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500Club
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Posts posted by 500Club
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The collector base at large wants first prints. If you like chasing unicorns, trying to prove the world wrong, be my guest. But my gut tells me the more likely scenario is you have a batch of second prints to sell.
-J.
I find this argument specious. The reverse is the suggestion you have no second prints, hence your stance.
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"Past performance is the best predictor of future success.".
This IS true. I'll add to it below.
Name one first appearance "key" where a second or subsequent printing is worth more than the first printing (other than the clearly anomalous MOS 18).-J.
None significant, that I can come up with. Just MOS 18, and now ASM 361 is threatening to be the second. However, that's not two out of thousands. There's only so many key first apps in the 1987 to 1995 time frame that had later printings. To the above, I can think of NM 87 and NM 100, and NM 100 is pretty soft.
So, in terms of past performance, I'm going to take into account the rise of MOS 4th and 5th printings, and the trend towards the ASM 361 second printing. I think there's enough going on to not dismiss the idea that the hobby may gravitate to these later printings.
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I think the thing that's being overlooked here, but that we all inherently know, is that it's a bit pointless to try to establish an absolute regarding collecting. In this argument, we're basically dealing with three types of collectors; first appearance hunters, reprint hunters, and completists. Considering that there are different numbers of those types of collectors (and the numbers could be changing all the time), and that each book has its own unique set of characteristics (print run, importance of characters and creators, availability in high grade). Mix all of those factors together and you can cherry pick data to illustrate pretty much any argument, but when you look at everything as a whole you'll see that there aren't going to be any absolutes, especially as collectors enter or leave the market or change their collecting focus.
+1
This. (thumbs u
-J.
Oh, you like that, huh?
So do I!
It's the epitome of my quote 'A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds', the very quote you proceeded to argue a couple of pages back. There are no absolutes.
And, speaking of consistencies, what is it with your collection of different sized scans? Do you have 20 different printers?
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I'm not sure if #361 2nd printing is rare but I do know that the market is showing an interest in this comic. Heck, I never thought an Amazing Spider-Man #361 CGC 9.8 1st printing would clear $200 but yet here we are. And Amazing Spider-Man #361 2nd printing seems to be right behind it. Feel free to argue about rarity but it's hard to debate the facts.
This is one of the rare instances that the first prints seem more desirable than the second. I've noticed this on raws, as well as graded:
At this time that appears to be true. The gap is closing recently. Last year it was crazy to see a 2nd printing get over $100+ in 9.8. This year they have been sales of 9.8 2nd printing in the $200's. That's a big gain in less than 365. Just right behind the 1st printing in 9.8 also in the $200's. I'm interested to see if the 2nd printing pulls ahead.
(thumbs u
If the only thing significant about the book is its current perception of "rarity", I wouldn't count on it. The vast majority of collectors want the first print of books like this. The second printing doesn't rank much above novelty status. It is the first print that is the "key". It is the first print that will go NM 98-style nuclear if/when a movie announcement is made, and it will be the one everyone will be chasing. (thumbs u
-J.
Be careful.
'A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.'
There are a number of examples now where later printings are more desirable. You may end up being right, but I could see things going he other way.
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Even if you forgo these forums and go and look at some of the review sites there's hardly a bad comic out there? ? ? http://comicbookroundup.com/comic-books/release-dates/2014-10-08 It's all the same bland monochrome canvas of words jumbled together where it's even more difficult to pick out any real gems.
(thumbs u
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But seriously, that highlights my point.
$3, $5, $7, $10....that's nothing compared to how few of these books are out there. All it would take is just some overall demand, and the books disappear.
(thumbs u
Beginning in the 1995-2000 era, newsstand circulation contracted dramatically. Cover price increases ended the days of LCSs ordering large numbers of copies of books beyond what was needed for files. In 1989, when McFarlane Spidey was really heating up, my LCS had large numbers of extra copies in the back room. Now, it's rare that an LCS could tie up that much capital.
The only thing arguing against this effect is the seeming lack of run collectors nowadays. There may never be a ton of demand for run books with no key features. Books that become keys, though...
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ok... "Um. Deadpool was a blip in 1993, and then was forgotten until 2008/2009.
He not only did not break out, he was completely forgotten for nearly 20 years"
So getting a solo book in 1997 didn't mean anything?
Did Silver Sable getting a solo book in 1992 mean anything?
Did Deathlok getting a solo book in 1991 AND 1999 mean anything?
