principles that every member here does express or 'stand for' regularly. These are generally known because they become a constant 'theme' throughtout certain individual's posts. Again, and we seem to be visiting this topic a lot in a thread that is NOT about me; I do not mean to offend anyone in any post I make. Ironically, I really wish that the people who criticize my posts would take the time to criticize the few forum members who choose to resort to foul language and name calling when discussing any matter of interest with me that they disagree with. It is during these times that most of these members remain the most silent of all. I find this greatly disturbing (not to mention quite ironic). In conclusion, my only discord has been that some individuals fail to see that when you look at some of these issues via the perspective of the WHOLE antiques and collecibles market; you will understand that number one, other collecting fields have and are dealing with MUCH worse issues at present time. Number two, 'pressing' is NOT as severe as what is being done in areas of great interest like the rare book collecting field, the art collecting field, and the overall auction circuit. Finally, as shown by the respectful business relationship of NCS and NGC; this has already been done and implemented quite nicely (in the coin collecting field); by the parent company of CGC; The Certified Collectibles Group. Therefore, and forgive me if I offend, I fail to see the issue here. I think a 'wait and see' attitude is a much better prognosis then a 'dump and sell' attitude that certain individuals may adopt. This is especially true given the fact that numerous individuals have attempted to argue with me over the years that comic books are an 'excellent investment.' Again, just my opinion. Kind Regards, 'mint'

Huh? Here is a copy and paste bolded.so I don`t have to write it again. Follow the arrow,as that`s a hint. For the most part comics that had a little value of less than a dollar until someone put a 9.8 or sig on them. Think about it,as most bronze, copper and modern comic book books valued at nm in Overstreet go for a few dollars at best in nm, but when you put that 9.6 or 9.8 label on them, then the value goes up significantly or if the 9.8 doesn`t work, then add a sig as well for the book to have some value. It`s all about artificial value created for the majority of these comics because if you took off that 9.8 or it didn`t get that sig with someone witnessing it, then the nm comic reverts back to being worth to less than a dollar. Myself from now on I am sticking to just golden age and silver age comics to be certified,as the rest of the market just doesn`t seem like a good bet, unless they are super uber keys. Who cares if I get the latest issue of the Image hot comic book in 9.8 and sig if everybody else has one as well? Where is the future value in that? It reminds me of the Franklin Mint and the manufacturing of collectibles. I just have to ask. You have said in the past 'CC' that you think the Walking Dead #1 is still a faily good investment. Do you still feel that way? I don't think this announcement should change your mind either way, but I was wondering if it had. You already know my opinion on the matter. Kind Regards, 'mint'

