InvstmntComcSuply

Found these books in my attic! Please feel free to ask any questions! NOTHING IS IMPLIED.

We have had many new people show up to sell collections with no prior knowledge of comics. If this was a site you had to pay for then I would agree with you.

 

I would simply laugh at anyone who feels they have the right to expect a level of expertise in a "Attic find! Please ask questions" sale by a noob with pics following all the rules of the sales area. Having the right to assume a comic is unrestored is not a rule. If it is then please show me.

You keep bringing up newbs with attic finds, garage sales, etc.

What about the far more common regular boardie who has sold dozens+ of $10-$500 books over the years, the vast majority of which had no mention of restoration whatsoever? He may even say in his new thread "Garage sale! Please feel free to ask any questions!" Apparently, NOTHING IS IMPLIED. So, these sellers have the right to tell buyers to go pound sand when they discover undisclosed restoration?

Books offered for sale with no mention of restoration are implied to be unrestored and complete. By offering a Bats #123 for sale, if I ship a bats #123 with a coupon cutout, the book was not what was offered and the sale has not been completed. If I ship a Bats #123 with restoration, the book was not what was offered and the sale has not been completed. When a sale is incomplete, the buyer can force the return for a full refund, even if returns are not allowed.

This is the industry standard.

If I ship a Bats #123 and the buyer disagrees with the grade, the sale has been completed and any remedy for the buyer is based on my stated terms or whatever the buyer and i can agree to, after the fact.

Anyone who wishes to have other terms should explicitly state such terms in their sales thread eg:

These books are offered "As is"

These books are offered with No restoration guarantee

I know nothing about comic books and you will be getting whatever the hell is in the picture. God help you if there are no pages within the cover, because I sure won't.

"Found these books in my attic! Please feel free to ask any questions! " would not absolve the buyer from the industry standard as far as I am concerned, unless they specifically followed it up with something like the above.

Were grade disagreements the purview of PL discussions?

 

3) if a no return policy is stated and the seller counters a return request with "I stated no returns", what conditions can override that?

 

FTFY

I'm going to a garage sale tomorrow morning at a church where a guy says he has 3000 comics all bagged and boarded and read once. They are his dupes and things he doesn't want anymore. All from 1985+ and a buck a book.

 

I expect to come home with very little. But what the heck.

50% of readers think "Wow, cool, can't wait to hear what you get"

50% of readers think "Loc: Somewhere in middle America"

We are only talking about restoration that was unknown to the seller.

The argument has been over the claim that: Raw books offered for sale are always implied to be unrestored, unless otherwise mentioned by the seller. Furthermore, that this is industry and board standard.

 

I am saying that it is the responsibility of any buyer to ask about the product they are buying. If restoration is important to a buyer then of course they should ask and not assume.

 

As a seller it is simply not possible for me to know what is important to every buyer.

Repeating it doesn't make it true. By definition you are assuming and we both know what happens then. You are talking like it is an industry standard. If it is then you are assuming that you're dealing with someone who is aware of the standard. It's silly to not take the time to ask if it is important to you.

 

It is an industry standard.

And a board standard.

 

It may be an industry standard. It is not a board standard.

Show me a board decision that supported anyone who refused to refund on undisclosed restoration. Disregard extended time frames for the time being as I think they should be addressed separately.

Repeating it doesn't make it true. By definition you are assuming and we both know what happens then. You are talking like it is an industry standard. If it is then you are assuming that you're dealing with someone who is aware of the standard. It's silly to not take the time to ask if it is important to you.

It is an industry standard.

And a board standard.

And of course the end result of your position would be people having a list of questions for every purchase. Which is why it is untenable.

when restoration is not noted, the book is implied to be as manufactured, with only normal wear. No need to assume otherwise.

I would hope that any buyer would ask all pertinent questions about what they're buying. I'll use pressing as an example. Some do not want pressed books and unless the seller had it pressed then it is unlikely they would know whether it had been or not. Some claim they can tell and if something implying it had been was noted on the label then would this example be so black and white?

