Mokiguy

Now before you answer, read my explanation. I also collect Morgan and Peace Silver Dollars. And certain coins are more in demand and bring higher prices than others. Every coin is worth more if it is in better condition, but assuming condition is equal, the reason some Morgan or Peace dollars are worth more than others is rarity. For instance I'll just use a random year say 1881. There were 4 US mints that made Morgan silver dollars that year. The San Francisco mint made 12,760,000 Morgan dollars that year, and the 1881 P (Philadelphia mint) made 9.163,000, both are considered to be common year and mint Morgan dollars and are worth the least. The New Orleans mint made 5,708,000 Morgan dollars that year and they are worth more than the P and S mint mark Morgans because fewer were made. The last mint was Carson City Nevada, and they only made 296,000 Morgans that year and they are worth the most of all. If it were graded like a comic, an 8.5 Carson City would be worth about 5 times as much as a New Orleans Morgan and about 10 times what a San Francisco or Philadelphia 1881 Morgan is worth. Again, assuming condition is equal, value is all about scarcity. So all that above brings me to this. I've looked at comic runs and though they have fluctuated over time depending on the popularity of the comic, the runs stayed pretty much the same month to month as long as a particular comic was still popular. If an issue printed 600,000 copies in September, then give or take a few issues, the October and November issues were also printed at the same rate, about 600,000 comics. And that's the rub ........ let's say that a new character was introduced in the October issue. Now that issue may be considered a Key issue and command not just 10 but perhaps 100 times the value of the September issue or the November issue even though each month 600,000 copies were printed. And that's what I don't get. Not only coins but many other collectables command higher values based upon scarcity, how many whatever were originally produced ........ not so comics. So if any of you want to comment, please do because I really don't get it.

Make one yourself. That's what I have done for my comics and my coins and my wife's book collection. I used Microsoft Excel to make a spreadsheet database. It's really pretty easy and you can make it as simple or as complicated as you like. As you can see, for each entry (comic) I only include the name, the issue, issue date, my estimated grade, Comics PriceGuide.com, Overstreet and Notsomania values, and the average of the 3 as of the date I bought or entered the comic into the database. What I originally paid for the comic and that also includes any shipping I paid so that my all in cost is accurate, and any notes about the book. Regrade just means that I looked at at it at least twice, to be somewhat sure I had the grade correct, or as close to correct as a schmuck like me could do. I also realize that the values in the real world will be less than the average values for the 3 grading sites I use, but it's only as a check against me paying way to much for any comic. I like to see that I paid 50% or less than the average values of the 3 services. Usually I do but sometimes I've paid a bit more than I should have. Here's an image of a small section of Superboy in my database. The blanks are a couple of books that I bought but haven't entered yet into the database.

I imagine it's sort of like asking, why would anyone worry about how much tread is left on your tires, when you aren't planning on going to the tire shop anyway. If you aren't going to get new tires, why care about the tread on the ones you have. And I didn't say anything about CGC standards anyway ......... just standards. I mean without something or someones standards, how could you grade anything?

I only collect raw comics that I will never have graded, but for my own collection and data base, I try to grade them as accurately as I am able. So my question is if the same imperfection were on front or back, are they looked at as the same or is more weight given to it if it's on the front vs the back. And if so, how much. For instance a small 1/8" chip out of the edge, same front and back? 4 or 5 color breaking spine creases, same front and back? Staple wear shows worse on the back than the front, does that matter or is it all the same? I would think that front cover wear would be more heavily scrutinized along with the accompanying grade reductions than the rear, but I don't know and that's why I am asking. Thanks ........

