mintcollector

Nope, dude backed out claiming "butt buy." Did GPA correct the sale listed for the 9.9? I find this to be of grave concern. This happens a lot on eBay and is why you cannot judge a safe price to pay for a book based on past auction results. Buyers are able to manipulate the market just by clicking a high BIN price and the price still shows up in past listings in most cases. This whole process needs to be reviewed and refined as it is happening all too often across all collecting fields.

Thank you for the feedback and I can understand why you wouldn't want to continue at that point. It was meant to get you to respond to my original concern that your comment could be read perhaps in a way that you did not intend. To be fair, I did not make an inflammatory statement until after you reacted very strongly in the first place with CAPS and all. In any case, we don't need to carry on any further. I hear you. Caps, really? Can I see this quote? I never responded to you in caps... Ok, not all caps. My bad, only a few words in caps. However, you appear quite agitated at this point. See below. Yes, that is all caps, right? It is your bad. If this is the worse response you ever received after calling someone a 'conspiracy theorist' versus an 'experienced dealer' I would think you should be thanking me.

Thank you for the feedback and I can understand why you wouldn't want to continue at that point. It was meant to get you to respond to my original concern that your comment could be read perhaps in a way that you did not intend. To be fair, I did not make an inflammatory statement until after you reacted very strongly in the first place with CAPS and all. In any case, we don't need to carry on any further. I hear you. Caps, really? Can I see this quote? I never responded to you in caps... Edited to add: Please show me this post. You quoted everything I said in this thread and in the other silver age thread I mentioned I only responded to you once. I really want to see what you are referring to...

Rfoiii, In all honesty I fail to see what is wrong with anything I wrote. Furthermore, by saying that I sounded 'more like a conspiracy theorist than an experienced dealer’; do you really think I wanted to carry on this discussion any further? Why would anyone? If I recall, you had also got very defensive to several other well respected board members in a silver age thread about the 'top ten silver age investment comic books of 2013' (for those who wish to view this thread this is also the name of the thread as well). Perhaps it's time to take your own advice (direct from your own signature line): "The aim of argument, or of discussion, should not be victory, but progress."

Not everything you see on eBay is illegal and just because you don't like the result doesn't mean it wasn't legit. Yes, it's just because I don't like the price. Obviously, I was NEVER asked to manipulate auction data, right? Are you serious? This is an extremely SPECULATIVE item, nothing more. Come see me in twenty five years when the seller can't get half that for the book. We agree on this book 100%, it won't be worth a tenth of what it is now in 5 years. I was just responding to the fact that your comment read more like "conspiracy theorist" than "experienced dealer." Not saying you are one or the other, I don't know you. I never mentioned a date of five years. That being said, you are welcome to classify me any way you want as long as it makes you feel better. I could care less either way.

Not everything you see on eBay is illegal and just because you don't like the result doesn't mean it wasn't legit. Yes, it's just because I don't like the price. Obviously, I was NEVER asked to manipulate auction data, right? Are you serious? This is an extremely SPECULATIVE item, nothing more. Come see me in twenty five years when the seller can't get half that for the book.

The question is was the sale actually completed? There have been many falsified sales on eBay that have gained media attention and the like. The 1.2 million dollar video game sale was one (it was never confirmed as completed from all the reports I have seen). Others include a lot of high profile auctions used to generate interest for their respective collecting genres. When I was more active on eBay, I saw a lot of 'manipulative' auction data on video games alone. Don't even get me started on what was occurring in the collectibles markets overall. There is no question in my mind that a lot of high profile price levels seen on eBay are being manipulated for the benefit of a few greedy and ethically challenged individuals. It also surprises me as to how many supposedly 'ethical' sellers and dealers look the other way and refuse to comment on these actions. This is why it is important to view ONLY completed auctions on eBay and use some common sense when reviewing the sold prices in relation to the buyer's history and overall description of the item in question; along with an overall validity of the seller. In conclusion, I am NOT saying that this sale did not take place. I am only asking for more concrete evidence before confirming it as a guaranteed sale. I wonder if GPA will add this auction sale to their site? This particular book in question is very 'hot' right now and it is very possible that this sale is completely legit. I just know to use caution when analyzing these kind of trends as market manipulators are always at work perfecting their craft. For evidence of this just look at the manipulation being done in the precious metals markets. I wonder how all those people who thought the 'sky was falling' and bought gold at $1800 an ounce are doing right now? I really feel sorry for the individuals who sold their financial investments at the bottom of the market crash only to buy precious metals in the heat of a speculative market.