 

We are talking about restoration.

Are you implying we need to ask if every book is restored prior to purchase?

 

I am saying that it is the responsibility of any buyer to ask about the product they are buying. If restoration is important to a buyer then of course they should ask and not assume.

 

yeah, that does sound kind of dumb ...

 

 

It seemed to contradict your previous response to my post so I quoted for posterity while I pondered.

 

I blame multitasking. It sort of sounded right when I was reading jimjims post, but clearly not after you quoted it. Here is where I was going:

 

 

...... assuming something not stated is a bad idea.

 

Agreed and when restoration is not noted, the book is implied to be as manufactured, with only normal wear. No need to assume otherwise.

 

Fair enough. I simply disagree. If it is important to the buyer then they should ask.

I would say that if it is important to the seller, then he should state that they make no restoration guarantee. Then we can see how that sales thread goes.

I would hope that any buyer would ask all pertinent questions about what they're buying. I'll use pressing as an example. Some do not want pressed books and unless the seller had it pressed then it is unlikely they would know whether it had been or not. Some claim they can tell and if something implying it had been was noted on the label then would this example be so black and white?

We are talking about restoration.

Are you implying we need to ask if every book is restored prior to purchase?

yeah, that does sound kind of dumb ...

 

 

It seemed to contradict your previous response to my post so I quoted for posterity while I pondered.

I blame multitasking. It sort of sounded right when I was reading jimjims post, but clearly not after you quoted it. Here is where I was going:

 

...... assuming something not stated is a bad idea.

Agreed and when restoration is not noted, the book is implied to be as manufactured, with only normal wear. No need to assume otherwise.

yeah, that does sound kind of dumb ...

 

...... assuming something not stated is a bad idea.

Agreed and when restoration is not noted, one assumes the book is as manufactured, with only normal wear

What did the sales thread claim about the book? Assuming you are buying an unrestored book is just that, an assumption.

I disagree.

Raw books are always implied to be unrestored, unless otherwise mentioned by the seller.

the batman 19 i put it in the grading forum I think it is 4.5 or so. no resto.

 

My worry is people claiming color touch years after the fact. I would hate to think anyone would do this but imagine if someone bought a super hot movie first appearance right now and the market plummets 2 years from now. They could easily do a little color touch themselves and submit it so they could recoup their $3-4,000 dollar loss in value.

But this is also my concern for 1+ year returns claiming hidden restoration.

I agree that the amount of the refund requested is fair.

 

Michael made a reasonable request as far as what he wanted, but what if someone else wanted the entire amount?

Does anyone else think we might need some small addendums to the rules?

Count me in with the rest who think that Rupp's request of less than 20% of the sale price was within reason, even 13 months after the sale.

Do we just not require any sort of proof anymore? The buyer came here and explained in his last dealings, his shipping costs were lower. Heck, Sharon was a previous seller to the guy and explained that her costs were lower because she had private insurance.

 

Maybe the guy didn't know any of this? The PMs would shed a light on a lot of questions.

What proof do you need if there is no denial?

Why should the buyer's bad assumptions protect him from his acceptance?

Minus proof, why should I take either side's word? Just post the PMs. without that it's not enough.

Because the buyer did not contradict the sellers summary.

As an aside, buyers regularly have no idea how much it costs to ship things.

Often the shipping cost is built into the cost of the item "FREE shipping!!!!"

Often purchases over $250 are shipped without signature confirmation (extremely costly on international shipments)

Domestically many nonqualifying items are shipped by inexpensive media mail

Many non-professional sellers also have no idea how much shipping costs and unintentionally end up subsidizing shipping, further distorting buyers perceptions

If I give an estimate for international shipping that a buyer agrees to, and it ends up being accurate, is it really my fault if the buyer later states "but I get shipments from the US all the time for 1/2 of your estimate"?