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies. It is CCG that is buying Matt's company. Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company. So why has there never been a problem with CCG owning both NGC and NCS? How's the health of that market fared? In my opinion, it is a necessary evil. One that is accepted and used. Think of it this way, if you have a wondeful coin collection and your house burns down, I guarantee you will call NCS. Any collector would. If you discover a 'rare' coin covered in 'grime' and horribly toned, you can use the services of NCS. It is accepted in the marketplace. 'mint' What about currency pressing? Has that too become acceptable? Once again you are comparing 'apples to oranges.' Currency (i.e. paper money) is made out linen just as much as it paper (actually more). Currency is printed with raised inks which help create embossing. Therefore, 'pressing' can be proven and actually causes the removal of the embossing on the note. A comic book being 'pressed' cannot be determined 100% of the time. If I stack a collection of high grade raw comic books tightly in a box for a period of time, you would not be able to (if done right) tell the 'pressed' book from the book from the box. Therefore, the pressing of currency actually causes physical damage to the piece in question. Pressing a comic book (when done right) does not. Personally, I will not buy currency without the 'EPQ' or 'PPQ' designation. This argument has been brought up numerous times on this very forum and cross-collectors like myself have each time attempted to explain this. Also, as to the PM's and emails I have been receiving, I really do not want to enter a discussion comparing art to comic books; or even antiques. As I have said many times before, what goes on in the comic book collecting field does not even hold a 'candle' to what goes on in other collecting fields. This is such a minor issue in my opinion, it does not bother me at all. I have listed examples in this thread and others. Not that anyone cares, but 'pressing' (as I have said multiple times throughout this same thread) is considered minor conservation to me; not restoration. It also does not deserve to get this much attention in my opinion. I did post a thread several days ago in another sub-forum, about my FIRST experience with 'pressing.' I still continue to buy high grade books that I know have been pressed as well. Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong. Respectfully, 'mint' Wow, if anyone was on the fence about you being a condescending prick, they are no longer on the fence. And I welcome any and all criticism I receive. You have to understand that most individuals who do not 'like me' already have me on 'ignore.' Second, my intent (however taken) is NEVER meant to come across as egotistcal, self absorbed, or (insert any phrase used to describe me in the past or present, here). While I am direct, I am also generally factual (or try ot be in most cases). In most constructive arguments I choose to enter into I am generally the one who is posting links, articles, quotes, and third party commentary. I do not claim to be an 'expert' in comic books; nor have I ever. I do assert that I have vast knowledge in a lot of fields of antiques and collectibles. I also worry about those individuals who tend to fall for 'speculation and hype' and buy items out of 'investment' without a proven plan of action. I have said this before many times. My signature line even answers to this affect. In other words, I do CARE a lot about the forum members I have helped and those who continue to seek my advice. Believe it or not, I actually welcome your commentary as it forces me to reanalyze what I posted. Personally, I see nothing wrong with stating the obvious. Some individuals in this thread have stated quotes similar to 'well from what I have seen on (insert stated collectibles television show here)'. What anyone has seen on a collectibles or antiques television show does not validate one's knowledge on the subject being stated. It is incorrect to compare the subject of 'pressing' to that as to what goes on in other collecting fields. I do not KNOW what topics of collecting fields you know about. However, we can now build a chair from parts found at a local Home Depot, age it, and sell it through a major house for tens of thousands of dollars or more. Therefore, from MY perspective, you have to understand that the subject of 'pressing' is not even an issue by my standards. I stand by this. Want proof? No one has yet to answer the comparison made between NCS and NGC (i.e. in the coin collecting fields). This would be the most likely comparison, would it not? The Certified Collectibles Group owns both a 'conservation company that deals with coins' and 'owns a grading company as well.' I think this relationship alone would answer a lot of questions as to how the relationship between both stated companies in question will work. All I encourage some of my fellow forum members to do is take a broader view of the collecting market as a whole and look at it from a different perspective. Books like 'Killer Stuff and Tons of Money' and 'Objects of Desire' go into great detail as to what has been happening within BOTH the antiques and collectibles markets for years. I think I bring a 'unique' view to these forums. While I understand that a lot of forum members do not like me or my chosen 'views' there are some who actually appreciate them. Again, I do not mean to come off harsh, egotistical, or whatever else has been said about me in the past. I do apologize to those respectful forum members who may have taken my posts in a manner not intended. Now as someone has already said, this post has been derailed. For that I will shoulder SOME of the blame. 'mint'

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.' When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day. Well, to be fair, mint, moondog was only asking a question. He didn't seem to be stating or implying anything. You coming on here and explaining is pretty much what he was looking for. (thumbs u Andy Exactly, hence no need for the supercilious attitude. This was not said to be taken that way. I think you know this. Kind Regards, 'mint' Edited to add: I do apologize if it was taken INCORRECTLY. Fair enough?

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.' When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day. Well, to be fair, mint, moondog was only asking a question. He didn't seem to be stating or implying anything. You coming on here and explaining is pretty much what he was looking for. (thumbs u Andy I thank you Andy for your comment as it is very fair and unbiased. Therefore, I will answer in kind. I just get upset because every time a 'pressing' thread starts on these very forums, we end up going down the list of various antiques and collectibles that we can 'attempt' to compare it to. If you personally (and I mean this in general), consider it restoration you are going to try to compare it to something extreme. If you consider it conservation, you may attempt to compare it to something less extreme. It is in a class all it's own, in my opinion. Someone posted a thread saying 'from what they have seen on Antiques Roadshow.' Once again, if your personal experience with antiques only comes from what you have seen on a television show, maybe you should reserve judgement for those who handle these items on a daily basis and know the business inside and out. Just a suggestion. I personally have twenty two emails to answer comparing this issue to everything from art prints to art glass to furniture. I really do not wish to get into this as I already answered my view on the subject earlier in this thread. No offense to Shrunkenhead or anyone else, but I am very confident in what I know in the antiques market. A lot of forum members have even sought my advice over the years. This is not to say that there is not anyone as knowledgeable as someone like myself on these forums, and I have never once alluded to that fact. I also would never call myself a true 'expert' otherwise I would have to be in the antiques business on a full time basis (to be fair). I also work a career as well, much like most forum members. I do however, post articles and other 'expert' views to occasionally back up my points. My signature line shows this. That is all I am saying. If you want to compare another collecting field's process to 'pressing' you should be very well versed in it. This is a topic that some feel very strongly about. I however, do not consider 'pressing' a major issue. That is only my opinion. Respectfully, 'mint'

I'm sorry, but this is so undeserved. It's pretty clear that you don't know who you are 'talking' to on these boards. If so, you might not be so confident in your 'expertise.' When it comes to the hobby we talk about on these pages most of the time, I'll take Moondog's opinion over yours any day. OPINION duly noted.