Did Cable getting a solo book in 1993 mean anything?
Did Spiderwoman getting a solo book in 2000 mean anything?
Did Lobo having endless minis throughout the 90's mean anything?
We are talking about the value and demand of the first appearance, not whether the character was published or not. Lots and lots of characters are published, whose first appearances aren't worth much. Deadpool was one of them, from the time the "heat" faded after his first mini, until about 2009.
This is really silly. If you are a blip in 1993 and then forgotten you wouldn't have a ongoing monthly title come out 4 years later.
That's not his point. His point is that there was enough baseline interest in the character that he got a solo title, but he wasn't red hot until a few years back.
Certainly, in 1997, when the first solo series was launched, the rabid Deadpool buyers and Cosplayers did not exist yet.
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His legs look so goofy on that card.
Only the legs?
It's the first appearance of Deadpool's feet.
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But if you think they will, don't sleep on Annual 3 for the conclusion of the Judas Contract arc.
Even though I'm a Marvel guy, this was one arc I had to complete. If you are into reading comics, I think it's worth getting all four issues.
Don't stop there. Get issues 26-41 as well, which shows the genesis of the Judas Contract arc.
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Didn't work for long within 3 days she found the new account. 
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If you view cars as a completely utilitarian item, then sure. But some are made for racing and others for show. Similarly, there's utilitarian comic art, which is probably perfect for the big mainstream books and then there's art where the artist has a little creative freedom and chooses to make the reader think a little bit or look at an image twice.
That said, I do think the interiors of Low looked rushed in places, which obviously isn't good for the artist or reader.
The art doesn't have to be completely utilitarian, but it should fulfill its mandate of telling a story.
The great artists did both; told the story and made the reader think and look twice.
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The art is terrible.
The primary job of a comic book artist is to draw panels that flow well and tell a story. Somewhere, in the last ten years, that's been replaced by blurry, impressionistic art. A reader shouldn't have to look at a panel for an extended period of time to parse out what the image is trying to convey.
I don't find it a coincidence that there hasn't been a hot artist since Michael Turner burst upon the scene. Even Don Newton told a story better than your average current artist.
It's crazy how subjective art is and how different people are. I enjoy trying to figure out what's going on in a panel. I generally enjoy impressionistic art. I respect your opinion, but it think it's silly to say comics "should" be a certain way.
No sillier than saying a car should get you from point A to point B.
n.b. the bolded
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The art is terrible.
The primary job of a comic book artist is to draw panels that flow well and tell a story. Somewhere, in the last ten years, that's been replaced by blurry, impressionistic art. A reader shouldn't have to look at a panel for an extended period of time to parse out what the image is trying to convey.
I don't find it a coincidence that there hasn't been a hot artist since Michael Turner burst upon the scene. Even Don Newton told a story better than your average current artist.
+1
Turner was amazing. This is still one of the best covers i've ever seen
I'd never seen that cover.
We lost a monster talent.
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You might want to spoiler that. But, it does give some weight to what Whedon said last year:
WARNING POSSIBLE SPOILER DEPENDING ON HOW YOU READ IT
http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=82349
WARNING POSSIBLE SPOILER DEPENDING ON HOW YOU READ IT
Just did sorry
not a problem (thumbs u
wow...I just can't see it man. Howard the duck?! This might backfire.
Once you've sold the audience on a gun toting raccoon and a talking tree, a cigar chomping duck is just a short trip down the road.
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The art is terrible.
The primary job of a comic book artist is to draw panels that flow well and tell a story. Somewhere, in the last ten years, that's been replaced by blurry, impressionistic art. A reader shouldn't have to look at a panel for an extended period of time to parse out what the image is trying to convey.
I don't find it a coincidence that there hasn't been a hot artist since Michael Turner burst upon the scene. Even Don Newton told a story better than your average current artist.
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What did Platt do other than 4 issues of Moon Knight? I remember he did some work at Image on Prophet, but I can't recall him doing any kind of lengthy run. Being the Moon Knight run is over 20 years old now I can see how it might appeal to those who wanted it years ago, but long term I see no future for Platt's body of work.
There was a thread here a while back that linked to an article detailing Platt's time at Liefeld's studio. The thing that struck me was Liefeld recounting being annoyed with Platt's inability to meet a deadline. Rob Liefeld!