I tend to agree with the above assessments except for the time frame. I think this price/value progression will continue with books that were issued up until about sometime in 1976. Two things happened in 1975 and 1976, and then a third began to creep in over the next few years that really changed the dynamic. 1975 and 1976 were the last years for the 25 cent comic for DC and Marvel. And mid 1976 was the first year when bar codes were first adopted and placed on comic book covers. There is a certain nostalgia element about being able to buy a comic for a quarter or less. that is hard to quantify, but that was the way it was for nearly 40 years. From the early 40's to the mid 70's, for 10 to 25 cents you could buy yourself a comic book, and another 5 or 10 cents bought a candy bar and you had yourself an afternoon. I tend to think that the bar code also made comic books feel sort of modern and rather than a nostalgic relic from the past, and that didn't help either. But I think an even bigger change was the tone of the comics themselves. In the 40's, 50's, 60's, and till the mid 70's, super hero comics were sort of campy, corny, but little by little the violence and imagery became more graphic, more violent, sinister. And much like movies and television, super hero type comics followed suit. Compare the early Superman or Batman TV shows of the 50's and 60's or even the Superman movies of the 70's to today's Marvel blockbusters. Or the recent "Joker" movie compared to some of the earlier Superman, Batman nemesis like Lex Luther or the Penguin. That movie was so viciously violent, we didn't finish watching it at home but switched to something else. The innocence is gone. But anyway, I believe it is the cover price and the campy and corny innocence that left comics in the mid 70's that will be the defining line of where the progression of values will stop, so I have perhaps 5 more years worth of books I will be collecting, up to mid 76. Of the 500+ comics I now own, none have a barcode.

I don’t really expect any psychics or people with extraordinary clairvoyant abilities to answer, but just folks with opinions will do. I keep a pretty precise database of my collections, and as I was entering some current values based upon a few pricing sources, I happened to notice a fairly consistent year by year price progression for common non key issue books. I almost exclusively collect DC super Hero type books and have accumulated over 500 silver to early bronze age Lois lane, Jimmy Olsen, Superboy, Superman, Aquaman, World’s Finest, Brave and the Bold, Action and Adventure Comics, as well as some more in demand titles like Wonder Woman, Batman, The Flash, Green Lantern, Detective and others etc. I’m cheap and so I don’t have a single key issue amongst my collection, some better than others and everything is raw, nothing slabbed and graded. I also realize that real world sales values are not always reflected in price guide values, but one does follow the other, and so the expectation would be that when price guides rise, real sales prices will also rise. OK, that was a lot of build up and I will get to my question soon, but first an example and as evidence that you can comment on and about. I will be consistent and use common 6.0 non key Action Comics since I have a few, pricing will be averages rather than to the dollar and cents, and I will use only one guide, Comics Priceguide.com, but the progression will be similar for others like Overstreet or Nostomania or others for my evidence example ........... and question. 1972/1974 $2 to $3 1970/1971 $6 to $7 1968/1969 $12 to $13 1966/1967 $15 to $16 1965 $21 to $22 1964 $28 to $29 1963 $40 to $41 Well I could go further back, but I think this is enough to frame my question. Whether or not those are real world prices or real world is only half or less …….. none the less, the progression is dramatic. Looks to be about 1,500% over 10 years for common non key issue comics. I wish my stock portfolio did that. So then, do you believe that this progression will continue ……… in other words, in 10 years will 1972 issues be around 1,500% higher than they are today, or has something changed, or will change enough to stop this or significantly slow it down?

Curious as to what the community thinks of mending tissue. First of all let me start by saying I collect raw, and generally non key issue DC silver age (also some early pre bar code) bronze comics for my own enjoyment, and I never intend to have any professionally graded or for that matter probably ever sold. So none of this is about high dollar books or investment. But with that being said, some day I'm going to kick the bucket and someone will inherit my collection and I'm curious as to whether I'd be helping or hurting my collection. Out of the 500+ collection I have accumulated so far, I have about a dozen that have either a cover detached at one or both staples. So on these covers that have gotten a bit ragged around the staples, ragged enough to detach, I was thinking that if I carefully folded and ironed out the ragged parts and put a 1/2 inch wide strip of mending tape only along the inside of the cover, then removing the staples and re-attaching the covers would be a nearly invisible repair and would make an older comic with a ragged detached cover kind of whole again. And that leads to my question: how does the community look at repairs such as this, and if these were more valuable books that would someday be graded, how will third party TPG's look at this?