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies. It is CCG that is buying Matt's company. Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company. So why has there never been a problem with CCG owning both NGC and NCS? How's the health of that market fared? In my opinion, it is a necessary evil. One that is accepted and used. Think of it this way, if you have a wondeful coin collection and your house burns down, I guarantee you will call NCS. Any collector would. If you discover a 'rare' coin covered in 'grime' and horribly toned, you can use the services of NCS. It is accepted in the marketplace. 'mint' What about currency pressing? Has that too become acceptable? Once again you are comparing 'apples to oranges.' Currency (i.e. paper money) is made out linen just as much as it paper (actually more). Currency is printed with raised inks which help create embossing. Therefore, 'pressing' can be proven and actually causes the removal of the embossing on the note. A comic book being 'pressed' cannot be determined 100% of the time. If I stack a collection of high grade raw comic books tightly in a box for a period of time, you would not be able to (if done right) tell the 'pressed' book from the book from the box. Therefore, the pressing of currency actually causes physical damage to the piece in question. Pressing a comic book (when done right) does not. Personally, I will not buy currency without the 'EPQ' or 'PPQ' designation. This argument has been brought up numerous times on this very forum and cross-collectors like myself have each time attempted to explain this. Also, as to the PM's and emails I have been receiving, I really do not want to enter a discussion comparing art to comic books; or even antiques. As I have said many times before, what goes on in the comic book collecting field does not even hold a 'candle' to what goes on in other collecting fields. This is such a minor issue in my opinion, it does not bother me at all. I have listed examples in this thread and others. Not that anyone cares, but 'pressing' (as I have said multiple times throughout this same thread) is considered minor conservation to me; not restoration. It also does not deserve to get this much attention in my opinion. I did post a thread several days ago in another sub-forum, about my FIRST experience with 'pressing.' I still continue to buy high grade books that I know have been pressed as well. Just is just my opinion, but please do not attempt to compare the pressing of comic books to another collecting field that you may not be educated in. All that this does is either make you look like you do not know what you are talking about; or causes someone who is knowledgeable in the stated field to come and state facts, thus proving you wrong. Respectfully, 'mint'

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies. It is CCG that is buying Matt's company. Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company. You can try and spin it as if it's not...but they didn't "acquire" classics because they would help the coin/card business. Once again, NGC (owned by the Certified Collectibles Group who owns CGC) already owns NCS (a conservation company for coins). Coin collectors everywhere are probably wondering what all the 'fuss' is about as this company has been 'in house' (under the same company umbrella as NGC) for years. Edited to add: If you look at how one submits to NCS and then NGC,. this may help answer the questions as to how this process will work between CGC and now Classics Incorporated. Does NGS REMOVE restoration, so the item can be sold as completely unrestored? It is more done as 'conservation' (however, not every collector agrees with the use and definition of that word). That being said, have you checked out their website? www.ncscoin.com So comic collectors want their slabbing company to more ethical than coin slabbing companies. Is that so wrong? You want me to answer a question based on total 'generalizations?' You are assuming based on your own analysis and perspectives (which are self biased, as are mine, or anyone's for that matter) that all comic collectors are against this. Am I not a comic book collector? I fail to see any issue with this acquisition. At te end of the day, much like NGC and NCS; BOTH companies will flourish. I also collect a TON of other items, including coins. A lot of people cross-collect in today's day and age. Again, my opinion means very little in the full scope of things (as does any one's individual opinion). Time will tell, but I fail to see how this will affect the market overall. If anyone however, wants to sell their books at 'fire sale prices' because of this, I among many other collectors and dealers will gladly make offers. Still, I do respect your opinion and you are entitled to it. I would not however make a bet that comic collecting will change much, just because this announcement means a lot to certain individuals on this forum. Respectfully, 'mint'

This. By this same logic most auction companies, dealers, and even some collectors would also have to adhere to a very strict model of doing business. In theory this could be possible (note I said in theory). The problem is once someone crosses the 'line' someone else will cross it too. Said a different way, the fundamentals that guide any antique or collecting field are usually not done out of ethics (sad to say). I can tell you horrid stories of downright fraud and abuse in most collecting fields. The fact of the matter is at the end of the day only a small percentage of collectors and entusiasts care. Another problem that should be examined is that of these individuals that do raise concerns, each one has their own set standard of what is considered ethical and possibly unethical.