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If they didn't intend for the definition to be used then why did they write it so clearly? Anyways I never said Overstreet was the ultimate arbiter of the market. I just gave one example of a pretty straight forward definition from a respected comic book resource to justify the first appearance of a character on a cover in a comic book. That is all. Also the hobby hasn't rejected anything, its just slowly catching on.
Just so people do not accuse me of trying to derail this thread, here is one that's heatin' up
Don't worry about derailing. It's the essence of organic conversation and debate.
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This argument over 608 only further illustrates the confusion surrounding first appearances. This is why the definition clearly states: A first appearance/debut is the first time a character appears anywhere. Insertion into a narrative is not needed, an appearance on a cover is not needed. Though these things may be more desirable to collectors ans sell for many times more based on that desirability they still should not be considered a first appearance.
That is your definition of first appearance, as you've stated many times, and it's correct from a strict dictionary standpoint. However, as comic books are a storytelling medium, what is collected as first appearances is usually character involvement in a narrative, not Previews ads, CSN stories, flyers, coupons or inter-office memos.
Once again, despite the dictionary, if someone calls you 'bro', don't assume they're your brother.
This definition is not a dictionary definition, it comes right outta Overstreet!
It does, indeed.
I seriously doubt, however, that Overstreet foresaw someone using that definition to justify their views that Previews, CSN, promo pamphlets and letter page ads are first appearances. The hobby as a whole has rejected that concept.
And, if you want to embrace Overstreet as the ultimate arbiter of the market, you should load up on Conan 3's. It's scarce.
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...you didn't mention covers though. What more than the cover of a comic, especially in the age of the slab, is representative of the narrative within the pages of a comic? Be it metaphorical, literal, abstract, etc.?
Let me put it another way....In this particular instance, would it really be reasonable to say that 609 is the "first appearance of Hush", when he is right there on the cover of 608 RRP? Just a question ....
-J.
It's a good question. My personal thoughts are several posts above, where I speculate that 619 will see the most attention. I'm not sure how the market will treat this one, but I'd lean toward it being dismissed as simply an image of the character, and not a canonical appearance.
You are right, though, in that this IS the age of the slab.
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Cool concept. Shaggy art.
Reah!!!! Like... wow, Scoob! I'll try a couple of issues!
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Cool concept. Shaggy art.
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This argument over 608 only further illustrates the confusion surrounding first appearances. This is why the definition clearly states: A first appearance/debut is the first time a character appears anywhere. Insertion into a narrative is not needed, an appearance on a cover is not needed. Though these things may be more desirable to collectors ans sell for many times more based on that desirability they still should not be considered a first appearance.
That is your definition of first appearance, as you've stated many times, and it's correct from a strict dictionary standpoint. However, as comic books are a storytelling medium, what is collected as first appearances is usually character involvement in a narrative, not Previews ads, CSN stories, flyers, coupons or inter-office memos.
Once again, despite the dictionary, if someone calls you 'bro', don't assume they're your brother.
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From the narrative, it's clear that Nate was the problem, and I respect ES for not throwing him under the bus, no matter how frustrated he was. I still recall Nate's excuses for not getting a boardie's purchased OA out to him in a reasonable amount of time. If you guys want to rail against someone, I'd suggest NB.
Also, with ES's position in Image, how constructive would it have been to have aired the dirty laundry? To me, it would have been damaging to Image for ES to point fingers. Image has a sterling reputation as a home for indy projects, and I'm sure ES was well aware that publicizing the trouble with the book could have affected that.
Posted a month ago.
As a follow up, in response to Nate's request to 'stop going easy on him', I never went easy on him. But I will now. I admire him for being open and honest, congratulate him and ES for the great six issues they produced, and wish him the best in sorting out his life.
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If I'm reading the posts above correctly, the suggestion is that since Hush appears on the cover of the giveaway to retailers that that issue should be considered a first appearance? I think any book that's not available to the public doesn't really qualify. (Actually, I don't even think that con exclusives that are available for a weekend con the weekend before the official release date should qualify if it's an exclusive of the same issue.)
My guess is that if Hush begins to be widely collected, then 619 will get most of the attention, followed by 609, and then the 608 RRP. Currently, the RRP's price tag is such that you'd really have to be a hardcore Hush collector to want that as an appearance.
The market has been pretty rational in rejecting minor character depictions as 'first appearances', Jimmy Olsen 134 notwithstanding.
Didn't work for long within 3 days she found the new account. 
Bronze age comics that are heating up on eBay...
in Bronze Age Comic Books
Posted
Should've told him it was the 9.8.