I found this very interesting. Looking at eBay listings for books to add to my low budget collection, I ran across a book I don't have ........ Superman #261. 20 cent cover price, Feb 1972, and comics price guide says it is just a run of the mill issue and worth $5.04 in 6.0 ungraded condition, ComicBookRealm has a 6.0 at $7.20, and Nostomania at $33.20, and yet almost all instances of this book being offered at eBay auctions are listed at $40. to $200. ............... and people are buying ungraded copies in various conditions at those prices. Sure, it's a racy cover but what of it? So can a key issue be created because people are willing to pay up for a racy picture? Here's an example of a a few that sold recently, one even calls it a "key" issue .................

I guess I'm just a simple man with simple pleasures, and before I go on with my spiel, I should say that of the nearly 500 silver age DC's I now own, none are graded, and I like it that way. But with that being said, here is my thought process that brought on this post from me this morning. I have a difficult time understanding why somebody would rather have say a 2.0 ratty but original book over a 6 or 7 restored if the restoration is so good that only an expert would ever notice? I get it that most folks wouldn't want to see amateur restoration on their comic that's noticeable to anyone, but if done in such a professional manner that in all respects it looks UN-restored or even UN-conserved, then why not? I realize that it must be a real bummer sending in a book to CGC and then getting back the dreaded "PURPLE LABEL OF DEATH" ....... eek!!!!! So if you sent it in and it took an expert eye with whatever forensics they employ to determine that it has been restored, why should that matter enough for them to give it the death label. I've been watching YouTube videos on comic restoration/conservation, and it seems to be a game being played where the restorer/con-server tries to do a good enough job on whatever they are doing to the book that it gets past the graders. So what does that mean? Well to me it seems to say that there are some graded books that people own that have been restored or conserved and it was good enough to fool the graders, and it was good enough to fool you, after all you own it and are none the wiser and only the original con-server/restorer knows. Like that old commercial from the 60's for Clairol hair color that asked, "does she or doesn't she, only her hair dresser knows for sure" And that gets me back to my original thought about buying a nice conserved/restored vs a known original but low grade. Perhaps it's money that's the culprit. I imagine that if you are buying books as an investment and intend to have them professionally graded, and are then surprised by that purple label, it very well could matter. Maybe because I collect for the pure enjoyment and financial gain from the books I like to buy has little to do with my fun little hobby. I have no intention of ever getting any of mine graded .................... and perhaps that's why I don't completely understand.

I recently acquired a decent 1962 World's Finest issue. I think it will grade out at 4.5 or 5.0 ....... but I discovered that the original owner (I assume) wrote in ink their first and last name in the top and bottom margins of the first page. I'm not looking for an overall grade here or I would have posted this in "Buddy can you spare a grade". I'm just curious about something like this, especially if it's not in a high grade book. Would it affect the grade at all as a 4.5 or 5.0?

So this morning I was wondering about comic issue print runs for silver age books. I found that it's a tough search to find accurate answers to print runs, and best I could find was generalities, but consensus seems to say that average print runs for a single silver age DC or Marvel was 200,000 to 500,000 issues. So that got me to thinking about Key issues and Grails. At the time of publishing an issue, there would have been no reason to publish and more or less issues of a single book because it contained Lois Lane being black for that issue, or the first appearance of a character like the Batman's Poison Ivy issue, or the Fantastic Four Black Panther issue, or many others. If the Fantastic Four #51 had a run of say 300,000, then they probably printed 300,000 Fantastic Four #52 as well. But Fantastic Four #52 is worth 10 times as much as Fantastic Four #51 because it has the first appearance of Black Panther. OK, I'll get to the point here. I have collected Morgan and Peace silver dollars a lot longer than I've been collecting comics, but what I know about Silver Dollars and most coins for that matter, is that rarity is what drives the value of one year or mint mark above another assuming condition is the same. Low mintage coins bring higher values than high mintage runs ....... makes perfect sense to me. But comics seem to be driven purely by speculative demand since print runs are virtually the same for a common or key issue, and that makes no sense. Well that's what was rattling around in my brain this morning.