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies. It is CCG that is buying Matt's company. Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company. You can try and spin it as if it's not...but they didn't "acquire" classics because they would help the coin/card business. Once again, NGC (owned by the Certified Collectibles Group who owns CGC) already owns NCS (a conservation company for coins). Coin collectors everywhere are probably wondering what all the 'fuss' is about as this company has been 'in house' (under the same company umbrella as NGC) for years. Edited to add: If you look at how one submits to NCS and then NGC,. this may help answer the questions as to how this process will work between CGC and now Classics Incorporated. Does NGS REMOVE restoration, so the item can be sold as completely unrestored? It is more done as 'conservation' (however, not every collector agrees with the use and definition of that word). That being said, have you checked out their website? www.ncscoin.com

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies. It is CCG that is buying Matt's company. Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company. So why has there never been a problem with CCG owning both NGC and NCS? How's the health of that market fared? In my opinion, it is a necessary evil. One that is accepted and used. Think of it this way, if you have a wondeful coin collection and your house burns down, I guarantee you will call NCS. Any collector would. If you discover a 'rare' coin covered in 'grime' and horribly toned, you can use the services of NCS. It is accepted in the marketplace. 'mint'

CGC will not own the company. They will be sister companies. It is CCG that is buying Matt's company. Classics only works on comics, unless they spread out to coins and cards, the issue is only relevant with CGC items...so the relationship is there, between the two parts of the umbrella company. You can try and spin it as if it's not...but they didn't "acquire" classics because they would help the coin/card business. Once again, NGC (owned by the Certified Collectibles Group who owns CGC) already owns NCS (a conservation company for coins). Coin collectors everywhere are probably wondering what all the 'fuss' is about as this company has been 'in house' (under the same company umbrella as NGC) for years. Edited to add: If you look at how one submits to NCS and then NGC,. this may help answer the questions as to how this process will work between CGC and now Classics Incorporated.

CGC doesn't sell trust. They sell an evaluation, and they make the rules by which that evaluation happens. It's up to us to buy into their rules, and judging by their wait times, they've had plenty of buy in. If they're not selling trust, what are they selling? Trust in their grading ability. Trust in the impartiality (not grading certain people's book more favorably). Trust they won't damage your book. So on and so on. How does adding Matt change any of that? You may look at it differently because you are already an expert and probably know what should improve a grade, so you might not have the same need for Matt's input...but when I would meet with Matt, years ago, about a book, he would TELL me, what he would suggest be done to the book, to improve the grade. Fixing this or that, or pressing (he pretty much always suggested pressing). I collect older lower grade books and the ones I wanted "fixed" had restoration already...so maybe there was more that he could tell me... However, I think there is an issue, with a grading company owning another company that can "improve" the books. Let's say the graders are impartial (which I hope and expect they are)...what happens if the book comes back a lower grade than Matt guesses, or as restored when Matt says it should no longer show as restored. I've had that happen when I gave him books. Will there be a do-over? Will you have to pay another set of CGC fees? The last time I gave Matt a book to remove restoration, some was missed. I was told I'd have to resubmit it to him and to pay CGC again until the resto was found,, that was the "normal" procedure. What will happen when CGC owns the company? I wish Matt luck, and congratulations...but I DO think there are going to be many issues here. I have already mentioned this on page 14 (unsure what page exactly, as my post is 'buried' like most others in this thread) and others have mentioned this after me, but I fail to see how this is any different than the relationship between NCS and NGC; BOTH owned and operated by the Certified Collectibles Group? At the end of the day when the dust settles, this will have almost ZERO effect on the hobby as a whole. Pressing is already a wide spread practice. If you saw my post in the comic book grading and restoration issues sub-forum; I have been what I call a 'major' collector of comic books since 2008; buying most of my books when the market went into a free fall in 2010. I just submitted my first submission for pressing months ago. Interestingly enough, out of three books chosen for a possible upgrade out of nine sent; only ONE got a grde bump of ONE lone grade (9.2 to a 9.4). The other two pressed and graded came back the same grade sent; and six were rejected for pressing. The reason why this is 'major news' in 'comic book collecting land' is because it now affects your (or our) chosen collecting field. This is NOTHING compared to what happens in other fields of the antiques and collectibles market; which I am involved in. Even collectors of 'rare' books face more prominent threats then taking an original comic book and attempting to 'press' out a corner ding or bend or stress line. In conclusion, I really think it comes down to how an INDIVIDUAL collector defines 'pressing.' I see pressing as minor conservation. Others see it as restoration. Frankly, I don't care about it; as I buy well known 'pressed' books all the time. That being said, I can understand why a person who may consider this process 'restoration' being upset over the announcement. Respectfully, 'mint'

Pretty sure the anwser is no. Another reason to buy the graders notes... You raise an interesting point, but I doubt it would be listed in the grader's notes either. 'mint'

-Captainofindustry Quite possibly one of the best statements I heard in awhile and well worth remembering...not to mention repeating. 'mint' edited to add credit to the original author of the quote...