When the television series is cancelled the true test of this comic book's value will start. Until then buy WD #1 if you like it and enjoy the ride. Just don't consider it an 'investment' and you will be okay. Will some 'speculators' get hurt when the bubble eventually pops? Yes, they always do. Unfortunately I have learned that you can present all the evidence you want to a 'speculator' and they will continue to view the subject matter through the spectacles of rose colored glasses. Therefore, all I can say is time will tell. I can cite many other examples similar to this, but it just serves to foster additional arguments about speculation. As a result there really is no point.

For all those who actually have a Wii U; is anyone looking forward to Pikmin 3? I always thought theses games were highly original, but strange. Got to love Nintendo!

Never knew this. I normally don't have enough time to spend on the Rebel Scum Forums, but I hold them in high esteem. Sorry this happened to you. This must have occurred when I was really sick and dealing with my health issues. Kind Regards, 'mint'

Odd question, but I suppose I'll bite. Does eBay now offer 2+ years of auction results? If you guys can wait until I have more time I will gladly expand on part of this. Keep in mind I do not know the MOTU market, so I can only state the modest facts behind my statements regarding MASK toys,.. Kind Regards, Shawn Just struck me as odd as seeing someone starting a "GPA help" post in this very thread. I wasn't coming from that angle. I have no horse in this race other than I have always had an interest in collectibles markets beyond what I collect but that I grew up with. There have been several statements about exploding prices and I just wanted to hear about some concrete examples out of genuine curiosity/interest. I grew up with all of these toys and it has always fascinated me to see them adopted as collectibles. M.A.S.K. came out during the waning years of me playing with toys but I was all in from the minute they hit the shelves. They were awesome because they were a great combination of GI Joe and Transformers and then the whole mask thing played into the superhero genre. The toys were great but I lost interest after a year or two and moved on to other things. Its fun to look back and see how the toy line developed and how it is now an emerging collectible. Gotcha. The two year timeframe is what stuck out most. SO MUCH has changed just in the past 6-8 months with 80's toys that you surely could track past sales reasonably well Googling a particular toy and seeing what activity has followed the specific figure/character and/or MOC variation. 2 years...8 months...whatever. Just curious of examples. And if I look it up, then only I learn. But if you share, then we all learn. I'm sure you're overzealousness explains part of the motivation for making the ask, but I don't understand why you need me to do the work for you. I've seen way too much well-intentioned information sharing being used against me in this hobby (and historically on these boards with similar inquiries via PM), and it's a hundred times worse in vintage toys, so pardon me for suggesting that Google search and eBay are the droids you are looking for. I have to agree with ComicWiz here. It has ben my perspective that there are several individuals on certain forums (and I am by no means referring to you or any other individual participating in this thread) who will start a 'unique' discussion with me in an attempt to gain well researched pricing information that took me time and money to formulate. Lately I haven't taken the bait, but I tend to volunteer more tips of the trade than most other dealers and well versed collectors. I even get PM's from other forum members asking me why I am so forth coming with this information. I have no problem helping anyone learn the basics and even help them further along in their venture, but I am not overtly helpful any more. For one it really serves no purpose as those who think of things only based on past performance (i.e. proponents of the so called 'rule of 25') cannot usually be changed. Speculation runs rampant in most of the pop culture based collecting fields and ironically, most of these items had production runs in the millions and more and more are being saved and discovered as time goes on.