I appreciate the answer, and think you are correct, but I wonder if they didn't mean all dents in the cover, not just those from the shipping and baling process. I suppose that the whole point of pressing a comic is to remove bends, creases, wrinkles and dents and possibly bale marks.

I use this program to help me grade, and there is this one area where I just don't exactly know what it is that they are calling "dent and bale marks". I tried googling to no help, and the picture they include is too small to help. So I'm hoping someone can explain "dent and bale marks" to me in plain English. Thanks ......

Well first of all you will need to learn basic grading. Grading is subjective and and no two people will see a book exactly the same. But since you want to know what your collection is worth, you need to be brutally honest about the grades you assign to each book you own. I've gone through this with both coins and comics. When I first started out with each, I was over grading. I imagine I was trying to make myself feel good about my abilities at getting bargains. After a while I began to re grade what I had to better reflect the true grade as others might see them. Even at that, you'll never know for sure, but at least you're being honest with yourself and your collection. There are programs out there that will allow you to build a database for your collection. I chose to do it myself on my laptop and made a database in Excel. I'll add a picture of part of it. Once I have a comic graded, and after bagging and boarding, I check three price guides. I have the latest copy of the Overstreet comic price guide. I also use on line ComicspriceGuide.com, and Nostomania.com. I combine all three values that they say a raw comic is worth, divide that by three to establish an average. And I check that against eBay to see what others are asking for a particular comic, and also what they have recently actually sold for. That's difficult because I find that many sellers over estimate grades on eBay and so to get an actual comparison to my own comic, I need to look at each recent sold comic to see if they really are a let's say Fine/Very Fine as the seller says or if it's just a Very Good+/Fine- or worse. I find that the comics I have will generally be worth anywhere from that average value in my database to maybe only 50% of that value.That's what I do. I have no intention of selling my collection, perhaps just a few here and there that I have doubles of, and I realize that over time prices will change but I do all this to establish a value at the time I purchase the comic against what I paid for it. And I'm honest with myself about what I paid as well. I always include shipping in the cost of the comic, because that is part of what I paid for it. I usually buy in bulk so as to spread the shipping across many books to keep it down. Well I hope that helps you establish a value to your collection. Just don't get your hopes up too high since most of what you listed is pretty new. As an example I looked up just one of the comics you listed, the 1987 series Flash #32. ComicsPriceGuide.com as a 6.0 at .95 cents. Overstreet doesn't even list a price at a 6.0, but has a 9.2 at $5, so I'll assume that a 6.0 isn't any higher than a dollar. Nostomania has a 6.0 at $2.15 ....... so the average is $1.36, and since it's not that old, you can probably estimate the real value at 25% to 50% of that $1.36. Below is a small piece of my database as an example.

I'm curious as to how you came to have such a vast and possibly valuable collection. From how you pose your questions, it appears that it was not you, but rather these were inherited from somebody that did have this love of comics, like many folks here, and you've inherited this collection and are concerned with their value. So I think that the first place to start is not their worth, but to consider who it was that amassed this collection. Try to view things through his or her eyes, look at each book and try to see what they saw, and perhaps then you'll learn to love both the comics and the collector more for what they are and who they were, rather than the value that will have less importance. That's my philosophical 2 cents for this morning.

Yes, I understand your rational for your own books, and in essence that's what I am trying to do with mine. But your "would be could be except for ........" is exactly the point I'm trying to get away from. I am sure we will never know exactly how much a partially or fully detached centerfold or cover will lower a grade, but as in the example I pasted from that Youtube video, it is a book with two complete centerfold pages detached and it still got a "blue" 6.5, whereas Overstreet says 2.5 max for a single centerfold detached. 2.5 for one detached centerfold vs 6.5 for two completely detached center pages ........ that's not even close, and that's what my original post was questioning.

So do you think that he made up fake CGC slabs for the video then? Here's a screen shot from within the video showing a 6.5 grade with two centerfolds detached ......