Odd question, but I suppose I'll bite. Does eBay now offer 2+ years of auction results? If you guys can wait until I have more time I will gladly expand on part of this. Keep in mind I do not know the MOTU market, so I can only state the modest facts behind my statements regarding MASK toys,.. Kind Regards, Shawn Just struck me as odd as seeing someone starting a "GPA help" post in this very thread. I wasn't coming from that angle. I have no horse in this race other than I have always had an interest in collectibles markets beyond what I collect but that I grew up with. There have been several statements about exploding prices and I just wanted to hear about some concrete examples out of genuine curiosity/interest. I grew up with all of these toys and it has always fascinated me to see them adopted as collectibles. M.A.S.K. came out during the waning years of me playing with toys but I was all in from the minute they hit the shelves. They were awesome because they were a great combination of GI Joe and Transformers and then the whole mask thing played into the superhero genre. The toys were great but I lost interest after a year or two and moved on to other things. Its fun to look back and see how the toy line developed and how it is now an emerging collectible. Gotcha. The two year timeframe is what stuck out most. SO MUCH has changed just in the past 6-8 months with 80's toys that you surely could track past sales reasonably well Googling a particular toy and seeing what activity has followed the specific figure/character and/or MOC variation. 2 years...8 months...whatever. Just curious of examples. And if I look it up, then only I learn. But if you share, then we all learn. Ebay unfortunately, does not offer two years of auction results. That being said, a site like Worth Point does. You can also track sales yourself using algorithms or a simple excel spreadsheet. This is great to do and I encourage individuals who get the 'investment mentality bug' to do this before ever buying anything. This allows them to learn the truth about a particular market and make their own informed decisions. I can tell you that a lot of things most people think are 'hot' have actually fallen in price just by looking at my own research. The opposite is also true. For instance, Star Wars 12 back figures in AFA 80/85 + condition have increased. VGA graded NES games (mostly common titles) in 80/85 condition have fallen significantly (I deal them and luckily sold most of my stock when the prices were strong). Lego sets made after 2009 have failed to make any significant gains as of yet. Lego Star Wars is stagnant as most buyers of these sets realize that Lego is going to probably rerelease most of the sets that they could not get the first time around. The worst thing to happen to this line is the fact that it got renewed for several more years (it first premiered in 1999). The market is becoming oversaturated and stale. I remember a time when Kenner MASK toys (even AFA graded which is what I collect) where not in this high of demand. I paid only $325 for my Slingshot (AFA graded) and only about $200 for my Firefly in the same grade. Today these prices are much higher.

Odd question, but I suppose I'll bite. Does eBay now offer 2+ years of auction results? If you guys can wait until I have more time I will gladly expand on part of this. Keep in mind I do not know the MOTU market, so I can only state the modest facts behind my statements regarding MASK toys,.. Kind Regards, Shawn

It still is doing better than an oz of gold has. Walking Dead #1 CGC 9.8 = $1500 an oz of gold is way down = $1235 this is extremely relevant as every TWD reader has to make that snap decision: TWD #1 or Kruegerrand? Everybody knows only Gold and Silver Age books have intrinsic value, the rest are just fiat comics. No bronze age? Hulk 181, Asm 129,121,122, hero for hire 1, marvel premiere 15....? It was a joke directed at the anti-federal reserve crowd's obsession with precious metals as the only legitimate backing for currency, perhaps a bit too esoteric. Not at all. I thought it was quite funny...this is especially true if you visit the coin side of this forum as of late...

However, lesser known examples should not be selling for as much. Just look at the MASK and Godzilla toy lines. After Toy Hunter brought more attention to the lines, speculation started to run rampant and prices soared. Visionairies, Rock Lords, and MUSCLE have all seen similar gains. Ironically, Battle Beasts sell for a steal, but they have yet to be featured on Toy Hunter. Something tells me that is about to change and the prices will begin to show this. Maybe it is time to dig them out of the 'room of gloom?' The lesser known toy markets have always had interest, but the pool of collectors chasing them has shrunk significantly over the years. Toy Hunter may partly be having an effect on demand for more obscure toys, and it's mostly to do with viewers rekindling memories of toys they grew up with and loved. The other part is how the show sensationalizes interest and demand for the toys it features, however I think that has more to do with the choice of edits and cherry-picking valuations data to make the show entertaining for American viewers than any deliberate attempt by Jordan to hype the market. That said, 80's toys have been hot for quite some time. The most significant increase, by a landslide is with vintage Star Wars. They are selling strong and not only in North America, but around the world. The certification aspect is well noted, but I feel it is over-extending people's purchases because it's still a relatively new thing for the average toy collector. Meaning if raw/ungraded examples are marketed near or around the price range of a certified example, I find the majority of collectors are still green as far having the knowledge to test or resist those prices (good example is Sharks photo of the shop listing an ROTJ Falcon at $800 - that would be more in the AFA 80 range, and should sell for about 30-40% less when it's ungraded). People who are caught up with what Jordan says on the show (as far as value opinions), or are taking the dealers word for it when they are buying at shows are caught in an impulse purchase more than an informed one. This dynamic is practically non-existent in comics, and there are several good reasons. First, we've had the benefit of seeing this play out in certification for over 10 years. Secondly, we have multiple valuation references (Overstreet, GPA, online mining of data points). And thirdly, while pressing and optimization plays have allowed the comic market to remain on resuscitation and prolong an inevitable softening of values across all categories - allowing specs/collectors/dealers to continue buying in "as is" condition with the potential for improvable defects leading to an upgrade and profit - this upgrade play is much, much more limited in vintage toys. So while these aspects are either non-existent or lacking in vintage toys, the major play that's happening now is with collectors buying raw and hoping to hit 85/90's to make healthy gains. The major constraints are it's more hit and miss than with comics. AFA turnaround times (TAT) are getting progressively worse and unless you're willing to pony up more money to have your items returned to you faster than the average 6 month wait through their standard service, you may well lose out on a window of opportunity to get the best strike on returns while the iron is still hot. More importantly, I think there is also a lot more manipulation of sales data going on with nosebleed grades, as the last flurry of 90 12 Backs and SW/ESB 3 Packs had some unusual bidding activity, with a few SW-focused community members not only suspecting shilling, but with a handful of auctions believed to have hammered at record prices, people were receiving second chance offers even though there were multiple bidders who had priority on the auction bidding order. What will inevitably lead to the market cooling for 80's toys and secondary lines is more to do with changes in borrowing and interest rates on credit. Right now it is a very attractive time for speculators to gamify certification, but a lot of this has to do with their limited understanding of how things shake out in the market. Most have little experience and don't know how risky the whole game can be to play, and fewer are willing to sit on their purchases longer than a few months to stave off having interest eat into their margins. Unless AFA figures out a way to magically improve it's turnaround times and the economy can somehow stave off interest rate increases, there is a chance this frenzy may continue, or normalize with a slight possibility of correction. However I don't see the floor completely bottoming out on the toys which have remained popular and in demand for decades. The Star Wars frenzy will continue to rise leading up to 2015 without any doubt in my mind, and may possibly stretch out for at least another 5-7 years depending on how Disney demonstrates its competence in effectively marketing the property in film and merchandising. I agree with most of your points. I am by no means stating or implying that Jordan (of Toy Hunter fame) would have any reason to attempt to misrepresent or manipulate the market in any way. I also don't think that Mike and Frank of American Pickers are attempting to manipulate the vintage advertising market, but some individuals unfortunately do. Neither party has any reason to as they are in the entertainment and business of self promotion as well as the collectibles trade. Just look at how many cross promotional items like t-shirts and hats they sell. I do however think that the television shows themselves have caused a severe speculative bubble within certain areas of the trade susceptible to this kind of activity. Unfortunately pop culture items like toys, comic books, and games are more prone to experience this kind of manipulation due to the fact that most are readily available and recognizable. Very few items manufactured in the 1980's (in the realm of pop culture based collectibles) will sustain the price levels they have currently achieved. As much as I like Kenner's MASK line, it was not selling at such insane prices two years ago. In retrospect, as soon as it appeared on Toy Hunter over a period of several episodes, prices exploded. The same can be said for much later toy lines like Jurassic Park and TMNT. These items are in demand, but few are uncommon; and even fewer are truly 'rare.' I define 'rare' as less than 25 pieces in existence. I understand this may not be a fair analogy when compared to items that saw production runs in the millions, but that is the whole point I am trying to make. Speculators have entered these markets en masse. In conclusion, my fear is not caused by a period if speculation. All collecting fields suffer from this at some point in time. I even think in limited scope speculation can be good for markets. It brings much needed attention to certain aspects of collecting and when te bubble pops, it weeds out those who only entered the trade with dollar signs gleaming in their eyes. My fear is how large the current speculative bubble is. If it truly is caused by arm chair television reality show pickers entererimg the market en masse, what happens when a lot of these shows go off the air and tese individuals leave the market? We would be looking at an extremely dark period much worse than what occurred during the 1990's comic book crash. I meet a lot of pickers and dealers at various stages of their careers ( and I use the term loosely for some). I have never before encountered the amount of new blood entering the trade than I have in the last three years. At most flea markets and high end auctions I attend dealers outrank collectors two to one. This alone is what keeps me up at night. Just my observations. Kind Regards, 'Mint'