I grade my own comics for my own satisfaction. I've never sold a comic but work hard and trying to get the grade close for my own comic database. Up until the other day, and because I have been using an on line grading tool along with the Overstreet Grading Guidelines, I never graded a comic with a detached centerfold even at only one staple above a 4.5 .............. that's how Overstreet has it ........ 4.5 max for one staple, 2.5 max completely detached. And then I watched a video of some long time collector on YouTube and he had a cheat sheet, and on his cheat sheet he has comics grading as high as 9.0 with one staple detached and 7.0 with complete centerfold detachment. He also showed CGC slabs in the video that graded as high as 7.5s with noted detached centerfolds. I understand the rest of the book matters, but have I been wrong all this time automatically downgrading to 4.5 with one staple and max of 2.5 with a completely detached centerfold? And then there's the detached covers .......... his cheat sheet max 6.0 one staple, 4.0 completely detached. Overstreet has it at max 4.5 one staple, max 2.5 completely detached. So what gives?

Was wondering if anybody has any experience with this stuff. I collect DC Silver age books and have a few that are fairly nice, but they may have a detached cover or centerfold. Reading about the product, it says that it is used for paper repair. So have any used this stuff? Does it show if used sparingly like in a fine line, and is it completely invisible when dry? And if you want to comment on the merits of restoring, you're welcome to do so but right or wrong is not what I'm asking about. These are my own low dollar books, I'm beyond retired and so will most likely die with them. I mean it's possible that I might want to sell them someday, but at present that's not what my plan is and so restoring them is purely for my own enjoyment. So anyone familiar with the product and process?

I think I placed this in the wrong forum and would delete it here if I could. I am posting this in the restoration forum.

Was wondering if anybody has any experience with this stuff. I collect DC Silver age books and have a few that are fairly nice, but they may have a detached cover or centerfold. Reading about the product, it says that it is used for paper repair. So have any used this stuff? Does it show if used sparingly like in a fine line, and is it completely invisible when dry? And if you want to comment on the merits of restoring, you're welcome to do so but right or wrong is not what I'm asking about. These are my own low dollar books, I'm beyond retired and so will most likely die with them. I mean it's possible that I might want to sell them someday, but at present that's not what my plan is and so restoring them is purely for my own enjoyment. So anyone familiar with the product and process?

Curious to hear from folks that have both and what they think of each. Is one better than the other in your opinion. Would just like to hear what ever you have to say about these two books.

No, I didn't see anything that I would think is much more than average run of the mill 1960's DC's. It's a shame since you put a lot of work into those books to display them that none of them are key issue books worth a mint. But though not valuable, those types of DC's happen to be what I collect. I think I'm trying to relive my youth. Most folks are into Marvel these days, but I grew up on these exact same DC's that you have and are asking about. Don't know what your plans are but I'm interested if the price can be worked out. Let me know.

Superman and friends, that's all I ever read, guess I was pretty lucky nobody ever caught me!

Apparently some of you misunderstood what I said. I thought I was clear. There is discussion about bad restorations, and I said cleaning or restorations that can't even be detected by the average person. So bad restorations is not at all what I wanted to discuss. Also it was said by some that an un restored car is worth more than a restored car. That really is a matter of debate, since it's just about impossible to find a 60 year old un restored car in factory or showroom condition. You might be able to find a pretty nice 57 chevy, but never as nice as a perfectly restored 57 chevy. So if you were to use the same sort of scale on a car as on comics, your near perfect 57 chevy unrestored would be a 7.5 to 8.5 and your restored 57 would come in at a 9.8. I get it that having a untouched 7.5 comic over a restored 7.5 comic might be what you want. But if you could have a 9.8 that was restored so well that you couldn't tell, why does it matter? That was the point. In coins I have seen some that you could examine a hundred ways to Sunday, and never see a cleaning that a TPG says is there. So the value is reduced because they said it was cleaned on the label. That's my point. If it takes forensics to see a defect, then why does it matter.