However, lesser known examples should not be selling for as much. Just look at the MASK and Godzilla toy lines. After Toy Hunter brought more attention to the lines, speculation started to run rampant and prices soared. Visionairies, Rock Lords, and MUSCLE have all seen similar gains. Ironically, Battle Beasts sell for a steal, but they have yet to be featured on Toy Hunter. Something tells me that is about to change and the prices will begin to show this. Maybe it is time to dig them out of the 'room of gloom?'

Anyone else notice the effect that Toy Hunter is having on the speculative nature of toys from the 1970's and 1980's? I never saw as much enthusiasm for toy lines like MASK and Micronauts than I do now. Now is a bad time to buy high grade examples of these items. Some of these items in high grade AFA have literally doubled and tripled in value overnight. MASK was a good but fairly unknown toy line until Toy Hunter started featuring the line regularlyon various episodes. Now much like gold at $1800 an once, no one wanted it until they saw it 'glitter' on TV and prices rose as a result. I expected this from lines like Star Wars (I most of my AFA 85 + 12 backs years ago when each figure cost less than $1000), but not secondary lines like MUSCLE and Visionairies. Glad I am not buying that kid of stuff. Eventually those lesser known secondary lines are going to drop significantly.

A lot of vintage decorations can be hard to find due to the fact that were made of paper. Halloween postcards are awesome as are the plastic toy decorations from times past..

Do you have any cool Halloween collectibles?

You just stated the most obvious issue with this book and the reason why I don't think it will ever be a good investment. If the book is falling when the show is out of season, what happens to the value of this book when it is cancelled? This is why I agree with Harry Rinker's assessment that the value of a collectible is speculative for the first thirty years of it's life. I am sorry, but Lego Stars Wars made after 2009 are also suffering from this same fate. Way too many were hoarded and the speculators hoarding them are continually dumping them on the secondary market as soon as a set is discontinued hoping for gains. Lego continues to release better and better sets; and then rereleases those sets that once were discontinued in better form. If you are looking for investment and not a quick flip, look to the early bronze, silver age, and golden era of comic books.

Get whatever system brings you joy. That being said, if you do choose the Xbox One just understand that there will be certain restrictions. Whether this has an effect on the future of video gaming has yet to be seen. However, judging by how myself and others who are actively involved in the second hand market and the business overall view this console I would say it is already being viewed negatively. I understand that true Xbox 'diehards' will attempt to defend Microsoft's decision, but I will not. I always said that both DRM and emulation would eventually greatly impact the video game industry. I just didn't think it would be this soon.

I agree fully. As previously stated, what happens in ten years when the Xbox One servers are shut down? This has been answered. http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/125064-Xbox-One-Games-Will-Still-be-Playable-When-Servers-Shut-Down. Which part has been answered? There are multiple statements made here. Once again, as previously stated multiple times in this thread; the answer is not good enough for me. I will not be supporting the Xbox One. You are welcome to buy whatever you like. I thank you! The DRM issue killed it for me. I never liked Microsoft to begin with; especially since I am a 'Mac' user. Never had a need. Good luck playing your Xbox Live Arcade games on the Xbox One. My Wii Virtual Console titles play just fine on my Wii U.

I agree fully. As previously stated, what happens in ten years when the Xbox One servers are shut down? This system is on a very slippery slope. I am now actually thankful for a decision made by Sony. As a Nintendo fan boy at heart, I do own all the next gen consoles, but I will NOT buy a(n) Xbox One based on principle alone. I don't care if I miss the next Halo, etc. Nintendo; who everyone crucified over te Wii U and even he 3DS, still has the best ideology when it comes to making consoles and games. Sony is a close second even though they are an entertainment company first and a video game company second.

I like this thread. Lots of cool pics of comic related items! I'd say in a small way we already succeeded in making this forum better!

I'll take the Wii U. Though if I had to take one it would be PS 4. I really don't play that many games any more, but that would be the system of choice aside from the Wii U and 3DS. Just my opinion.